RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: andacala on Thursday 11 December 08 13:34 GMT (UK)
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Arthur was supposedly born in 1831 (where unknown). There is conflicting reports have him being born in New York, as well as Devon, England. There is no record of him immigrating to Australia. He married Sarah Bull in Launceston, Tasmania, in August 1853. Arthur & Sarah had 13 children, with their first child being born in Victoria in 1854. Arthur died in Brunswick in 1905. If anybody can shed some light on Arthur's history up to the time of arriving in Australia, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Do you have birth certificates for any of the children of Arthur and Sarah - these may give the birthplace of Arthur (or is this where the conflicting information arises) - if he supplied such info.
Have you checked with the Tas archives for any information on immigration - there seems to be very little online.
I notice there are no parents listed on the death index - did the death certificate indicate length of time in Australia?
Trish
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As per Trisha question on births for any of the children in Victoria
Here is the information you can expect to see on a Victoria Birth Certificate
s
Date and place of birth;
name of child and whether present or not;
name of parents (including mother's maiden name);
occupation of parents; ages and birthplace of parents; date and place of marriage of parents;
previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; names of witnesses;
date and place of registation.
you can order and download on line from the Victoria BDM
It is best if you have the registration numbers other wise you have to pay .99 to search for it.
.
http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home
JEnn
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I have several birth certificates of Arthurs children as well as Arthur's death certificate and this is where the conflict arises.
On one of the children's birth certificates it indicates he was born in Devon. Have been unable to find any evidence to confirm this. On his death certificate it indicates he was born in USA. Again no evidence to support this. On other birth certificates his origin of birth is listed as unknown.
I have been unable to find anything through immigration or passenger lists. The first record I can locate of him is marrying Sarah Bull in Tasmania in 1853.
Folklore is that he was very much the blacksheep and was running away from something. Nobody can confirm this.
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Hi,
Have you asked on the Devon County board for someone who may look up a census record [1851] for you?
It is an unusual name and may just jump out if he was born there.
Sue
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Sue,
I had a bit of a look about but nothing leaps out at me except of a Charles born 1828 in Yorkshire on the 1841 and 1851 census living with his Uncle
Jenn
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Hi Sue,
Sorry but forgot to mention, I have already checked the 1851 census for Devon. There is no Wemyss listed.
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Hi ,
Sorry to seem to be harping on, but the Devon Resources board on Rc has a great listing for records of many regions including Parish Records .
I have, in the past, had a lot of support and help from the chatters in Devon.
May I ask if you have requested any other leads from Devonshire?
Sue
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I have a couple of relatives with Wemyss as a given name - probably in relation to the parish in Fife in Scotland. I would have thought it was a Scottish name - has this ever been investigated? Do you know what church the family belonged to? This may help.
I do understand the problems when different documents give conflicting information. (my father's Irish ancestors changed their place of birth quite often). The information supplied while living, tends to be more correct than on death certificates - unless the living person wished to hide something. It does seem as if Arthur was unsure of his birthplace, which will make it very difficult to find any information :-\
Trish
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Hello Sue and Trish.
Sue - Thanks for your advice regarding the Devon look Ups. I have put a request in. Trish - I agree with you that Wemyss is a Scottish surname.
His marriage certificate states he was born in New York, circa 1830, as does several of his childrens birth certificates. His death certificate states he was born in Devonshire, England. It was alleged that he came out to Australia in 1847 aboard the Joseph Soames, but there is no evidence of this on the passenger lists.
Rumours were that he was trying to run away or hide from something, but this has never been confirmed or proven, however appears likely.
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Hello all
I have Wemyss as a given name for a couple of my ancestors commemorating a friend whose family who lived near Portsmouth and in Gloucestershire in the early 1800s. The name is certainly more common in Scotland but don't discount the Devon idea - for example on IGI is the marriage of a Francis WEMYSS in Tiverton Devon 1801. Obviously the 1801 marriage is way too early for it even to have been Arthur's parents.
Interestingly on IGI using their "All Resources" search there is mention of your Arthur and Sarah submitted by a lady whose address is given as Kingsville, Victoria. (Maybe it's you!!) Anyhow, worth a look.
Cheers, Judith :-\
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I would tend to believe the New York - it seems to have been mentioned alot & on the marriage - perhaps his family went from Devon to NY when he was young. Is there any sign of a family at the right time going to NY?
Trish
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It was alleged that he came out to Australia in 1847 aboard the Joseph Soames, but there is no evidence of this on the passenger lists.
Now that rang a bell with me from some of us RCers helping a chap in England who was doing a paper on the Parkhurst Boys and sure enough this particular vessell was chartered to bring Parkhurst boys to Australia.
There is a lot of information on the nett but this link proves interesting reading
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~russellhudson/hud-jsomes.htm
no Wemyss on the register but he could have changed his name
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park9.html
Jenn
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Hello Jenn,
Thankyou very much for your last email. The picture is becoming more clearer, but at the same time raises more questions than answers. I live two minutes from Pt Henry in Geelong, so I will follow up this information via the Geelong Advertiser.
A lot of his descendants live in Geelong.
Your email may explain why we cannot locate the chap in any official records and his cageyness. I attended the Genealogical Society of Victoria today & they suggested I check the South Australian Shipping records as well as records at NLA. I will also follow up Trish's suggestion of New York again, although initial searches revealed nothing.
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I am also trying to locate this gentleman. He is a ancestor of my husband that we have been trying to locate for a number of years without success.
I have most of the information that has been mentioned.
With regards to the Joseph Somes, I was wondering if he was with the regiment on board? I haven't look into this. Not sure where to start?
I will be going to Tasmania in a few weeks and am hoping to do some research in regards to Sarah Bull, Arthur Charles's wife.
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With the Devon link - a lot of the Devonshire records are not on the IGI, so that could make it harder.
Interestingly, in 1841 there is a Thomas Weyms, 13, and an Ann, 9, children residing in Aubin's Norwood School of Industry in Croydon.
There is a description of this place here: http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Norwood/Norwood.shtml
A Thomas Weyms died in Croydon in 1842.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park9.html
- here's a list of the Parkhurst boys on the Joseph Somes in 1847. Don't see any obvious records that would be him.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=42
- Arthur Weymiss, aged 34, headed to Lauceston in February 1853. Could this be him?
http://www.search.fibis.org/
comes up with a Lieut Wemyss, of the 32nd Foot, on the ship Joseph Somes in 1849. Whether that's a complete red herring or not... :-\
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Thanks for your email. Both links you refer to, ie. re: the Joseph Somes in 1849 (I am unable to access the link) and the arrival in 1853 definitely fits in the time frame as he was married in August 1853. The discrepancy is his age listed on the PROV site for the passenger to Tasmania is 34. His marriage certificate in August has his age at 23. However, nothing regarding man has been straight forward.
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According to Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters site - the Joseph Somes left Hobart on 5th June, 1846 for Port Jackson (arrived 11th June). On board were 120 rank and file of 67th Regiment, 19 women, 14 boys and 13 girls. (no names are given). This would have been after the ship landed its convict passengers in Hobart.
The 1847 voyage of the Joseph Somes had members of the 65th Regiment that were proceeding to New Zealand.
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I have just found this website (which is wonderful), and want to make contact with those of you trying to find info on Arthur Charles Wemyss. ACM is my great, great grandfather and I have been searching for years for information on his real birth date, place, and actual arrival date in Australia. Is he from Devon or is he from New York? Did he arrive on the Joseph Somes in 1847? Was he a convict? Is Wemyss his real name? Lots of unanswered questions about this mysterious character.
ANDACALA, have you made any progress since you began this post? Look forward to hearing from you and anyone else for that matter who might bring this mystery to resolution.
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The Australian National Library digitised newspaper site has two accounts of Arthur Charles WEMYSS being charged with forgery in Geelong in 1858 - found not guilty!
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8833573?searchTerm=arthur+wemyss
Judith
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Really interested to see all info on searching for Arthur Charles. He is my mother's grandfather and she and two of her siblings are still alive. They are the children of Arthur and Sarah's son Daniel. My mother remembers conversations with her eldest sister who had been sent to live with Sarah as a young woman and Sarah told her the black sheep story. Unfortunately she wouldn't say what. I've found a shipping record out of Auckland for a Mrs Wemyss and son landing in Sydney and two days later boarding a ship for Tasmania. Scant detail but have a lead on further info, so will post again when I've tracked that down.
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Hello Sparkles2
Thanks for your email. I haven't followed up Arthur much over the past 12 months, although I do plan to.
Just to recap, Arthur's marriage certificate states he was born in NY, which I believe is a complete red herring. When Arthur was admitted to hospital towards the end of his life, his hospital admittance records state that he claimed to have been in Australia for over 50 years and that he arrived aboard the Joseph Somes. Bearing in mind that at that late stage of his life he was suffering from the ravages of alcoholism and senility, so for him to have stated the Joseph Somes must have meant something to him. The Joseph Somes arrived in Point Henry, Geelong in 1847.
The Joseph Somes was a ship that brough out the Parkhurst exiles. Juvenile inmates who were provided with training in a trade and then sent to Australia in exchange for freedom.
It is known that Arthur, that Arthur has claimed to have been a carpenter & he spent some time in Geelong before going to Tasmania, where he married Sarah, and then returning to the Geelong region. He was charged and acquitted of fraud in 1857-8 wherein it was alleged that he claimed to have paid his alcohol/bar tab, but the pub owner claimed that no such payment was ever received. It has been alleged that Arthur had an ongoing relationship with the law (the wrong side). It is also alleged that he did not have a relationship with his children at the time of his death, and that he was continually walking out on them. By this stage Sarah, was a storekeeper in Ballarat.
Regards,
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An Arthur Charles Wemyss signed an affidavit on 10th december 1906 concerning the will of Eleanor Edelsten. In that affidavit, Wemyss records himself as a farmer of Carapooee, which is a small area south of St Arnaud, Victoria. The affidavit can be inspected and photographed at the Victoria Records office.
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Hi Moolerr
Thank you for the information. Our Arthur Charles Wemyss died in 1905 - so this is probably his son, also an Arthur Charles Wemyss.
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"....He married Sarah Bull in Launceston, Tasmania, in August 1853"
"....His marriage certificate states he was born in New York, circa 1830"
Do you mean that the Tasmanian marriage certificate has his birthplace stated ?
Tasmanian marriage certificate in 1853 would not have provision for birthplace so I wonder why this would be recorded.
"....His death certificate states he was born in Devonshire, England".
"....On his death certificate it indicates he was born in USA"
Can you clarify which birthplace is on the death certificate please. Also does it name the informant, if not, is wife Sarah still alive at the time of his death.
Where there is different information on the birth certificates for fathers birth place, who is the informant. Is there any pattern here ie. when mother is the informant, or when father is the informant?.
On the marriage certificate for 1853 in Launceston, who are the witnesses.
Among the thirteen children are there any less common names or unusual spelling of names?
When he is admitted to hospital the information might not have been provided by Arthur, depending on what sort of condition he was in. Is Arthur the informant.
If Arthur wanted to be evasive about his origins then it will be hard to know the truth. But if he just had a adventurous life, with much storytelling, then his audience might have selective memory in repeating his story...for BDM certificates, for example, where he is not the informant. So the source of these details might be as significant as the substance.