RootsChat.Com

Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: pnewbery on Monday 01 December 08 11:53 GMT (UK)

Title: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Monday 01 December 08 11:53 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

Can someone help please. I'm looking for family details of Sarah Ann Robinson who I believe was born around 1858.
This would make her about 3 in 1861 and, obviously 13 in 1871.

I know nothing else about her save that she married William Grocock, my great Grandfather in 1888, some 8 years after my Grandmother was born. So either it was a second marriage or poor grandma wasn't strictly legit! I'm rather hoping it was a second marriage, and it looks possible as there were no other offspring after my grandmother for another 10 years.

I need to get Grandma's birth cert!

Cheers

Paul Newbery
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 11:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul,

Have you found the family in 1891 and does the 1891 census give a birth place for Sarah Ann?

 :)

 
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 12:02 GMT (UK)
Oh wait - was your grandmother Beatrice Grocock?

If so, I think you'll find out she was probably Beatrice Ann Robinson:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=204147
RG11/1653 97 4

She's down as David and Anne's daughter but was probably their granddaughter instead.
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 12:05 GMT (UK)
Likely birth:

Beatrice Annie E Robinson
Jun 1880 Hemel Hempstead 3a 498

There is no birth for a Beatrice Grocock that I can see, nor do I see a Beatrice Grocock in the 1881 census. William Grocock is an unmarried Engine Driver in 1881:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=14093866
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 15:45 GMT (UK)
1871
RG10/1388 71 37 & 38
Flamstead, Hertfordshire

David Robinson, head, 37, Dress Maker
Anne, wife, 37, Grocer's Assistant
Walter W, son, 16, ditto
Gustavius, son, 14, scholar
Sarah A, dau, 12, scholar
Ernest R, son, 10, scholar

All born Flamstead, Hertfordshire
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Monday 01 December 08 16:40 GMT (UK)
Woah!!

Just when you thought you had your family history sorted, some kind soul taps you on the shoulder and says, "Ahem, if you don't mind my sayin' so, it weren't quite like that."  ???

Many thanks Tati for pointing out the error of my ways and for finding all that valuable information on the Robinsons for me.

I've found a record of birth for a Beatrice Annie Robinson, registered in September Quarter 1880, which more or less fits. Her Birthday was 18th March. Only trouble is, if her name was given as Robinson, that kind of indicates she was born out of wedlock. Doh! Not another illegitimate grandparent!

I'm going to have to get Beatrice Annie's birth cert to find out what's on it now aren't I?

Ain't Rootschat Maaaaahveluss!!

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Monday 01 December 08 17:00 GMT (UK)
Just had a slightly discomfiting thought.

It COULD be that David was indeed Beatrice Annie's father.

I guess that sort of thing is not a modern invention after all.   :-\

Paul N.
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 17:12 GMT (UK)
I hope not, Paul!!  :o

It's not that unusual to see people putting down their illegitimate daughter's children as their own children on a census form  :)
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Monday 01 December 08 17:16 GMT (UK)
Also - given she was born in Hemel Hempsted / Flamstead, don't you think the June quarter birth registration I posted earlier is the most likely one?

The one you mention  - Sep 1880 St Albans, I suppose - is with her parents William and Frances on the 1901 census, born and residing St Albans.

 :)
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Monday 01 December 08 17:49 GMT (UK)
You are almost certainly correct about the birth record Tati. I don't know how I missed that one myself!

Anyhoo, even if I do get Beatrice Annie's birth cert, there's no guarantee the father's name will be given.

Got to be done though.

Thanks again

Paul
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Tuesday 16 December 08 18:49 GMT (UK)
Well I got my Grandma's birth cert and sure enough, no father's name is given, so she was born as Beatrice Annie Robinson. Must have had her name changed when Pa Grocock married Sarah Ann Robinson,

Hey ho. Looks like I'll never find out about that leg of the family.  :-\

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Tuesday 16 December 08 19:16 GMT (UK)
Bad luck indeed! No clue in her 2nd middle name E, I suppose?  :-\
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: pnewbery on Thursday 18 December 08 09:17 GMT (UK)
Perhaps the "E" is a clue, but I'm afraid it means nowt to me.

Thanks anyway.

Paul
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Gooders on Friday 05 June 09 20:53 BST (UK)
My thanks to all on this message chain,

I am currently researching those individuals named on the Flamstead War Memorial, including one Walter Robinson, of the 4th Battalion the Royal Fusiliers, who was killed 27th August 1918.

I had some information but no record of the family of David & Anne Robinson (as posted by Tati)

What I did have was :

1901 Census

Church Street, Flamstead

Ernest Robinson   Head   30   Farm Labourer (General)      Flamstead
Emily Robinson   Wife   32   Straw Hat Sewer         Flamstead
Ralph Robinson   Son   11               Flamstead
Hugh Robinson   Son   6               Flamstead
Walter Robinson   Son   2               Flamstead

and a note in the Flamstead Church Records of another Walter

St Leonards

Walter Robinson was baptised 20 November 1898, parents were Walter & Maria Ellen of Flamstead

So many thanks for that.

Simon
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Tati on Saturday 06 June 09 08:16 BST (UK)
and a note in the Flamstead Church Records of another Walter
St Leonards
Walter Robinson was baptised 20 November 1898, parents were Walter & Maria Ellen of Flamstead
I have a suspicion that it's the same Walter but dad's name is wrong on the christening record and mother's name is wrong on the 1901 census :P

There doesn't seem to be another Walter born Flamstead on the 1901 census and tracing the above family back to 1891, this is what I find:

1891
RG12/1125 54 19
Flamstead, Ivy Cottage
3 rooms occupied

Maria E Robinson, head, mar, 23, Straw Plait Sewer, b. Flamstead
Ernest R, son, 1, b. do.

(there isn't a birth for a Ralph, but there is one for an Ernest Ralph in Hemel Hempstead 1890)

Also, in 1911, the family seem to be Ernest, Ellen, Hugh, Walter and Vernon.

Marriage Maria Ellen Bone to Ernest James Robinson Dec 1889 Hemel Hempstead.

 
Title: Re: 1861 / 71 Lookup Request for Sarah Ann Robinson
Post by: Gooders on Saturday 06 June 09 14:26 BST (UK)
Hi Tati,

Very many thanks for this.

I did actually spend some time this morning tracing more of the family of David & Anne Robinson (each b. 1834) and have identified them in the 1861,71,81 and 91 censuses (by which time their children had left home and they had moved to Luton).

Sadly, bar a Walter W Robinson (born 1853), I couldn't find another Walter who might be my WW1 casualty.

This, therefore, ties in well with the news you have sent me this morning.

Although how we are supposed to find things if there are errors in names in both the Christening Record and the 1901 census - I don't know <grin>. You obviously have a much more suspicious mind than myself when I thought there were just too many differences to make a match.

This really helps to take me forward with the details of this man - something for which I am most grateful.

Now I must go and carry on looking at the remaining fifty one casualties ....... no rest for the wicked !

Simon