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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: carolgriff on Tuesday 02 December 08 12:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi
After a couple of years I think I have made a beakthrough re my Charles family of Stotfold. To recap my Jabez Charles is the son of James and Mary Charles, Jabez was baptised Stotfold 1831, all of his siblings were also baptised there.
I have never found a marriage for Jabez' parents James and Mary and her maiden name was never given on any baptisms. 1851 census in stotfold shows Mary was born Sandon Herts and 1861 says something like Rysden Herts. James and Mary did have a child after 1837- Emma circa 1838 but I have never found a birth registered.
I have finally obtained a baptism cert of a female CHARLES born Stotfold 9 April 1838. dad is James Charles a labourer and mam is Mary Charles formerly BROWN.
Im pretty sure this could be Jabez' parents, all I need now is to find a marriage and a baptism for Mary. She will have been born about 1792 and I think they had their first child in Stotfold around 1815. IGI has Jabez and Jessie Browns as being baptised in Stotfold- names used by my Charles family- coincidence, a link or just popular names?
Any thoughts?
Carol
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You have probably seen it, but there are 2 Charles births in the district of Biggleswade (which includes Stotfold) 1838 - Jun Qtr Female CHARLES Sep Qtr Emily CHARLES
Trish
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Hello again Carol
If you check the Hertfordshire Allen Marriage Index, which is now online at https://www.hertsdirect.org/ufs/ufsmain?esessionid=E13A730D728928E8F4643DDC48E20C32_2 , there's a marriage at Bygrave Herts on 13 March 1813 between James Charles of Stotfold and Mary Males
Bygrave is a couple of miles east of Stotfold, and 4 miles from Rushden where there's the baptism of a Mary Mailes on 5 Jan 1794 on the IGI. We speculated before that Rysden was either Rushden or Royston.
David
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There were two James Charles, father and son, each with a wife Mary, in Stotfold, one starting to reproduce when his father left off (in fact there was a bit of an overlap). I suspect that you have the younger James, born c 1815 at Stotfold, whose wife Mary was born c1814 at St Pauls Walden, Herts. Unfortunately we only only get one bite of the cherry at her age/birthplace as she was dead by 1861 and James had remarried.
The younger James Charles had a daughter, Sarah, who was 3 in 1841. It looks as though you have the certificate for this child.
Odd, as I can't find a marriage to Mary Brown. Who I assume to be the younger James was married on 8 Nov 1834 at Stotfold to Mary Craft. Unless she was born Mary Brown and had married Mr Craft and was a widow when she married James Charles, but I can't find such a marriage. There's no chance Brown is a badly written Croft?
David
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Hi All
i was just wondering re the posibility of Brown being a previous married name. This is the first birth cert i have for Bedfordshire, is the wording usually "charles formerly Brown"I too thought James jnr married Mary Craft- it definately looks like a Brown. i can scan and forwrad to whoever might be interested, just ask.
Thanks for the marriage details for Mary Males- I will have a look at that now.
Seems like my female Charles born 1838 could be James Juniors Sarah just as easily as my Emma, im sure I have ruled the Emily Charles out before but cant remember how - sorry.
Anyway imglad I have the cert as either way it appears to be relatives of mine- James jnr was my Jabez'solder brother and it would be good to know who Mary Brown is.
Thanks so much for the input.
Carol
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Me again
thought id list the other certs I have just received incase they are of help or anyone can throw any light on who informants are etc
death Mary Charles of Stotfold 22 nOV 1865 74 years widow of James Charles farm labourer, bronchitis, informant the mark of Jane gentle in attendance Stotfold.
death James Charles 14 Feb 1858 Stotfold 66 years almsman formerly an agricultural labourer, fever certified, informant the mark of Mary Balls present at the death Stotfold.
I assume these are James and Mary nee Males- my Jabez's parents.
Finally
death Richard Charles 13 Sept 1837 Biggleswade 81 years labourer, old age, informant Thomas Birt master of union workhouse Biggleswade.
Im thinking this could be the Richard Charleswho is in Bedford gaol aged 78 in 1832 from Stotfold - possibly James dad? I see James son Jesse seems to have spent time here also.
Anyway- if anyone wants copies of the certs, let me know.
Im off to explore that Herts marriage site now.
carol
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xxxx formerly xxxxx is the standard wording nationwide for the mother on a child's birth cert.
David
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I see that link that I gave to the Allen Marriage Index has stopped working. Try https://www.hertsdirect.org/ufs/ufsmain?formid=HALS_INDEXES
James Charles doesn't seem to have been baptised as an infant, although there's an adult christening in Stotfold in 1812 of a James Charles aged 19 which looks like him. Unfortunately no parents are mentioned. Richard Charles looks to have been a baptist, who didn't do infant baptisms, as there are two births registered in Biggleswade Baptist Church book where the parents are Richard and Elizabeth. There's also a baptism of Frances Charles in 1806 in Stotfold where her parents are named as Richard & Elizabeth, with a birth date of 8 Jan 1789 added for good measure. I think James was probably the son of Richard and Elizabeth but proving it is another matter altogether
David
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Hi
That Allen marriage index is great- think I wore the link out!
I too think Richard Charles and Elizabeth were baptist, Im thinking all the charles baptisms on IGI at that time may have been their kids
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It look like when some of the kids gt older they were baptised elsewher eg francis and my James, maybe when they were to marry? I realise proving it is probably impossible so this is definately my maybe family - fun to look at all the same.
Looking at Richard Charles and Elizabeth - Im betting shes Eizabeth Lincoln - an older woman in his life -as i was kindly given some info from overseerers reports- maybe from David? that states amongst other enries-mon 27 sept 1813 Richard Charles wanted relief, his wife was 78- or could just be an error.
Which elizabeth lincoln is she i wonder?
A big thanks once again to this helpful forum.
carol
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Whilst only half of the births registered in Biggleswade baptist church register named parents Richard and Elizabeth, the fact that Frances born 18 Jan 1789 per the Baptist records was baptised in Stotfold on 27 Apr 1806, with a birth date of 8 Jan 1789, links the Biggleswade Richard and Elizabeth with the Stotfold Richard and Elizabeth. Whilst not cast iron proof I find it pretty conclusive.
The 1813 reference was from Samuel Whitbread's Notebooks. He was the local magistrate. There's an Elizabeth Charles age 60 buried in Stotfold on 22 Dec 1813, which looks about right datewise, bearing in mind that she was having children until 1796. Age 78 in 1813 can't work as she'd be too old to have had a child in 1796. On baptism in 1764 Richard was described as "about 6". The whole family seems to have been baptised together, including Elizabeth, widow, which is odd as there's no burial of a John until 26 Feb 1770, Labourer.
David
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Hi
i too think the Frances baptism liks everyone up and thanks for taking the time to consider it. As far as Elizabeths age its a mystery as to why 78 in 1813- 60 seems more reasonable, thanks for the info re John Charles burial and that all of the early Charles seem to have been baptised together. i dont know enough about the times they lived in to hazard a guess as to why delayed baptims- did the church maybe offer relief etc to its converts i wonder?
Certainly looks like Richards mam and dad were john and elizabeth- cant explain how she was widowed so long before his burial though- wonder if he was maybe in the army or prison ect etc- gaps between siblings makes me think he was away, of course other siblings could have died. Maybe he was preumed dead and then returned????
Thanks again
Carol
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Carol,
I don't know if you have the following, which I got some years ago from the Beds Co. Archivist, who did some research for me:
· Charlie born 14th October 1783 Registered 15th February 1800
· Thomas born 24th February 1785 Registered 15th February 1800
· Frances born 18th January 1789 Registered 15th February 1800
· James born 10th April 1794 Registered 15th February 1800
· William born 28th April 1796 Registered 15th February 1800
from the Biggleswade Baptist register. It seems given the names that these could be other than Richard & Elizabeth Charles' offspring, I think
Hope this helps a wee bit,
John
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Oops!
I meant "could not be other than"!
John
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Thanks John
It does look lke the family were baptists and waited to do mass baptisms doesnt it?
Carol
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The Sarah Charles mentioned here is a 5th generation direct descendent of mine. She was born c1840 and died Nov 1906 - she's buried in plot no. 656, old section of Stotfold Cemetery. I used to be able to access all the records for the cemetery here http://www.stotfoldtowncouncil.gov.uk/Core/StotfoldTC/Pages/Cemetery_Search_2.aspx (http://www.stotfoldtowncouncil.gov.uk/Core/StotfoldTC/Pages/Cemetery_Search_2.aspx) but for some reason it is no longer working... a great shame it's been VERY helpful.
Sarah Charles was the 2nd (possibly 3rd) wife of Jonathan Gentle (1824-1900)
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Hi
http://www.stotfoldtowncouncil.gov.uk/Core/StotfoldTC/Pages/Cemetery_2.aspx
Ray
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But unfortunately the Cemetery Search, which is the vital bit, on the left throws up a run time error. I've reported it.
David
Later. Stotfold Town Council say "Thank you for your email regarding the Cemetery search facility on our website. We have had a software error and are working to resolve this with our supplier."
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Hello aca67,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am very sorry but we have been unable to pass on your message to Carol as her email address is not working :'( :'( I have done a search for her on the internet but not been able to find the right lady.
Regards
Sarah