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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: morris minor on Monday 01 December 08 23:02 GMT (UK)

Title: What can I try next
Post by: morris minor on Monday 01 December 08 23:02 GMT (UK)
I accidently interrupted someone else's thread (sorry!) about historical newspapers.

I am trying to trace the death of my great aunt, Ethel Rogers who was born June 1893. (Wallasey)
Family history (pinch of salt coming up) was that she fell from a window when either she was approx 2 years or her sister (born 1895) was approx 2 years.
To date I have not been able to trace her death in the registers, therefore I wondered if it was possible to search the appropriate newspapers (pref locally)
any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you.
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: celia on Monday 01 December 08 23:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Morris
I got your P.M I wasn't on line when you sent it,I forgot to log off ::) The wallasey Library have the wallasey news on film  but i cannot remember how far back it goes so if you are not sure when the accident happened.You will have to do quiet a bit of trawling.I would suggest you book the machine they only have one and it has been busy of late with out of town users.Also he could have had a mention in the birkenhead newspapers.They are in the archives in Birkenhead

Celia
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: andycand on Tuesday 02 December 08 01:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Morris

Do you have a copy of Ethels 1893 birth certificate to confirm its the right Ethel? There is another Ethel Rogers born 1898 father Frank, mother Jane, who may have died in 1909 age 10.

Andy
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: morris minor on Tuesday 02 December 08 10:09 GMT (UK)
At present I have only the 'short' birth certificate, the original.(I am going to get the full certificate)
My great grandparents were Ernest Rogers and Maria Evelyn (usually referred to as Evelyn) Rogers (nee Hughes).
Is it worth me looking at burial records for Rake Lane, as Ernest and Evelyn are buried there? (I have no records of the plot being purchased)

Ethel's date of Birth was 13 July 1893. After that she disappears from the family. The fact that my great aunt (younger) knew about Ethel implies that nothing too scandalous happened but we have no known photographs. (only a few of my great aunt and my grandfather)
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 02 December 08 11:12 GMT (UK)
Do you know that poor Ethel was local when she had her accident? If she was away, on hol or visiting rellies thwn there is this death -
Jul/Aug/Sep 1897
Ethel Rogers age 3
Birmingham
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: millymcb on Tuesday 02 December 08 11:19 GMT (UK)
Is this them in 1901?   Father Ernest a blacksmith (age 28 born Acton, Lancs), mother Evelyn? 

RG13/3406/116/28

Living in Wallasy with father Samuel, sister Annie and a daughter, Mabel, aged 6 and a nephew Edward?

If so, then Ethel is not there which would lend a lot of weight to the story she died very young...sometime between 1893 and 1901 at least...  If her sister was 2 then possibly about 1896-1898?

Milly
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: morris minor on Tuesday 02 December 08 15:15 GMT (UK)
I am amazed at the information you have supplied millymcb!

I am only in the early stages of tracing the family. I have a number of original birth, marriage and death certs. but as I am realising from reading other people's messages, it is not really surprising when I say there is no consistency about whose documents have survived 'life'.

I know that Ernest was a blacksmith and where the smithy was(there are some photos surviving) and my great aunt told me stories about him shoeing the horses for funerals (and how social rank could be determined by the number of horses) I didn't know that he was born in Acton, Lancs!
I know Ernest's father was Samuel.
I knew that Ernest had a sister Anne. (she died when I was a young child ans she is always referred to as Auntie Anne)
I have never heard of a nephew Edward. (not sure whose child he would be, definitely not Anne's as she was a spinster.
Thank you for the info, it is fascinating. Ethel still eludes me though!

I traced an Ethel Rogers who died in Audley which I thought might fit the info but it turned out to be a false trail.
I had considered that they may have been on holiday, but I know of no reason why they would be in Birmingham.






Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: celia on Tuesday 02 December 08 16:08 GMT (UK)
Morris
I dont want to appear rude but are you sure you have the right information.I found this death.

1909
Rogers. Ethel May age 10 S.D Wallasey Reg Wirral

 the age is way out but :-\

Celia  P.S the above Ethel was born 1898 in wallasey reg Wirral
Ref Wal/67/77
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: celia on Tuesday 02 December 08 16:38 GMT (UK)
Quote
1909 age 10.

Andy

I didnt see that bit andy ::)

Celia
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: millymcb on Tuesday 02 December 08 20:55 GMT (UK)
Nephew Edward seems to be called Edward Rumford (at least that is what it looks like). I presumed as it is a different surname it was most likely to be a son of one of Samuel's sisters but I can't see any marriages for Rogers and Rumford/Romford/Bamford or any other combination. So it may be a so of one of Samuel's wife's siblings....or it is written down wrong on the form.


Do you have the other Census info for the family...I think that this is them in 1881...this time it says Ernest is age 10 and born in Wallasey so maybe the later one saying Acton is wrong birthplace. And I just checked again and I should have said Acton Cheshire not Acton Lancashire - sorry!)

1881 CENSUS
Address:    The Village
 
Samuel Rogers    36  (born Wallasey)  General Labourer
Annie Rogers    30 (born Woverham)
Bessie Rogers    5 months (born Wallasey)
Cyril Rogers    2 (born Wallasey)
Arthur Rogers    4  (born Wallasey)
Frank Rogers    7  (born Wallasey)
Ernest Rogers    10  (born Wallasey)
Maggie Jane Rogers    12 (born Woverham)
Robert James Rogers    13 (born Woverham) Messenger


RG11/3589/21/36


Living next door is a family John & Elizabeth Kitchen - daughters Alice Maud Mary, Mabel and a niece Alice Rogers.   Not sure if there is a connection there but seems possible.

There is a death for a Cyril Rogers age 15 which could be him.
Sep Quarter 1893   Birkenhead    8a   401      

It is quite close to the supposed death of Ethel - maybe if you found his grave she may have been buried with him? Or failing that - maybe with Samuel's wife Annie - who does not appear in the 1891 census and this could be her death age 36

March Quarter 1887   Birkenhead    8a   380    


I was hoping to find some Birmingham connection but nothing obvious

Milly
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: millymcb on Tuesday 02 December 08 21:11 GMT (UK)
Here's the full transcript of 1901

1901 CENSUS Ernest Rogers
Address 136 Wallasey Road, Wallasey, Cheshire
 
Ernest Rogers    28 HEAD (born Acton, Cheshire) Blacksmith
Evelyn Rogers    28 WIFE (born Egremont, Cheshire)
Mabel Rogers    6  DAUGHTER(born New Brighton? Cheshire)
Annie Rogers    14  SISTER (born Wallasey)
Samuel Rogers    56 FATHER (born Wallasey) Foreman water main layer 
Edward Rumford    4 NEPHEW (born Egremont, Cheshire) (hard to read...Rumford, Romford, Bamford - possibly Rainford?)
   
RG13/3406/116/28.

Milly
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: millymcb on Tuesday 02 December 08 21:36 GMT (UK)
And the same family in 1891 ..... Ernest born in Acton again along with the older siblings!  It looks like the right family to me - Ernest born Acton with father Samuel - and sister Annie born right year but you should check against your certificates. Especially to see if Ernest's mother/Samuel's wife was called Annie. 

1891 CENSUS -
20 Walmsley Street (I think that is what it says), Egremont,Cheshire

Samuel Rogers    47 WIDOWER GENERAL LABOURER (born Wallasey)
Robert J Rogers    23 SON GENERAL LABOURER (born Acton)
Maggie J Rogers    22 DAUGHTER (born Acton)
Ernest Rogers            20 SON GENERAL LABOURER (born Acton)
Frank Rogers           17 SON ??'s ASSISTANT (born Wallasey)
Arthur Rogers           15 SON ??'s ASSISTANT (born Wallasey)
Cyril Rogers           12 SON CHANDLER'S ASSISTANT (born Wallasey)
Bessie Rogers          10 DAUGHTER (born Wallasey)
Mary E Rogers     8 DAUGHTER (born Wallasey)
Annie M Rogers    4 DAUGHTER (born Wallasey)
 
RG12/2895/108/10



and

1871 CENSUS
ADDRESS The Village, Wallasey

Samuel Rogers    26  (born Wallasey) GARDENER
Annie Rogers    20 (born Weaverham, Cheshire)
Ernest Rogers    2 months (born Weaverham, Cheshire)
Maggie E Rogers    2 (born Weaverham, Cheshire)
Robert Jas Rogers 3 (born Weaverham, Cheshire)

RG10/3753/19/29

Weaverham is apparently near Acton.

Sorry - still no nearer finding a clue for Ethel!

Milly
 ;D
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: celia on Tuesday 02 December 08 23:58 GMT (UK)
Morris from Free B.M.D this time A BIRTH


Ethel Rogers July 1/4 Month September 1893 Reg B/H
ref 8a 598  births in and around wallasey used to be registered in the old bank on King street seacombe.By a visiting registrar once a week.I registered my kids there ;D
It was for the benefit of those that couldn't get to the town hall in birkenhead.Just thought i would mention that so as not to be confused as to where registered ;)

Celia
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: morris minor on Thursday 04 December 08 09:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you for all the information Celia and Milly. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.(No computer access!)

Quote
At present I have only the 'short' birth certificate, the original.(I am going to get the full certificate

Ethel's birth was registered in Wallasey. You have helped me discover family members that I didn't know about before and will help keep me out of mischief!!  ;D

I will book the film reader at Wallasey library and explore the 'News'. (I will try not to let myself be sidetracked :))

Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: millymcb on Thursday 04 December 08 22:35 GMT (UK)
Good Luck... ;D
Title: Re: What can I try next
Post by: Certacito on Monday 08 December 08 22:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you for all the information Celia and Milly. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.(No computer access!)

Quote
At present I have only the 'short' birth certificate, the original.(I am going to get the full certificate

Ethel's birth was registered in Wallasey. You have helped me discover family members that I didn't know about before and will help keep me out of mischief!!  ;D

I will book the film reader at Wallasey library and explore the 'News'. (I will try not to let myself be sidetracked :))



I can't remember the dates but before the Wallasey News came into being, all the Wallasey stuff was reported in the Birkenhead News which can of course be viewed at Birkenhead central library. I found a great great grandfather being done for drunk and disorderly that way. He was fitted up, honest guv!   ;D