RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: keithc54 on Friday 05 December 08 14:24 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to research my family (Cumbers) but 2 generations married into Romany Gypsy families and I can find very little information in the BDRM websites. Does anybody have any ideas how I can find out the information I require.?
Also my greatgrandfather Alfred Cumbers and his wife Alvey (Hedges) are shown as living at The Old Rose and Crown Collier Row but I have not found any records of such a Pub. I am sure that it must have existed since it is shown on my father's birth cert. in 1919 and I also have an old an old photographic postcard from an "ever loving sister-in-law" to my granny at the address. I can only think that this sister-in-law is one one of my granddad's sisters either Eliza b. 1887, Olive b. 1891, Alice b. 1893 or Phyllis b.1897. Has anyone any information on these people or his brother Henry Cumbers b.1899
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Hi Keith
Where do the yeldings come into it? I have a Joe Yelding in my family tree, he died in 1883 after a horse accident but he was a traveller so would like to find out more about him.
Lorraine
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Keith
This link takes you to a 1919 directory:
http://historyofstratford.co.uk/Romford/1919/Romford-1919Directory-C.shtml
showing the Rose and Crown in Church Rd Romford with Alfred Cumbers so it definitely existed, I will keep looking.
David
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This book might help as it charts the history of Collier Row from mid 1800s onwards with lots of photographs:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0528/
If you look at the picture on the book jacket and zoom in you can see a pub sign; it might be .....?
Old map of Collier Row:
long Google images URL (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.francisfrith.com/c10/450/27/59843.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/grt%2Blondon/collier%2Brow/&usg=__MrRrlTsOJ_ffEnOcXfO59UugJY0=&h=314&w=450&sz=51&hl=en&start=51&um=1&tbnid=K77nXG5k-fNadM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCollier%2BRow%2Bromford%26start%3D36%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)
:)
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Interestingly there was a pub on Collier Row caled the Sun and then Rising Sun 1797-1895, I wonder if they changed the name?
http://londonpublichouse.com/essexpubs/CollierRow/sun.shtml
David
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No mention of the Rose and Crown in 1901 census nor the RisingSun, so it would seem that one closed and the other appeared not necessarily on the same site though.
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ooh this might be of interest to you:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=8e28f83b2de73d3905b493c323f1682d&topic=336043.from1228511372;topicseen
:D
Ah I see you came on on the end of that post so know about it already.
:-\
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Keith, I posted this in the Hedges thread a while back but shall repost it here:
I've just found this and thought it was worth posting:
1881:
Dwelling: 63 Stockwell Road
Census Place: Lambeth, Surrey, England
Source: FHL Film 1341140 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0609 Folio 47 Page 11
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William A. DAVIS M 35 M Lewisham, Kent, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Baker & Confectioner
Charlotte DAVIS M 27 F Rye, Sussex, England
Rel: Wife
Occ: Baker & Confectioner Wife
William E. DAVIS 2 M Stockwell, Surrey, England
Rel: Son
Thomas CUMBERS U 17 M Romford, Essex, England
Rel: Assistant
Occ: Assistant
Margaret LOWE U 42 F Walsall, Stafford, England
Rel: Lodger
Occ: Cook Domestic Servant
William A. Davis could be related to the the Davis' who married into the Hedges... but also note Thomas Cumbers. Now datewise, he could be a brother of Alfred Cumbers. His place of birth fits too.
There's also a William, Samuel and Elizabeth Cumbers in Surrey, all except Elizabeth, born Romford, who also could be siblings.
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Hi Keith and everyone
I am posting this info so that people do not repeat what has already been found. This was done on the Hedges thread . Hopefully it will make things easier to find more connections;
re Albey/alvey Cumbers nee Hedges
1891
Cheshunt, Hertford
Longfield Lane
Caravan
Alfred Cumbers head mar 31 hawker b essex Romford
ALBEY wife 26 b Kent dartford
Elizer son 6 Dartford
Eliza dau 3 b South End essex
/
Elias Hedges head 52 hawker b Dartford ...Alvy/Alby's dad
Alice wife 50 b dartford .... so now bc 1841 ...Alvy/Alby's mum
Elizass son 22 hawker b dartford
Elijah son 20 hawker b dartford
Charlotte dau 18 hawker b dartford
Phoebe dau 16 b Romford essex
Eliza dau 13 b Romford
1901
Cheshunt, Hertford
Caravan Standhews Lane
Alfred Cumbers head mar 42 travelling hawker/employer b Romford
AUBREY (sic) wife 36 Dartford kent
Elias son 16 treavelling hawker b kent Teston?
Eliza dau 14 b Southend on Sea
Olive dau 10 b Herts, Flamstead End ...is this "Poor Olive'?
Alice dau 8 " " ...is this "poor Alice"?
Phillis dau 4 " "
Henry son 2 " "
There is a marriage on the IGI for Alfred CUMBERS to Albey HEDGES on 7 May 1883 at Woodford Essex.
It gives Alfred CUMBERS as born 17 Oct 1859 in Romford Essex
................................................................................................................
Alvy/Alby Hedges with her family
1881
Caravan
Elias Hedges 37 mar licensed hawker b Aylesford Kent
Alice wife 35 b Kent St mary .... Alice Hedges nee Reynolds
Alvy/Alby 16 b Dartford Kent
sibs;
Olive 14 b Southfleet Kent ...this could be the Aileen you refered to
Elias 12 b Kirnson Kent
Elijah 10 b Erith Kent
Lottie 7 b Sussex Raleigh
Thomas 5 Kent Sittingbourne
Henry 4 b Essex Woodford
Phoebe 3 b Essex Weathersfield
Celia 11months b essex Romford
1871
Elias Hedges , 27 b Berks
Alice wife 22 b Kent
Elvy dau 6 b Dartford Kent,
Olive 4, Kent Southfleet
Elias 3 Kinson
Elijah 1 Erith
deb
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Hello Keith
I have a Elias Cumbers in my tree born about 1885 he married Emily Yelding (my grandad's sister) they married in 1915 and had three children Alvey cumbers born 1910
Elias cumbers born 1912
John cumbers born 1915
They were all born in the romford area.
Emily Cumbers died in 1918 aged 32 she died in a caravan "we anchor in hope" willing.
On Elias and Emily's marriage cert it states that Elias father was Alfred Cumbers.
Hope this information will help you.
Appletree
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I have Sarah Cumbers in my family tree. She was born in 1863 in South Weald, Essex and married Frederick Robinson of Cheshunt, Hertfordshire. To-gether they had at least one child, Alice M born in 1891.
My family were also Publicans in Bethnal Green with the family name of Roberts.
If any of these names are familiar, please leave a message.
Thank you for reading this....
Warner
Roberts
Robinson
Orange
Harris
Faint
Cumbers to name just a few
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I am new to RootsChat. My Great Aunt was Sarah Cumbers ..... married to Frederick Robinson ..... I would be delighted to share further information as I have found tracing this family quite difficult .......
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Hello there
I am also related to this family. The parents of Frederick Robinson were James and Sarah Robinson. They were my great great grandparents.
I should be very happy to hear from you
Best wishes
Diana
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Hiya keithc54 alvey cumbers is my great nan and Alfred was my great grandad , Alice was my nan who died very young due to heart problem, alvey then after her daughter died (Alice) she then came to live in vange Basildon near the barge pub this is all based on what my mum told me (little alvey ) but then in later years my great nan (granny) went to live with her granddaughter Margery and her husband also big Henry lived with them all aswell in vange. Big Henry died about 39 years ago Christmas Eve with a cigarette in his hand in his chair, they are both buried in vange St. Peter's church. What I would like to know if anyone has any information of my nan not Alice and my grandad her husband Samuel wheal I.e where they are buried etc.. Also I still have few relatives that are alive but not much is known about Alice and her whereabouts but most relatives do call her poor Alice for some unknown reason . hopefully someone could help shed some light as it would be lovely . If I don't receive a message back on this forum anyone who has any information can email me privately tinawillis123@gmail.com . Thanks x