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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: westmorland on Thursday 04 December 08 00:34 GMT (UK)
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hi there, was not sure which part of the forum to post this question.
is it still posible to trace my grandfather because all i know is his name, his wifes name, and roughly the date he was born and married?
his name is william C hendren, i believe from manchester, his birth will have been from 1900 to 1905, married to lilly dawson and theire first child was born about 1923 to 1925 and was called lilly or lillian.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated
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William C Hendren m Lily Dawson
Birkenhead March q, 1925, vol 8a page 786
His father's name should be on the cert
Gadget
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There's a William Charlie Hendren b MarchQ 1908 Cockermouth 10b p700 could that be him?
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Also a William Hendren b. Birkenhead in 1901:
Sept q, 1901, vol 8a page 514
Gadget
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That's more likely Gadget, there's a Lilian Hendren SeptQ 1925 Birkenhead vol 8a p866 mothers name Dawson.
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Looks like they were both from there then :)
I'll take a look at the 1901 to see if I can identify any likely parents but I think the 1925 marriage cert is the next step :)
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There seem to be clusters in Birkenhead with a few in Workington, Cumberland. Not enough to identify a family though.
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cheers everyone, all your help has been much appreciated i can assure you.
next step marriage certicate as suggested.
don't think it's the hendren from cockermouth born 1905, as it would have made him only 17 when he married, not impossible i know.
i think gadget has pin pointed the one i believe to be the right one and thats the william hendren born 1901 birkenhead, infact i'm 99% sure that the one.
so if i check that out it will give me the family names on the census and enable me to find out if he had brothers or sisters etc ?
once again big thanks to everyone!!!!!!!!!
james
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hi ther, got the birth cert, the one gadget gave vol 08 page 514, but just checked my mothers wedding cert and it states her fathers name as william C Hendren, where as the 1901 birth cert just says william hendren.
have i sent for the correct birth cert do you think?
cheers
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Hi,
The Cheshire BMD site gives the marriage as,
William Charles HENDREN
Lily DAWSON
Birkenhead, Civil Marriage
Wirral BW/129/68
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cheshirebmd/index.html
Do you know when he died as that might help us find his DOB?
Regards
Daisy
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Hi
From the BIVRI Christenings
William HENDREN christened 17th July 1901 St Peters, Rock Ferry
father Samuel James HENDREN, mother Mary Jane HENDREN
The date fits the Sept Qtr registration in Birkenhead (Rock Ferry is part of Birkenhead)
From the 1901 Census RG13 Piece 3396 Folio 125 page 18
182 Peel St, Tranmere, Birkenhead
Samuel J Hendren 29 General Labourer
Mary J Hendren 26
Ruth Hendren 7
John T Hendren 4 all born Workington, Cumberland.
Curiosley I can't find a marriage for Samuel and Mary nor births for Ruth & John but I did find births in the Cockermouth Registration District (which covers Workington) for a Ruth HENDERSON and a John Thomas HENDERSON that are the right ages so if Mary Jane HENDRENs maiden name was previously HENDERSON then the older children may not be Samuels
Andy
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Hi
I think that this is the cert that would give you the info that you need.
William C Hendren m Lily Dawson
Birkenhead March q, 1925, vol 8a page 786
His father's name should be on the cert
Gadget
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phoned my aunty and she confirmed that his fathers name was Samual, so as far as i'm concerned the birth cert is the correct one.
and then she said something which i thought was a little strange but just put it down to one of those stories that get pased down from generation to generation, she said '' it's not really Hendren you know, it's Henderson, they had to change for some reason, but we were never told why.''
those were her exact words spoken today(well yesterday as it's after midnight now) so it appears that perhaps williams children which included my mother never knew that there fathers sisters and brother were not blood related.
Although saying that, on william hendren's birth certificate, it has his mother as mary jane hendren, formerly Russell.
but for my aunty to mention about the name change, and then i come on the forum and find the info etc , very strange. any ideas of what my next step should be would be appreciated.
i will try to find out the date william died if i can.
many thanks to you all for all your help
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Hi
It looks to me like Samuel Hendren entered into a relationship with Mary Jane (who already had 2 children) and they had a son William. When William's birth was registered the parents didn't have to produce evidence of a marriage, if the informant said that the mother was Mary Jane Hendren nee Russell, thats what would be entered. Also children changing their surname to that of a step father (even if no actual marriage) is not unusual. I couldn't see an obvious Henderson/Russell marriage.
There is a birth for a Ruth HENDERSON in Cockermouth Registration District (which covers Workington) Dec Qtr 1893 Vol 10b Page 581 that may be Williams older step sister.
Andy
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Hi,
There is a marriage in the Sep qtr 1891, reg dist Cockermouth for a Samuel James Henderson, the page number is 853.
For the same qtr and reg dist, there is a marriage listed for Mary Jane Russell, the page number is 858.
Looking at the two images, I think that the one for Samuel could easily have been 858!
Kath
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Information from Soldier's died Great War:
Name: Samuel James Henderson
Birth Place: Workington, Cumberland
Residence: Queen's Ferry, Flintshire
Death Date: 30 Dec 1917
Enlistment Location: Rock Ferry
Rank: Rifleman
Regiment: Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own)
Battalion: 19th (Western) Battalion. (Territorial).
Number: 201595
Type of Casualty: Died
Theater of War: Copenhagen
Comments: Formerly 3454, 7Th Cheshire Regt.
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Well done, Katherine :)
You seem to have sorted out the family.
Now I wonder why the changed from Henderson to Hendren. There were other Hendrens in Cumbria on the censuses. Maybe a whole family name change ???
Gadget
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Hi
Samuel James Henderson's service record is on Ancestry and its definately the correct family. A form completed in Dec 1920 by Mary James Henderson names children Ruth 26, William 20, Samuel 17 and Harold 12. There are possible births for Samuel & Harold in Birkenhead with the surname Henderson.
Andy
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Hi
Googling shows that Hendren could be a variation of Henderson and seems to hail from Ireland. It looks like Samuel James Hendren/Henderson was actually born in Ireland. According to the 1881 census at Seaton, Cumberland RG11 Piece 5175 Folio 59 Page 41
John HENDREN 36 born Ireland
Margt HENDREN 30 born Ireland
Sam J HENDREN 9 born Ireland
Wm C HENDREN 7 born Ireland
Mary J HENDREN 4 born Camerton?, Cumberland
In the 1891 census at Workington Cumberland RG12 Piece 4306 Folio 104 Page 12
John HENDERSON 46 born Ireland, Armagh
Margaret HENDERSON 40 born Ireland, Armagh
Sam James HENDERSON 18 born Ireland, Armagh
William HENDERSON 17 born Ireland, Armagh
Mary Jane HENDERSON 14 born Workington, Cumberland
Agnes HENDERSON 8 born Workington, Cumberland
John Archy HENDERSON 5 born Scotland, Glasgow
Samuel's service record names his parents as John & Margaret.
The IGI has a birth of Samuel James HENDREN, born Armagh, Ireland 24th May 1871, father John HENDREN, mother Margaret CONNELLY.
Andy
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wow!!!!!!!!!!!
what can i say, a big thanks to you all for all the help and info you have given me, i have still not digested it all yet, and still one or two things i need to clear up, but i am so pleased as i now have a good foundation to work through the family tree, excellent!!!!!.
So basically the story so far is samuel james hendren and his family came to workington, at some point he met Mary jane who already had a son and daughter, they moved to birkenhead and in 1901 had william c hendren.
so that's the basic simplified story?
so now comes the question and answear part, i know you have all done enough already helping me, but bear with me a little longer please!! just to clear up a few things.
just going to sort out what essential questions i feel i need help answeared and then will get back to the forum very shortly.
regards
james
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Hi James :)
Just a little point.
I think the information that Kath found suggests that Samuel and Mary Jane married in 1891, so the two elder children (aged 7 and 4 in 1901) are likely to be William's full siblings.
Hi,
There is a marriage in the Sep qtr 1891, reg dist Cockermouth for a Samuel James Henderson, the page number is 853.
For the same qtr and reg dist, there is a marriage listed for Mary Jane Russell, the page number is 858.
Looking at the two images, I think that the one for Samuel could easily have been 858!
Kath
Gadget
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hi gadget, that's good news indeed, been very busy over the weekend so not been able to fully digest all the info that has been given.
so not realy any reason why they decided on the name henderson and then later went back to his original name of Hendren, wonder if it could have been something to do with when he joined the army?
would they have changed there name legally or just within the family?
wonder if Andy has got a copy of his service record
and what would be the form that his wife Mary filled in -- in 1920 when it names the children's age etc and she appears to have gone back to the name henderson on the form, yet her son William(my grandfather) married 1925 under the name hendren.
so it was the correct Samuel who died while serving with the rifle regiment?
cheers
james
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i notice that the 1881 census says he was born in Ireland, but the SDGW says he was born in workington,
is this just a mistake by sdgw?
many thanks
james
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HI James
Just seen your post and If Andy can't help out with military info I dont mind sending it over to you. I have sent you a PM with my email address. I cant remember if it shows to public view in my profile or not.
Wendy
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thanks wendy, excellent!! just sent you pm with my email address
james
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HI
Email sent - happy reading, maybe with a magnifying glass for some on the sheets, LOL
Wendy :D
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Would just like to say a massive big thanks to--
Gadget
Angelfish
Daisypetal
Andycard
Katherinem
and last but not least Winston - wendy
I started off trying to research my grandfather and out of this, thanks to the above mentioned a whle new branch of my family tree has opened up.
you have all been fantastic!!!!
a very merry christmas to you all!!!!!!!!!
regards
james
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The IGI has a birth of Samuel James HENDREN, born Armagh, Ireland 24th May 1871, father John HENDREN, mother Margaret CONNELLY.
hi james,
the birth that andy gave you from the igi took place in markethill,county armagh. markethill is on the road from armagh city to newry.
i've only just caught your thread,armagh got my attention :),and thought i'd post the info.
tony
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cheers Tony thanks for that, will have to google and see if i can get any pics of the place.
i have been to scotland, wales, but never Ireland, think that will have to change.
cheers Tony
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hi ther, got the birth cert, the one gadget gave vol 08 page 514, but just checked my mothers wedding cert and it states her fathers name as william C Hendren, where as the 1901 birth cert just says william hendren.
have i sent for the correct birth cert do you think?
cheers
Hi James,
Meant to say :D My husbands grandfather's birth reg, baptism all had the name William, yet when he married (twice) he had a middle name John, I noticed on his baptism that his godparent was John. Another of my husbands ancestors converted to Catholicism and suddenly had a middle name of her godmother's first name. Wonder if this is the case with William.
Hope you have a lovely Christmas.
Kath