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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Daniels-mum on Monday 01 December 08 23:07 GMT (UK)
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I'm not sure if I've done this correctly but I've tried to copy the link to another thread I started in the common room. I wonder if anyone can identify where or when this photo might have been taken? It was suggested that someone is Australia might be able to help! The sign in the photo says 42 mile camp, and I believe there's a place called 42 Mile Crossing in South Australia, so I don't know if there might be a connection.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,345027.0.html
Any suggestions gratefully received!!
Thanks.
Helen
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Gum trees in the background? Yes. ;D
Wouldn't be 42 Mile Crossing in SA - actually been there :)
42-Mile Crossing
Information ~ camp sites ~ walking trail ~ picnic shelter ~ toilet ~ surf fishing
So named because of its distance from Kingston, this is the closest point for conventional vehicles to the beach. A pleasant 20 minute walk along the easily accessible trail from the camp ground and through the sand dunes brings you to the crashing waves of the Southern Ocean.
The ocean beach and the five vehicle (4WD only) entry points to the beach can be extremely treacherous during and following storm conditions. To protect the hooded plover the ocean beach is closed to vehicles from 24 October to 24 December each year. This closure applies to the beach from Tea Tree Crossing to the Murray Mouth.
Camps were named in a similar fashion when railways were built but this looks quite a 'permanent' camp. Early farm settlers? Note what appears to be limestone base for the galvanised water tank...very Australian.
This photo is very reminiscent of my grandparents' first 'home' in the north west of Victoria when it was opened for settlement in 1909-1912, however this photo would be in an earlier period. I would say they are in their best clothes...certainly not working clothes. My 98 year old father tells me that he and his parents lived in tents with wooden floors...usually two tents, one for daily living and one for sleeping. Cooking was usually done outside on a wood stove. They lived this way while their new home was being erected. A little aside..he remembers sitting on the scaffolding while the stone mason slowly built the home....he adds he probably drove the poor bloke mad with his chatter.
It looks like a fence or some similar structure behind the tent...probably a yard to keep in stock.
I could be wrong and often am but I would say definitely in Australia and perhaps a farm settlement in the 1890's.
Cheers
Cando
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Could it be Sacramento California? (Looks like mountains in the back)
http://www.trailbikesportsmen.org/campgrounds/packsaddlepass.htm
http://www.calwild.org/resources/pubs/rs2477.pdf
http://www.calwild.org/press/release_030404.php
Janice
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Sacramento History:
http://www.sacramentohistory.org/
Sacramento Gold Rush
http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-West/Sacramento-History.html
Janice
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I think you will find that the 'mountains' are actually the tops of mallee trees - eucalyptus, also known as gum trees.
http://www.environment.gov.au/parks/biosphere/riverland/images/mallee-tree-stand.jpg
Cheers
Cando
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I think you're right. (Where's my glasses? ;D )
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Probably where mine are Janice ;)....always looking for them ;D
Cheers
Cando
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I would say definitely Australia :) The gum trees give it away!
As for the name 42 Mile Camp...it could mean anything, and probably bears no relation to any modern place names. Perhaps the family were given their selection and it was 42 miles out of wherever they started from? That was the usual way that "x-Mile" places got their names :) Just look at the number of 6-Mile Creeks there are in Australia today!
I think the trees are too tall to be mallee (not an expert though), but they are definitely eucalypts of some kind. I don't think there's much chance of ID-ing exactly where this place is, unless Helen has some idea of who in the family came to Australia, and when? We might be able to track them down :)
Cheers
Prue
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Oh Prue some mallee [eucalypt] trees are quite tall.. ;)
As I sit at my computer I can see four different species of mallee that are much taller than our machinery shed which is 22 ft high. These mallee trees are part of remnant scrubland.
Now we need some names Helen ;D
Cheers
Cando
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Hi there,
Not sure if these bits help at all. From a Google search in Australia:
The longest walking trail in the Coorong (27 km) starts at Salt Creek and extends south to the 42 Mile Crossing. This trail links four other interesting but shorter walks focusing on wildlife, scenery, early settlement of Chinese people and the sand dune systems.
Good quality bush camp sites are available along the nearby Loop Road.
From: http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/parks/sanpr/coorong/visit.html
and more:
Some of the camp grounds (42 Mile Crossing, Parnka Point, Long Point and Mark Point) are large enough for caravans to manoeuvre. If you prefer water and power supplies and ablution blocks, caravan parks are located at Meningie, Policeman's Point and Kingston.
From: http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/parks/sanpr/coorong/faqs.html
Hope this helps. I too agree that the trees in your picture are some of the 400 + Euclaypt species and the shrubby one at left of the image could be either a scrubby Mallee (Eucalypt sp.) or a wattle (Acacia sp.)
Regards
Bob
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I did wonder at the sign on the horse also? Perhaps the horse belongs to the photographer ( maybe the roving type) and he just hung an appropiate sign around his horse's neck wherever he took photographs.
Prue, he no doubt would have to have developed the photographs elsewhere and need a way to identify where and when perhaps?
Is the little bit of stone wall we can see perhaps a well?
a lovely photo what history it can tell.
Jenn
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I would say the [lime]stone wall is the base for the galvanised water tank ...reply#1 This type of base was superseded by iron and timber tank stands. There is also an elevated tank.
Limestone was also used to build homes...thick walls and high ceilings and built by fine Cornish stone masons.
I have a similar photo but is in extremely poor condition..but including the mallee trees ;D
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks everyone for your interesting comments and observations. I think we can safely assume it's Australia!
I've just spoken to my mother-in-law and the photo belonged to her mother (Ellen Wheeler 1894-1986). She says that Ellen's mother (Elizabeth Harris 1864-1957) had a sister in Australia - but unfortunately more than that we don't know.The sisters were Harriett Harris b 1861, Edith Harris b 1868 and Charlotte Harris b 1870. One of them had a daughter (or possibly grandaughter) called Violet as my mother-in-law remembers meeting her when she was a child. So it looks like it might be either Harriett, Edith or Charlotte in the photo though I don't know who they married. Having said all that my mum-in-law says it could also go another generation back and be a relative of Elizabeth Harris's mother, Harriet Barnard, in which case the surname would be Barnard (the Barnards were also in South Africa which is why she thought the photo was taken there). Oh dear! How I wish everyon wrote names on the back of photos ;D
Thanks again to everyone - your time and effort is much appreciated. Cando I was really interested to hear of your grandfathers recollections, as that really fits the photo.
Helen
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I think that if you give us the sisters parents names that we can have a go at seeing if one of them married in Australia.
Jenn
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Thanks for that offer Jenn! The sisters' parents were called Samuel James Harris (b 1837 - silversmith) and Harriet Barnard (b 1834) and the sisters were all born in London.
Regards
Helen
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hello Helen,
do you happen to know the girls married names, I tried to figure it out from the census etc but Harris is a common name. There are a lot of births in Sa with the mother being, Edith, Charlotte and Harriet Harris.
Jenn
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Hi Jenn
No, unfortunately I don't know who any of the sisters married :( Maybe my only hope is if someone reads this one day and recognises the names.....
Thanks anyway,
Helen
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Hi
Came across this today. I really don't think it's the Coorong 42 Mile Creek crossing as the scrub is fairly low there and it's very sandy even for quite a way back from the beach.
Deanne
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Hi Deanne,
Mentioned this way back in the thread and I agree not the Coorong 42 mile creek but definitely in Australia.
Cheers
Cando
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Sorry Cando. obviously missed that bit amongst all the discussion ;)
I know it is definitely not Coorong as my family come from down there.
As you and others have discussed though there are many 42 Mile Creeks, Crossings and Camps so it could be anywhere.
Deanne
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had a little fun in photoshop and decided to put them into what I think could be a family group, ie ma, pa etc. Son no. 2 could just as easily be a grand son.
I am sure others may disagree ;D
also think the pic was taken about mid to late 1870's, as I think there is a slight bustle thing going on with the dresses, but could be wrong ::)
Margaret
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Hi Helen,
I have paraphrased a reply I received from a descendant of Elizabeth Wheeler/Harris my own line is through Elizabeth's brother James who was also a silversmith in the Barnard firm. titania- @- aanet- . -com .- au
"Samuel James Harris and his wife Harriet (nee Barnard) had 12/14 children
and of these:
Samuel - was a gold and silversmith in Hatton Garden, London. His wife used
to come home drunk and batter him, he left her to live with someone called
Milly . This must be either a sister of
Samuel or possibly a wife of one of Samuel's brothers! He made two small silver thimbles which he probably made while working for Barnard and sons
Charles - had 2 daughters Elsie and May. May had a son called Colin who went
to Australia.
Edith - married an Alf Ingle and emigrated to New Zealand. They had 5
daughters Flossie, VI, Winnie, Chrissie and Ivy. Vi married someone called
Jack who was the son of Hollywood star John Bunny. When Ivy died, her
husband married her sister Chrissie.
Charlotte - married someone with the surname MacDonald, there were no
children.
Harriet - had a son called Arthur, he went to Australia. Her daughter Carry
married a sailor and she mysteriously disappeared and was never found,
her husband on his deathbed confessed to murdering her and putting her body
in a geyser (in New Zealand presumably).
Edward - married Alice and had 2 children Edward and Ethel.
Samuel James Harris had a brother who went to Africa or India and was mauled
to death by either a lion or tiger. This brother was also twisted out of his
estate by his manager.
The Barnards went to South Africa and worked in the gold mines, there
may be a link with gold and silversmiths. I also have some photos of the
Barnards."
Do you have any pictures of either the Harris or Barnard families regards Sue
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hi all
I think the tall man by the cow has just delivered it to the family in this photo
also the pony in the photo looks to have its winter coat which would indicate
cool weather . and the saddle looks to be a GP saddle commonly use in Australia
the dress dose sort of indicate the 1880 8)s
the dress of the tall man is typical of how my ancestors dressed in this country
it looks to be in Australia . Good luck with your quest
This is one great photo .
cheers chuter 8)