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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Fdgl65 on Wednesday 10 December 08 14:11 GMT (UK)
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I am attempting to search for my mother in law's family records. On her birth certificate it says mother, Violet Cox, father, Henry Victor Short. In 1935 (the year she was born, Hastings Municipal Hospital) they were living at 19 St Paul's Road, St Leonard's On Sea and then lived in Brighton (near the railway station). She remembers her father was a soldier during WW2.
My mother in law was evacuated to Yorkshire in 1941 with her 2 brothers, 1 of whom she lost trace of, although she thinks he might have moved to Scotland. She remembers staying at a children's home on Belvedere Road, Bridlington before being sent to Steeton in Yorkshire. Her family never claimed her back after the war so I don't know if her mother was a civilian casualty in Brighton or not. Her father died in the late 1960s as her brother, Ernest George, was able to find him and he attended the funeral. Unfortunately he died in January this year and I never got the chance to ask him any questions about him obtaining a copy of my mother in law's birth certificate in 2001.
My mother in law remembers other brothers and 1 sister: Reginald and Percy (twins), David (b about 1933), and Mary (became a nurse, b about 1939). I think all their surnames might have been Cox, and not Short, as Henry and Violet do not appear to have ever been married.
I have searched Free BMD and Ancestry with no luck whatsoever and cannot pin down birth or death records for any members of the family.
Any advice or help on this family would be greatly appreciated :)
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Welcome to Rootschat & especially the Sussex pages.
Such a sad story! As you are looking for possible living persons you have to be careful as to how you go about this.
I take it you do have a copy of your mother-in-laws birth certificate but are looking for evidence of her brothers & sisters?
I did find on the Commonwealth War Graves site http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp
an entry for Violet Emily Cox died 23/5/1943, Hastings County. Age 32 daughter of Frederick William & Emily Cox of 53 Belmont Rd. Died at Swan Hotel, High St. This might be your mother-in-laws mother. It might be of interest to contact one of the Hastings newspapers to see if they have an archive to find out what actually happened at the Swan Hotel.
Have you checked the FULL indexes for births at Ancestry in your search for her siblings?
Our Sussex moderator, Chris 1066Land, is a Hastings expert so you might like to 'speak' to him concerning the Swan Hotel,
PS. Just found this http://www.victoriaseymour.com/ww2/index.html scroll to the bottom & you'll find a small piece about the bomb on the Swan Hotel
jane
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Hi Jane
Thanks for the very quick reply :)
I have seen the birth certificate but do not have a copy myself. It's not so much my mother in law's siblings I am searching for but what happened to her mother and father and why she wasn't returned to her family when the war ended.
I have no idea how my Uncle in law found the entry of birth for his sister back in 2001 and I am kicking myself that I came to search for my husband's maternal family after his uncle died and not before :'( I am sure Uncle George could have shed so much light on the story because he actually went to see his father sometime in the late 1960s. Oh well....
The entry you've found on CWGC is very interesting and the lady appears to be the right age so I will check that out :)
I have checked for COX births every which way I can think of on both Ancestry and Free BMD but with their births being after 1925 I am aware that a lot of birth records are not yet online.
I am determined to find my husband's grandparents and what happened to them and I may find more information once the 1911 census is released to the public - only 4 years to wait lol
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not as long as 4 years ...
starts being released in PIECE number order next year ......
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/searchthearchives/1911census.htm
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That is good news as I am researching my family tree as well as my husbands and my grandparents were both born about 1911 ;)
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It's going to be hard without a marriage certificate to prove that Violet Cox, partner to Henry Short is the same one as Violet Emily who was killed in Hastings, 1943. Although I have a gut feeling it is your mother-in-law's mother. There seems to be a connection with Hastings as this Violet Emily has parents in Hastings in 1943. Your Violet had your mother-in-law in Hastings Municipal Hospital. As Henry was serving in the army at this time it seems plausible that your Violet, having evacuated all her children to safer places, went to stay with her parents. I wonder why the grandparents didn't take in the children...perhaps they were too elderly?
FreeBMD gives a birth reg. for Violet Emily Cox, Q2 1910, Steyning reg. district (2b 227) Right area & right age.
Have you tried searching for decendants of your mother-in-law's siblings? Maybe they have pieces of the puzzle?
It seems so odd that Henry didn't make an effort to make contact with his children :(
I'm going to scout around & see what I can come up with. One last thought, if you got hold of the death certificate for this Violet Emily who died in 1943, the name of the person who registered the death might tie-in with the Cox family you're looking for. It's a very slim chance it was Henry Short as he was probably overseas & her personal details are contained in the CWGC information so very much a long-shot the certificate will help :-\
jane
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I also have a gut feeling - that the reason why Henry did not claim or contact his children was because he was a married man?....skeletons in the cupboard lol. My mother in law told me that she and her brother were very shocked to find out that her parents weren't married.
One avenue of pursuit I have is to try and get some information regarding Henry's war service record and the 1911 census is going to be of great help when parts of it are published in the New Year as I should be able to track down Violet with her being born c 1910.
Getting a copy of the death certificate for Violet Emily is a good idea.
I posted this query on the Sussex site in the hopes that there might be someone in Brighton who knew of Mary (the sister who became a nurse) in Brighton as she was obviously returned there after evacuation but the other children were not. I am still searching Ancestry and Free BMD for records of any of the siblings etc :)
Oh and the only Henry Victor Short I can find on Free BMD was born in 1887 in Lewes, Sussex - there are NO other records for any counties at all. This would make Henry 52 years old when his last child was born and too old to be a serving soldier in WW2?
Your help is greatly appreciated ;D
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Hi Fdgl65
I've been having a quick look through the birth records (work is VERY slow at the mo) and the children all seem to be listed as Short with mothers maiden name of Cox.
The range of births I have found so far are from 1935 to 1942. I haven't found them all but I've found 4 children who match. I will PM you the details
Glen
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Thank you - the information is spot on :) I will be sending off for all the birth certificates, especially since there is information from 1941 and 1942 on them.
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I've searched the GRO indexes for the death of Henry Victor from 1964-1970 inclusive in the hopes of finding his dob but no success unless it was registered under just plain Henry Short :(
If this Henry Victor born in 1887 in Lewes is the right one he very probably served in the first world war. Ancestry has a short service form for a Henry Victor Short but born about 1883 & in 1915 he was married & a licensed victualar living in Eton Wick, Berks & had one son, Cyril Victor born 1915...which doesn't feel right. He wouldn't have been too old to serve in WWII, he probably served in some capacity on the home front rather than overseas.
You could try posting a message on this site http://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/ to see if any relatives are in the area or put an ad in the Brighton Argus
http://www.theargus.co.uk/
jane
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Thank you for your efforts Jane :)
I think his death must have been registered under plain old Henry Short of which there are far too many to trawl through without more information.
I have sent off for one of the siblings' birth certificates from 1942 (thanks to the info from Glen) and on that it will at least tell me where Henry Victor and Violet were living and what occupation Henry had at the time :)
Thank you for the link to Brighton and Hove. I will presently ask on there if anyone knew of the family.
Thanks to Glen's information it now makes sense that the reason why some of the siblings weren't returned to their family after the war was because they were using their mother's maiden name of Cox instead of their registered birth names of Short.
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Just a couple of thoughts.
The 1887 Henry Victor Short might be the father :-\
Do you have more details about the places your mother-in-law stayed at in Yorkshire? If it was a children's home & it still exists maybe they have documents from that period or they are in a local records centre.....might be worth exploring!
Do you think that the reason why the children were not returned to their father or immediate family was because of the surname? Surely, when these children were evacuated there was full documentation?
Let us know what new information you get from the birth certificate, perhaps together we can take this further :)
jane
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Hi Jane
My mother in law was evacuated to Bridlington. She says it was a children's home on Belvedere Road. I have googled that location and the children's home is now the golf club called Golf Links House so I don't think they will have any of the records from that time?
The children were split up when they got to Yorkshire. They were all fostered in the local area and unfortunately that is a dead end even though I know where she lived as her foster family are long gone (my mother in law is 73). Her older brother, David, apparently went to Scotland and she lost all trace of him.
You would think there would be documentation in order that the children were returned to their family but when I ask her about it she believes that her parents didn't claim them back because they didn't want them. I would like to find out otherwise as I think it is so sad to believe you were abandoned when that might not have been the case at all :-\
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I've just had a good look all through the Birth indexes and couldn't see any more Short/Cox children in Hastings from 1923 to 1940.
I wonder if there may have been 2 different fathers and the older children may have had yet another surname.
Possible scenarios?
Perhaps with their mother dead and Henry Short newly returned from the war having to start his life again, he decided he didn't want to raise someone elses children and thought it best to make a clean break and not take his own offspring back either. Or possibly he decided that the children would be less traumatised by staying where they were rather than being dragged back to a single parent household...? Who knows?
Glen
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I spoke to my mother in law this morning and she told me that in 1950 an Aunt wrote to her foster mother looking to make contact. Her foster mother refused to show my mother in law the letter or tell my mother in law the name of this Aunt, so someone from the family DID try to make contact. It's a little bit more information to add to what I already have - that her mother or father had a sister :)
From information I gleaned today her father, Henry, was a soldier - she remembers him coming home on visits wearing his uniform. This means at least I can exclude searching Navy and RAF records.
She also remembers her mother "entertaining" other men while her father was away, so yes, there is a possibility that some of the children didn't have the same father. I know that her sister, Mary, was born sometime between 1938 and 1941 and remained in Brighton so she could have been born in Brighton rather than in Hastings like the rest of the children.
I am a lot further forward than I was thanks to the birth records I can now obtain :)
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Mmmmm :-\ tis indeed a sad & tangled story. Two questions;
1. I understand you only saw a copy of your mother-in-laws certificate & made notes from it. Would it be worth getting a copy as this would not only give the place of birth (the hospital) but should also show the address of her mother & who registered the birth. My reasoning is, to try to see if this Violet Emily Cox who died in Hastings is the mother of your mother-in-law. Can you remember if it stated on her birth certificate, Violet EMILY?
2. If your mother-in-law went into foster care maybe there's some paper-work that still survives up in Yorkshire?
jane
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She was born at Hastings Municipal Hospital and it only says Violet Cox, no middle name. Their address was 19 St Paul's Road, St Leonard's on Sea.
When I receive Percy's birth certificate it at least will show me where the parents were living in 1942 ;)
I don't reckon it was foster care as we know it to be today where records would have been kept but simply children placed with families during the war and referred to as "foster parents".
My mother in law told me today that she was known as Short at school but that her headmaster forced her to change her name to Cox because that was the name on her ration card ::)
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I've just been Googling 'foster care records' & not come up with anything :( My own father was 'fostered' in the 1930's & the local authority concerned told me that records don't exist for this period but it was worth a try.
All these little snippets of information your mother-in-law is giving you are invaluable in building-up the bigger picture, I hope you're writing them down ;)
jane
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Oh I am indeed lol I have bits of paper all over the place with stuff scribbled on them from this research and my own family research. I've been good though and I have everything transcribed to Ancestry as well as in Family Tree Maker (which has been backed up). I've done so much work that to lose it all now would be a disaster and a nightmare to reconstruct.
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:)
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Here's an update for everyone - I received a birth certificate today of one of the children in this family and it turns out that my mother in law's parents were married - at the end of 1939 :) Looks like when war broke out they decided to become legitimate lol
The upshot of this is that I have now found a reference to their marriage certificate which I can now send off for and find out who the paternal grandparents were :)
Thank you everyone. This line of inquiry was very worth pursuing ;D
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Thats great, and hopefully it'll lead to much, much more info
It's always a bit of a puzzle when the parents leave things late in getting married, but at least they finally did it! ;D
Good luck
Glen
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Wonderful :) That must have made your mother-in-law feel better. She must be following this with a great deal of interest & excitement,
jane