RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: np-sheffield on Monday 08 December 08 15:23 GMT (UK)
-
I'm researching my ggg.Grandfather, John William PACKHAM. We have a birth certificate for him, born 6th June 1861 in Ash, Aldershot (100 years to the day before me!), giving his mother as Sarah Ann PACKHAM. We have nothing for them in the 1861 Census, nor for JW in the 1871 or 1881 census, but pick up his life again when enlisting for military service in Brighton in July 1879. He gave his occupation as 'Labourer'. Not unreasonably we therefore think the family could have originated from Brighton or the surrounds, but where?
We then know quite a lot about him. He married Annie ECCLESTON in West Felton near Oswestry, Shropshire, they had 13 children, and he served in the Welsh Borderers until retiring and becoming a publican. It is reputed that Annie committed suicide around 1910 and after 1920 JW disappeared and we know nothing of what came of him.
Any information on John William, or his mother Sarah Ann, or his wherabouts after 1920 would be fascinating.
Neil
-
Hi Neil,
What was JW's father's name?
Barbara
:)
-
Hi Neil
Do you think this could be him in 1881
RG11 1099 / f10 page 13
43 Ellen Street, Hove, Sussex
John Packam place of birth not given age 21 unmarried - a carter
lodging with George Stringer and family
also resident at this address George Packam also age 21 bn Hurst Sussex
Rosie
-
Thanks for the replies.
Barbera - There is no father on the birth certificate. The family rumour is that his father was the son of a senior military officer (the Aldershot part) who 'took advantage' of Sarah Ann whilst in service, but then supported JW financially through his life. He certainly had enough money to buy a pub and a house in the same street when he retired from the Army, quite a feat on a Colour Sergeants pension. We did wonder if his decision to join the Welsh Borderers rather than a local regiment could be significant, but I doubt we'll ever know for sure.
Curiously, he gives a name of John Packham - Salesman as father at his marriage. Either this is made up, or Sarah Ann was married to John Sr. but John Sr. was not the father of John William. We can't find them in the 1861 or the 1871. There are a small number of candidates Sarah Ann, but this is pure conjecture as we dont know if she was married at the time of JW's birth or not. We only have her name on the birth certificate.
Rosie - Sadly these are unlikely to be John William as he had joined up in 1879. He was posted to Colchester at the time of 1881 Census. Interestingly we have only ever found one other Packham born in Aldershot, James b. about 1860 and that is the only mention we ever found of him too in 1881! Nothing before or since.
We have surmised that they might be a military family with an overseas posting. Do you have any idea as to how we might find that out?
-
Hi Neil
Does it give an address in Ash on his birth certificate?
Rosie
-
Hi Neil
Does it give an address in Ash on his birth certificate?
Rosie
I was going to ask the same thing! Given that he was born in June, young John won't appear in the 1861 census (taken in April) but it would be interesting to see who was at the birth address on census day.
Anna :)
-
Hi
I can't look at it as I don't have census access but there is a Sarah Peckham bn 1836, Surrey living in Ash in 1861 on the An**try index.
Rosie
-
Rosie - yes Ash, Aldershot.
-
Neil
Ash is a village on the outskirts of Aldershot. Ash is in Surrey, Aldershot is in Hampshire though the postal address nowadays is Ash, Aldershot, Hampshire it comes under Surrey County Council. ???
Hopefully someone will be able to look at the census entry for a Sarah PECKHAM as per my other post, in case it's her.
Rosie :)
-
Hi Rosie, its been very kind of you. I have found the census sheet with Sarah Peckham. It shows a Head of household as Mary Nailard b 1796 in Ringusom Surrey, and daughter Eliza Peckham b abt. 1839, and Sarah b abt 1835 as a visitor same place of birth. I'm still trying to work out all the different combinations that could have happened! She looks like a good candidate though and gives me another alley (blind or otherwise) to have a look down.
Thanks all.
-
Here it is:
1861 census RG9/434 Folio 20 Page 33
Ash Common, Farnborough, Ash, Surrey
Mary A Nailard head m 45 Laundress Sussex Ringmore? (possibly Ringmer?)
Eliza Peckham dau s 22 " "
Sarah Peckham visitor s 25 Servant (dom) "
Rosa Darling servt s 16 Servant of all work Sussex Woking
Barbara edit: just seen that you already have access! It is always worth checking variations of the surname, though not sure how you can prove this is the Sarah you want
:-\
-
Hi Neil
Well there is a Sarah Ann Packham baptised in Ringmer who could fit that bill on the IGI, so fingers crossed and Happy Hunting. Come back if you want more help. ;D
Rosie
-
Hello Neil,
There are Packhams and Peckhams by the dozen in Ringmer.
This site has them summarised: www.ringmer.info (http://www.ringmer.info)
Phil
-
Hi all :)
The 1871 census shows an interesting family at Uckfield Union Workhouse
There's a Sarah Weeks age 35 born Ringmer with, among other children, a John William Weeks age 10 born Ash.
RG10/1053 78 3
There's a marriage
Sep 1862 Hailsham 2b 103
Sarah Ann Packham - John Weeks
-
Bingo Tati - well found!
Barbara :)
-
And here they are in 1881 - don't know whether the fact they have now a 9 year old son also called John rules them out - hopefully not completely ... I like the fact his stepdad is called John
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=21971837
:)
-
Hi all :)
The 1871 census shows an interesting family at Uckfield Union Workhouse
There's a Sarah Weeks age 35 born Ringmer with, among other children, a John William Weeks age 10 born Ash.
RG10/1053 78 3
There's a marriage
Sep 1862 Hailsham 2b 103
Sarah Ann Packham - John Weeks
Well done Tati ;D ;D ;D
Rosie
-
So kind of you to dig in and find these leads for me. I've been stuck on Sarah for two years, and its fantastic to make some progress again!!
I'm starting to think that Mary Nailard in Ash (nee Packham) is not Sarah Anns mother after all, but perhaps an aunt. (Bit of a cliche I know to send the unmarried pregnant girl to her aunt for the birth!). I'm thinking this because I have found three girls Elizabeth b1830, Fanny b1834 and Sarah Ann Packham b1836 in Ringmer Workhouse in 1841. Perhaps the family fell on hard times or the parents died and there was nothing else to do with the children.
Anyway, Sarah Ann and Fanny appear in 1851 living in Brighton. Fanny is unmarried but has a 3m old daughter. She is a dress maker, but I cant quite make out Sarahs occupation from the census sheet.
-
I cant quite make out Sarahs occupation from the census sheet.
Looks like servant of of situation to me - maybe it should read out of situation?
-
An unemployed servant? Crikey, she didnt have a lot of luck in her life did she? In the workhouse at 7, out of work, then pregnant out of wedlock, then back in the workhouse again with a husband nowhere to be seen.
Do you think the records from Uckfield workhouse have survived, Tati?
Thank you so much for your help by the way!
-
Sorry, I have no local knowledge at all ... but someone else will :D
-
Hello Neil,
Some records seem to have survived.
Search on A2A for Uckfield Workhouse at East Sussex Record Office.
It should bring up Catalogue G. Open up the full catalogue and go to the bottom. G/11/19 is the series for Indoor Relief List.
Phil
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=179-g&cid=-1#-1
It worked :D
-
Just a quick follow-up...Since you were able to help me on these key points, and the incedibly knowledgable John Kay at Ringmer, we have been able to determine Sarah Ann's lineage back to 1675 and add a lot of detail about her parents, and also about her life.
Around the same time as you posted, I was able to contact a very distant relative who has a photo of her and her youngest daughter Matilda taken in Brighton around 1900. To go from a name and nothing else, to having a rich history and photo's too in a couple of months is fantastic. Thanks to all who helped.
Neil
-
Fantastic news Neil - thanks for the update :D