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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: maz1968 on Tuesday 09 December 08 18:07 GMT (UK)

Title: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Tuesday 09 December 08 18:07 GMT (UK)
My sister and I are new to all this and wondered which certificate is the best to obtain to fine both sets of grand parents, we don't have all names or D.O.B, so wounder if it would be best to get marriage certificates 1st or birth certificates.

We have names and some dates of grand parents, but only 1 great grandparent. so wounder what all your views are to get the rest of our great grand parents.

Maz
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 December 08 18:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Maz

If you would post details of what you already know and names etc - it will be easier for us to help you and point you in the right direction

If it is in connection with your Rutter - Guy FH I notice there have been 2 previous posts

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,344411.0.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,344598.msg2231398.html#msg2231398
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Tuesday 09 December 08 20:01 GMT (UK)
Yes Carole it is in connection with those 2 posts.
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 December 08 22:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Maz

If we take the Ralph Rutter/May Guy side first

This is their marriage reference

Ralph A Rutter to May Guy March quarter 1927 Morpeth Volume 10B Page 607

You will note he is Ralph A so this could be his birth reference

Births June qtr 1895 
 
Ralph Armstrong  Rutter  Alnwick  Vol 10b Page 446

There is only one Ralph Rutter on the 1901 so it must be him

Denwick Village - all b Denwick except where shown otherwise

James Rutter 34 quarryman
Isabella 34 b Amble
Mary A 15 b Chevington
Ellen 13
James 11
Isabella 9
Herbert 7
Ralph 5
Jessie 3
John 11months
RG13; Piece: 4841; Folio: 14; Page: 8

Marriages December qtr 1885   
 
Isabella Spavin Armstrong  Alnwick  10b 506   
James Rutter   Alnwick  10b 506

There is a birth in the September qtr 1901 for a May Guy Ref Tynemouth 10B 355 but as the birth was after the 1901 census, I can't match it to an entry

I would therefore recommend that you start by getting a copy of the Rutter/Guy marriage cert (see ref above) as that will confirm Ralph's fathers name and give you May's age and fathers name
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 09 December 08 22:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Maz

There is a lot of info already posted about the Maud Routledge/George Dodds side of your FH on the following link so I won't duplicate it here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,344411.0.html

Those replies give 1901 info and her birth ref plus a possible first marriage reference

There were 2 possible birth entries for George and as there was no subsequent marriage between him and Maud it would be difficult to establish exactly which one is the right entry

As the birth entry for Maud is the only possible one and her father was not present at the time of the 1901 census - I would recommend you get a copy of her birth cert to find her fathers name and mothers maiden name
Quote
Maud Elizabeth Routledge
Gateshead March Q 1896
10a 929
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 10 December 08 23:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Maz

This is info we have already discussed in our pm exchange but I am posting it here for continuity purposes.  You don't need to reply to it

Maude Routledge married  John G Thompson in the March qtr 1916 ref Tynemouth Vol 10B Page 387

As they married in the Tynemouth registration district, I found these births on freebmd  - in all cases - mothers maiden name was Routledge

Births June qtr 1917 
 
Thompson  Mary E   Tynemouth  10b 561   
 
Births Sept qtr 1918 
 
Thompson  John G  Tynemouth  10b 546   

Births June qtr 1921 
 
Thompson  Robert J     Tynemouth  10b 661   
 
Births Sept qtr 1923 
 
Thompson  Jane H  Tynemouth  10b 565   

Your father has now said that it was George William Henderson Dodds who was Maude's partner after Thompson went into an asylum

This is his birth registration

Births September qtr 1894   

George William H  Dodds   Darlington  10a 30

When you receive the marriage and birth certificates detailed in my previous reply - just post the details on this message as a reply

Please do not raise a new post as all relevant info is here

Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Thursday 11 December 08 13:31 GMT (UK)
Thank you Carole for all your research you have been a great help.
>>>>HUGS<<<<<

Maz
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: madpants on Thursday 11 December 08 13:51 GMT (UK)
Or from my post on a previous thread

Quote
However there are 2 George William H Dodds

March Q 1890 Tynemouth
10b 297

Sept Q 1894 Darlington
10a 30

I am inclined to believe the Tynemouth one is him
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 December 08 15:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Madpants

Sorry - you are correct and it could be either.  I only searched 2 years either side of Gertrude's birthyear so missed the 1890 one

In view of the other Tynemouth info re: Routledge/Thompson marriage and births I agree with you that the 1890 Tynemouth birth looks the likeliest

If Maz wants to pursue the Dodds side - she could order that 1890 birth cert and put a condition on her application that she only wants it if the 3rd christian name was Henderson
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: madpants on Thursday 11 December 08 16:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Carole,

no worries, it get's a tad confusing when the same subject has been covered on several different threads  :D
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Thursday 11 December 08 16:52 GMT (UK)
sorry guys I was not trying to carry on the same subject else where, I originally just had a general question on which certificate is normally best to get to find any family members info....
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Tuesday 20 January 09 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

I have just been rooting through all the info that you lot have found from me and my sister on our grand parents.

I'm not quit sure that we have my correct grandmother on my mum's side....May Guy born 1901 Tynemouth.. 10b/607

We have found that my Grand father on my mum side ... Ralph Rutter was born June Q 1995 Alnwick... 10b/446

There just seems to be a big distance between them to meet up..... I know my mum was born at home in Hadston Northumberland which is a lot closer to Alnwick...

So I'm not sure if the married date is correct that you found for them... or if it was for another Ralph Rutter and May Guy...... March Q 1927 10b/607...
Not sure if it was Morpeth they were married

I know you did find a Ralph Rutter born 1906 in Morpeth but we are sure he's not correct one....

Can anyone help as I am now just totally confused.....

For ever in your hands......
A confused.com..... Maz
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Tuesday 20 January 09 16:39 GMT (UK)
Oooops I forgot to say that I was hoping to get May Guy and Ralph Rutter's Marriage certificate soon, so this is why I was wanting to make sure I had the correct people 1st...

We did find that Ralph Rutters parents if this helps....
James Rutter born 1867 Alnwick
Isabella Spavin Armstrong born 1867 Alnwick.
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 20 January 09 18:08 GMT (UK)
Hi

From my reply dated 9th Dec 2008

Quote
I would therefore recommend that you start by getting a copy of the Rutter/Guy marriage cert (see ref above) as that will confirm Ralph's fathers name and give you May's age  and fathers name


Quote
This is their marriage reference

Ralph A Rutter to May Guy March quarter 1927 Morpeth Volume 10B Page 607

I very much doubt there were two Ralph Rutter/May Guy marriages
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: Sloe Gin on Tuesday 20 January 09 18:18 GMT (UK)
There just seems to be a big distance between them to meet up.....

They were born less than 40 miles apart and people can move around a bit over the course of 26 years.  As the names are not common, I'd be pretty certain it's right.
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Wednesday 21 January 09 11:09 GMT (UK)
OK thanks everyone.....
There marriage cert is next on my list...

I'm at the moment waiting for Maud Routledge's (my grand mother) birth cert in the post and is due any day... In the hope to find my great Grand father... on my dads side..

Will let you know when it arrives and what extra info I get....
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Thursday 22 January 09 16:01 GMT (UK)
I got the Birth certificate everyone so we have some more info to go on....

Maud Elizabeth Routledge : Born 23rd January 1996

Address at birth : 39 Arthur Street Gateshead.

Mother : Mary Jane Calderwood.

Father : James Robert Routledge... General Labourer
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 22 January 09 16:41 GMT (UK)
I got the Birth certificate everyone so we have some more info to go on....

Maud Elizabeth Routledge : Born 23rd January 1996



I think you'll find that was 1896  ;)

The parents marriage appears to have been in Newcastle T in March 1/4 of 1892

Thomas Robert Routledge and on the same page Mary Calderwood.

Should be easy enough to find them in 1901 now

Carol
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 22 January 09 16:50 GMT (UK)
Here they are in 1901- dad is not at home(is he likely to be at sea?)

Mary Routledge married head 31 b Newcastle
James R son 9  b " "
Alfred son 7 b Gateshead
Maud E dau 5 b "
Agnes A dau 3 b Newcastle
Thomas P son 9 mths b Hartford ? Bridge


3 Camden Street,Newcastle uopn Tyne

RG13/4785 folio 102 page 26

Carol
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Thursday 22 January 09 17:24 GMT (UK)
Quote from: carol8353
[quote

I think you'll find that was 1896  ;)

The parents marriage appears to have been in Newcastle T in March 1/4 of 1892

Thomas Robert Routledge and on the same page Mary Calderwood.


Carol
Quote

ooops slip of the finger yes 1896....

Carol its James Robert Routledge not Thomas Robert...
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: carol8353 on Thursday 22 January 09 18:39 GMT (UK)
Maz

The GRO Index has a marriage of a Thomas Robert Routledge on the same page as a Mary Calderwood.

The only way to check those facts would be to get the cert and see if the error is in the indexes or on the cert itself.

Shame he's not at home in 1901 eh  ;D

Carol
Title: Re: Certificate advice
Post by: maz1968 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:26 GMT (UK)
more info found with thanks to Gladys.....

the Marrige of my great grand parents....

January 4th 1872 at christ church Newcastle upon tyne.

James Robert Routledge age 21, Bachelor, fathers name - John george Routledge.

Mary J Calderwood age 21, spinster, father's name - Robert Hodge Calderwood...

  -------------------------------------------------


further info found Mary J Calderwood's parents and siblings....

Robert. H. Calderwood - Head - 48 - born 1833 - Newcastle.

Elizabeth Calderwood - wife - 40 - born 1841 - stannington.

william.A. calderwood - son - 13 - born 1868 - newcastle

Mary Calderwood - daur - 11 - born 1870 - newcastle

Beatrice calderwood - Daur - 9 - born 1872 - newcastle

Robert Calderwood - son - 7 - born 1874 - newcastle

Thomas calderwood - son - 2 - born 1879 - newcastle

Jane.I. calderwood - daur - 2m - born 1881 - newcastle

All living at 19 carliol street, newcastle

         -----------------------------------------


       Also my great grand father Robert Dodds..

John Dodds - head -59 - born 1823 - Felkington, north/land.

Anne Dodds - wife - 53 - born 1823 - newbigging, north/land.

Robert Dodds - son -17 - born 1864 - cowpen colliery.

George Nelson - son inlaw - 24 - born 1857 - cowpen colliery.

Ann Nelson - Daur - 21 - born 1860 - cowpen colliery.

Archbold Nelson - grandson - 1 - born 1880 - cowpen colliery.