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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Merionethshire => Wales => Merionethshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: imarlb on Thursday 04 December 08 21:43 GMT (UK)
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I'm searching for records concerning offspring of David ROWLAND, trumpeter of Bala.
I've got bits and pieces of history re this chap but am currently interested in his offspring one of whom is reputed to be the Rev David ROWLAND of Llidiardau.
David (senior) married someone named Jane and they had this son David baptised in 1795, I believe.
Jane apparently died and in 1801 David married Anne EVANS daughter of William EVANS a prominent Methodist exhorter. She was widow of Ellis WILLIAM.
David (senior) and Anne are still around at Bala for the 1841 census and with them is a son William aged 35 also a trumpeter.
I'm interested in baptisms for any offspring of either of David's wives. This would be in the time period 1790 to 1810 probably at Llanycil although they might be using Chapels or nearby parishes I suppose.
If anyone could help out with a lookup, I'd be very grateful.
Best wishes, Irene
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Hi Irene
I don't have any chapel records but I do have access to the parish records of Llanycil and the other Penllyn parishes . I'll check them through and get back to you :)
Gadget
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Hi again
From Llanycil baptisms
17 June 1795 David s/o David Rowland (trumpeter) and Jane
9 August 1800 Robert s/o David Rowland (trumpeter) and Jane
There are two other David Rowland having children at that time - one married to Elizabeth and one married to Margaret
Gadget
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Hi Gadget:
Thanks very much for these. I'm sure that David and Robert belong to "my" David ROWLAND. Although he must have made a swift remarriage. I wonder if Jane died in childbirth and if Robert survived. The story goes that David jr was raised by his maternal grandmother but there's no mention of Robert.
David's 2nd wife was named Anne EVANS and I'm fairly sure that there must have been at least the one son William who shows up on the 1841 census.
Perhaps they spent time in a nearby parish or perhaps they had any later children "done" at Chapel.
Regards and thanks, Irene
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Hi again, irene
As it does specify 'trumpeter' after the baptism entry, I'm sure they're yours :)
It would be quite likely that if the 2nd wife was the daughter of a Methodist, then the children would be baptised into that congregation.
I'll check for a burial of Jane. However, the records at that time are a mixture of patronymic, semi-patronymic and surnames so it might be tomorrow before i put anything up.
Gadget
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Hi Irene
This is a bit tricky still.
I see that on his marriage to Anne Evans on 16 Feb 1801, David was termed David Rowlands (the surname form - compared with the baptism entries which were in the semi-patronymic form) and he was a widower of Llanuwchllyn. They married by licence, so the full details will be in the marriage bonds at the National Libray.
I'll check for more info in Llanuwchllyn and, after 1801 in Llanfor. It will take a while though.
Gadget
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I've now found the marriage of David Rowland (semi-patronymic form) and Jane Roberts on 13th October 1792 at Llanycil. They were both 'of this parish' and the marriage was by licence - again this can be obtained from the National Library at Aberystwyth.
Gadget
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Because of the variations between naming forms used, there are three possibles for the burial of Jane in Llanycil:
24 September 1800
30 March 1800
both as Jane Roberts (surname) - which seems strange that she would have moved to her father's surname rather than using her husband's name
and
18th June 1799 as Jane Rowland (semi-patronymic). However, if this was used, it's unlikely that it is your Jane as she would be Jane Robert (women keeping their birth name in this system) and the child Robert woud have been over the age of one when he was baptised (unusual).
Gadget
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Hi Gadget:
Thanks very much for the lookups. It may be impossible to determine which of the burials applies to Jane although the 2 in 1800 seem (as you say) the more likely.
I did have the marriage of this David ROWLAND and Jane in 1792 but he's a joiner. Could trumpeting have been a ceremonial thing and that he would have to have 2 jobs to get by. I know that he was paid for the trumpeting from Quarter Sessions Accounts but I have no feel for whether it constituted a living or not.
I also have the marriage bond and allegation for his marriage to Anne Evans. The allegation is damaged however with his parish of origin (probably Bala actually) being in a large hole. The bond is similarly damaged with the hole being on the other side obscuring something but probably just the county. He was of Bala in the bond. The allegation gives his occupation as yeoman which does make me doubt the joiner's marriage.
Here is the link for the DWB entry on David ROWLAND jr.
http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-ROWL-DAV-1795.html?query=David+Rowland&field=name
It states that David jr was raised by his grandmother at Cwmtylo which would perhaps imply that his mother would have married in that parish - would it be in Llanuwchllyn?
Anyway, thanks for all your help. It's an interesting family.
Best wishes, Irene
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I'll look into all this tomorrow, Irene. It's a bit of a puzzle :-\
Got to go off line now for the evening.
It is quite likely that the trumpeting could be ceremonial. It does say that he's of Llanuwchllyn in the register though.
As there were 3 David Rowland plus a David Rowlands, could they have become confused. I've just used the wives's names that you've given.
I'm not sure that a joiner would become a yeoman.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
I have been following this post with particular interest as there is a distant connection going back to the 18th century.
I would like to find out a little more if possible and wonder if you have had a chance to have another look. I appreciate it is very difficult with the patronymics sometimes in and not on other occasions.
The 'trumpeter' occupation sounds fascinating and at first I had in mind a procession with 'Druids' following in their robes but I now understand that it is not just peculiarly Welsh. I tried phoning the local tourist board to see if they knew anything but they are operating Winter opening hours and if I have time I will try again at the weekend when they are open.
Best wishes
Peter
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Hi Peter and Irene
I'm a bit busy at the moment but I'll go through all the records I have systemmatically over the next few weeks.
Patronymic->semi-patronimic ->surname and back again doesn't help and it needs a bit of concentration and thinking through.
What is your particular interest, Peter?
Tis not all those inns in Ruthin, is it ;D
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Thanks for your continuing help. I expect this lot from Bala, Llanycil etc were not the ones to frequent the pubs although on second thoughts there was a publican in Bala around 1850. I have checked as I type and it is the second of three Griffith Thomas's whose father married Hannah Evans in Llanfawr/Llanfor in 1817. He was an innkeeper in Llandderfel (The Cross Keys became a house many years ago) It gets complicated after that! Nearly all seemed to have their first husband or wife die so there are 2 sets to look at plus the step relation having different second names because of patronynics.
I'll post if I find out some more about trumpeters.
Incidentally access to the newspapers seems to have stopped.
Nadolig Llawen
Peter
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:)
Nadolig Llawen i chithau
(I think - rusty :) )
Gadget
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Sorry to raise a very old topic, but I believe one of these David Rowland(s) is "my" David Rowland.
Took me a while to make all the connections due to the variety of spellings of Rowland (Rawland, Roland, Rowlands, etc) so wasn't quite able to quite connect the dots on the census records until today. I could only really confirm a South London and Hackney/Shoreditch connection initially until about an hour ago.
To cut a long story short, I am now looking for a David Rowland b, 1823, supposedly in Bala, though most of the census records just said Wales. His father, according to his marriage banns (in 1847, Bethnal Green, to Sarah Ellis, b. 1819 Felsted), is David Rowland, Farmer.
I found an 1841 census which might be a match with Rowland Rowland as a brother, among many others, and mother Margaret - but not sure if that is my David Rowland. Presumably father David the farmer is missing because he'd died a few years prior to 1841 (youngest son is listed 3 years old, putting a death around 1839-early 1841). If I can get confirmation that Margaret's missing husband is David Rowland then I suspect I have a match.
Does this tie in with any of the David's mentioned above, or based on other Rowlands in the area at this time?
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Sorry to raise a very old topic, but I believe one of these David Rowland(s) is "my" David Rowland.
To cut a long story short, I am now looking for a David Rowland b, 1823
The David ROWLAND(S) we were discussing were born c. 1760 and 1795 respectively. The older of these 2 is still in Bala in 1841. This is a side branch for me and I no nothing more about the family.
Irene
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Interestingly Gadget mentioned sons of David Rowland and Margaret in one of the earlier posts, I guess I need to scour through the baptisms to see what I can find there, but that looks promising. Are the baptism records only available via FindMyPast?
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Quite frankly I had to look up quite a bit for this!Bala was not a parish on its own,it was part of the Llanycil Parish.Clwyd FHS have transcribed booklets for the Parish of Llanycil Baptisms up to 1837;
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/publications/registers-books.htm
Regards
William Russell Jones.