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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: nessieinspain on Friday 05 December 08 14:47 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I'm trying to trace a friends family for him but I am stuck with
Frederick John Ruby born Apr/May/Jun 1916 in Stepney London Middlesex who married an Ann Onions.
Fredericks father was Issac Ruby/Rothstein, we believe he changed his name as he was Jewish who married a female surname Nixon/Dixon.
I have tried all the usual avenues IGI Ancestry but either I'm looking in the wrong places or this one really could be a dead end.
Any help greatly appreciated
Emma in Spain
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Do you know the first name of Ms Nixon?
The birth certificate of Frederick John may be the way to go.
For that matter, are you sure she's Nixon and that's not just a typo in the index?
In Stepney, the other Ruby births around the same time are for Ruby with mother's maiden name DIXON or DICKSON.
Isaac did not have to formally change his name; he could just start using the new name (as long as he had no intent to defraud anyone by it). http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ does not show a name change from Rothstein to Ruby as far as I can see.
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Hi,
A copy of Frederick's birth certificate would give the maiden name of his mother, which might help in the search for the marriage. Free BMD gives her name as Nixon:
Births:
Frederick J Ruby JunQ 1916 Stepney 1c 551 (mother Nixon)
Nanny Jan
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Hi all
I have spoken with my friend and he is pretty sure Issac Ruby/Rothstein married a Ann/Annie Dixon. Apparently Ann/Annie was married before to a man we believe might have been named Dodds, they had two daughters Elizabeth & Winnifred who were brought up as Issacs children. Issac & Ann/Annie then had a son of their own called Harry Ruby who was in the recon core then along came the other son Frederick john Ruby born 17th March 1916 He was in the military police.
At the moment this is all I have
Thank you for your help as I'm stuck on this one
Emma in Spain
x
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Okay, Ruby/Dixon children:
Harry J. Ruby (mother's maiden name Dickson), 1912
Joseph C Ruby (mmn Dixon, died young), b. 1913
Charles Ruby (mmn Dixon, died young), b. 1915
and then your Frederick.
One of the birth certificates (say Frederick's) will confirm Ann/Annie's first name AND, if you're lucky, also list her previous married name.
There's a possible Annie Alice M. Dixon married in 1902, Poplar - possible spouse Albert Edwin Dodd. But I'm still not having any luck finding the Ruby/Rothstein (other possible name spellings?) marriage.
Does your friend remember when Elizabeth and Winnifred were born, or who they married?
Or when Isaac and Ann died?
!!!!!!
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t19101011-name-110&div=t19101011-29#highlight
- mentions Mrs Elizabeth Dixon, Annie Dodd her daughter, witnesses in the trial of Isaac Rottstein, charged with manslaughter (found guilty, but under provocation, sentenced to two months).
There is a mention of him saying something about "his wife" being there to the police originally, although he was there with Elizabeth Dixon, Annie Dodd, and another woman (a daughter in law of Elizabeth). In court he amends it to 'a young lady, her mother and her sister in law' - and says that the young lady (Annie?) was heavily pregnant.
He says he was 23, and a tailor. This could be another mention of him, with his father! (This time, as witnesses for the prosecution):
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t19061022-name-386&div=t19061022-66#highlight
1901 shows an Isaac Rottstein, b. Bristol, aged 13, in Limehouse, with father Reuben, from Germany, and the rest of the family. He is on freebmd.rootsweb.com as Isaac Rothstein, b. Bristol.
I think Annie might also be in Limehouse, along with mother Elizabeth, 54, b. Devon - I can't see full details of the 1901, someone else should be able to get you the full censuses.
After Isaac was released, he probably changed his name to Ruby and set up house with Annie and her daughters in Stepney. They did not necessarily marry.
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JOROSE THANK YOU!!!!!
Wow! I'm just in the process of emailing all of this to my friend and all the names match!! Always knew he was a shady character lol
Off now to see if I can find him in 1891......
Thanks again
Emma in Spain
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What a find jorose, well done! ;D
Nanny Jan
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Hi
There is this marriage
Marriages Sep 1914
Rutstein Isaac Greenbaum Mile End 1c 731
Greenbaum Sophia Rutstein Mile End 1c 731
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
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Hi, 1901 census Isaac RG13/322/95 Elizabeth RG13/322/94
Jennifer
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Sorry guys
I can't see how Issac & Elizabeth can be mine as my Issac Ruby married Ada/ Adelaide Dixon/Dodds
Emma in Spain
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Jennifer
Is 95 and 94 the folio numbers or the pages?
mab
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Hello Mab, Sorry should be Rg13 /322 folio 94 and 322/folio 96. both at the top of each page.
Also found a death of an Adelaide Rottstein aged 66 March qtr 1929 Stepney ref. 1c535.
Jennifer
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I think this is them......RG13; Piece: 322; Folio: 96; Page: 31.
mab
Snap ;D
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;D It is them but I cant get past the father Reuben Rottstein c.1860 Heilberg Germany, the mission is to find out his story I believe there is a misstranscribe in the census as the brother in law is down as Mooe so that would make it Adelaide/Ada mooe but looking at the writing I think it's Moor. I have all of Ada & Issacs kids & from them down it's up we need lol
Thanking you all
Emma in Spain
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I thought it looked like Moor....look at the "r" on tailor.
mab
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This could be the father's death notice.
Reuben Rottstein
A/M/J 1923
age 64
London City 1c 32
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;) yup got that one lol ;D
Wish I still had credits for GR!!
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Although I can't access it fully, I believe you will find them in 1891 indexed as Kattstonten. :P
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The reference for Emma......Piece: 285; Folio 83; Page 44
mab
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;D I love you guys Thank you! ;D
Excuse my french but.......Mon Dieu! Sacre Bleu! Blimey it's them!! Wow absolutely amazing her place of birth is down as Hocksey not limehouse, does anyone know if it's close?
Emma in Spain
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I'm trying to get a connection with the brother-in-law William Mooe/Moor :-\ So far zilch :-X
mab
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Yeah I tried that one but if they all changed thier names that much god help us! Why wouls someone change their name from Kattstonten to Rottstein?
I can't work the different search engines fast enough lol want to do ten things at once maybe Kattstonten was a criminal after all we know Rottstein got into trouble later?
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If you study the census page it really is a very bad attempt to write Rottstein. It's misspelled....they even crossed out the end bit and tried again. The first letter is an R but it could be taken as a K.
mab
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Hi, I think the place of birth is Hackney not Hocksey?
Jennifer
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Hi,
Hackney is a few parishes to the north of Limehouse.
Nanny Jan
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Well...I have tried to find some of the births for the children in the 1901 census and I have only found a Joseph Rottstein...Dec 1898....Stepney...1c 417.
mab
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meethinks you may be right lol I have found a couple of Rottstien soldiers, Harry & Joseph sons of Reuben & Ada I believe just gotta try & prove it lol
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The two boys who were born in Brighton - Isaac is listed under 'Rothstein', 'Abraham' could be the "Albert Rothstein" also registered in Bristol? Year is right.
Other than that, I also am having trouble finding them. Perhaps registered under Ada's maiden name? (Whatever that was!)
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I know........I tried all the Ro* possibles in Bristol and the Isaacs and the Abrahams......did find a name that stuck out though....Abraham Kujawski which if I'm not mistaken is Polish??? Didn't sound like a local name and is totally irrelevant to this whole thing ;D Anyway...... :D
Well we know they were Rottsteins from 1891 to 1901 ::)
If it was me I'd order the birth certificate for Joseph Rottstein just for the heck of it :-\
mab
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I have been trying to decifer the 1901 census showing Reubens Brother in law William Mooe's real name. Looking at the cert it lppks to me more like the name began with a J. If I can find his real name then I should be able to get Ada & his parents.
Please have a look see what you think the surname is.
Emma in Spain
>:( It won't let me attatch file??
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I think it's Moor....The first letter looks the same as other M's on the page. If you look farther down at the bottom there is someone who is a match box maker and the M is the same :-\
mab
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I think you are right but I have trawled familysearch and ancestry for all William Moo* born Limehouse london and can only find him listed on the 1901 census age 21.
Ada however is listed as being 38 in 1901 born Limehouse but 25 in 1891 born Hackney so date of birth would be anywhere between 1860-1870 but I never been that good at maths!
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Well Moor does appear to be a valid surname.
I don't know what registration district Limehouse falls under during that period ???
There are these two Williams on FreeBMD....
William Cecil Moor Sep 1880 Kensington 1a 85
William Alfred Moor Sep 1879 Shoreditch 1c 141
mab
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And another possible....
William Thomas Moor Mar 1881 Lambeth 1d 436
mab
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So far I have as possibles
William Moor 1879 Oldford Middlesex
William Moor 1896 Mile end
William 1880 Shoreditch
William Henry Moor 1872 mile end
William Alfred Moor 1879 Shoreditch
William Thomas Moor 1881 Lambeth
I know Ada & Reuben Rottstein had a child Abraham born Bristol c.1882 and have found a possible
Ada Louisa Moor born 1856 Stepney married 1881 Poplar?
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I tried looking for any William born around 1880 but so far no luck :( Maybe it's his second name :-\
I had that happen to me yesterday. Spent all day looking for a Richard but he used his second name Ernest....... :o
mab
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Here is an Ada with a William in 1891 registration district Hackney but the ages are off.
Piece: 180; Folio 140; Page 20
mab
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;D I have them on the 1891 census living in St George in the East 255 I think it's Langdale Street.
Hmmm back searching I'm sure I have seen other Rottsteins living in St George!!
Merry Xmas!! :D
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Here is an Ada with a William in 1891 registration district Hackney but the ages are off.
Piece: 180; Folio 140; Page 20
mab
Ignore this....I've lost the plot :o
mab
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:D Welcome to my wopld lol ;D