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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: JustinL on Tuesday 09 December 08 10:44 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone pls help me (and nessieinspain aka Emma) locate the birth place recorded below on the first line of this extract from the 1901 census?
It seems to read Otelberg, but there is no place of that name in modern Germany (Not that I can find anyway.) It may well have been in one of the former provinces in the east, i.e. Posen, Silesia (Schlesien) or East Prussia.
Many thanks,
Justin
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Best suggestion I can make is "Hochberg" which does exist.
Good luck!
Mark
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I would think Helberg 51647 Gummersbach, Germany :)
Stan
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm really not certain that the first letter is an H. Here's a few more words beginning with H from the same page.
Justin
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If you insist on starting with O (and I accept your argument), how about Ottenberg?
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I'm afraid I'm going to throw a spanner in the works because I don't think that the end of the word is "berg"! I can't see another "b" on the snippets posted, but to me it doesn't look like a "b", I would say it was an "h", which doesn't really help too much!! If you tell me either the reference for the page, or the name, I'll have a look at it on Ancestry. I was a secretary in a previous life, and worked for general practitioners, so hand-writing played a big part!!
BumbleB
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Looks like we have to imagine ourselves as a cockney enumerator writing down what he thought he heard in a German accent.....once Bumble B has encrypted the handwriting. Hopefully there isn't an "H" dropped before the O!!
(BTW, I forgot to mention Ottenberg is in Bavaria, which perhaps can come across as Otelberg?)
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Reuben Rottstein
RG13; Piece: 322; Folio: 96; Page: 31
Stan
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Hi: I found the page, and to me it definitely looks like Otelherg as the letter shapes match others on the page, but then that place doesn't exist, does it (I tried it on Via Michelin)? I think Mark could be right, that it is an interpretation by a Londoner of a German accent!! Sorry I couldn't be more help than that. Perhaps you could try to find a German and get him to say the place name.
BumbleB
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I too was sceptical about the b in berg. However, if you look at the b's in Reuben, Abraham and Rebecca, you'll see that they all resemble the b in -berg.
I'm fairly certain that this place no longer has a German name, so it will not appear in Via Michelin.
If Berlin Bob is out there could I ask you to post this to your German forum (Ahnen und Wappen - oder was aehnliches)?
Justin
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Justin: you could be so right. I did think that a German location ending in "herg" was not quite right, but hadn't studied Rebecca, Abraham etc. Still doesn't get us much further forward!! Rats!!!!
BumbleB
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My eyes see it as Helberg.
Hello BumbleB; if you were at my [retired] doctor's you deserve a degree in paleography if you could decipher his writing!
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Hi All,
I've posted part of the text, with a link to this topic on the german forum:
Ahnenforschung.Org
http://forum.genealogy.net/ahnenforschung/forum/suchanzeigen/lesehilfe/29897-otelberg-helberg-oder/
here's hoping :)
Bob
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I think cms could be right - it could begin with H and not O. Is there a place called Helberg?
And hi cms - unless your doctor was in Manchester, at the Department of General Practice, then I don't think I worked for him. I had one guy whose writing looked wonderful, so precise and neat, until you tried to read it!!!! It was horrendous, and he expected to me to take my typewriter home with me to do his work!!! Dates me, eh!
BumbleB
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Hi,
the german forum is pretty certain (so far) that it is Helberg.
(I included a link to this topic, so they could see the other handwriting examples.)
There are 5 Helbergs in Germany, the most well known one being Helberg near Gummersbach.
http://www.maplandia.com/germany/nordrhein-westfalen/koln/oberbergischer-kreis/helberg/
Bob
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Thank you all very much for your replies and interest.
Bob - I didn't have much luck locating any Helbergs with google.maps. Where are the other four?
I'll have to recheck whether Helberg (or Gummersbach) had any Jewish inhabitants in the 1860s.
Thanks again, Justin
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In the case of Jewish residents, if you're UK-based Justin, you may recall the most recent WDYTYA? series on the BBC (David Suchet episode). There were many communities in the Eastern side of Germany (exiled Russian), and the place may not be in Germany today. Might be renamed part of Poland or Baltic states.
Hope you find the right one.
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Hello Masgrace,
I am virtually certain that this man came from such a place, outside the borders of modern Germany, i.e. the pre-1918 provinces of Posen, Silesia, West and East Prussia.
The Suchets emigrated from the Russian Pale to East Prussia (Ostpreussen).
Justin
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Hi Justin,
Bob - I didn't have much luck locating any Helbergs with google.maps. Where are the other four?
Sorry, my mistake :-[ - I was reading too fast.
Joerg227 from Ahnenforschung.org said there, that there is a Helberg and also 5 x Hellberg.
http://gov.genealogy.net/ , type hellberg in Ortsname and click on Suche
regards,
Bob
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I've found the answer to the Otelberg problem-- 10 years late. This is actually Ortelsburg in East Prussia, Germany(now Szczytno in Poland). I have scans from the local registrar from 1878 with the family name Rothstein.