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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jaypear on Sunday 30 November 08 19:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Fred Taylorcompleted
Post by: jaypear on Sunday 30 November 08 19:46 GMT (UK)
Hi

Can anyone help with lookup for above.  He was born June 18th 1885 around Bury.  Greenmount, Summerseat, Tottington Walmersley area.  A birth record and or 1891 or 1901 census record would be great.  I believe he emigrated to the States as a young man.  I believe his father was John Taylor and mother Annie Levi.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 30 November 08 20:21 GMT (UK)
Hi,

There are plenty of Fred Taylors born around that time in Lancashire, However this one looks the best match.

374 Ramsbottom Road,Greenmount, Tottington Lower End

Betty Whitehead, Head, W, 59, Edgeworth
Thomas, Son, S, 27, Labourer, Walmersley
Richard, Son, S, 23, Labourer, Tottington
Sarah Jane, Daur, 20, Weaver, Tottington
JOHN TAYLOR, Lodger, Widr, 31, Labourer, Summerseat
FRED TAYLOR, Lodger, S, 5, Tottington

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 30 November 08 20:48 GMT (UK)
And I think this is him in the 1901 census with his Grandparents unless you know differently.

97 Albert Road, Farnworth, Lancashire

John Taylor, Head, M, 65, Herbalist Sub Med, Own Account, Home, Derbyshire Twiston Mill (Ripley crossed out)
Mary, Wife, M, 70, Cheshire Runcorn
FRED TAYLOR, Grandson, 15, Cotton Cloth (Finisher has been crossed out), Lancs Tottington.
RG13/3600 Folio 30 page 51.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Monday 01 December 08 16:57 GMT (UK)

Thanks for that.  I am looking this up for a friend in the States who is a descendant of Fred.  She told me that she believed his mother Annie Levi died young and he was brought up by grandparents.  The information that you have turned up fits in perfectly with the info I have found out.

Can I use your brain cells further?  We have been trying to find out a little more about Annie Levi.  We found her marriage details and sent off for the certificate.  There was no mention of either of her parents on it and her place of birth was given as Windermere.  We can only find one reference to her as a lodger in 1881 census, lodging with her future husband's brother and his wife.  I can't find any birth references and with a surname like Levi I wonder whether she may have been born in another country despite putting Windermere as her place of birth.  Any ideas?

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 01 December 08 17:03 GMT (UK)
Hi

Are you sure the marriage cert gave a place of birth as Windermere - UK certs normally give place of residence when married and not place of birth.

Rosie

Ignore this I presume you meant place of birth from the 1881 census  ???
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Monday 01 December 08 17:54 GMT (UK)
I have not seen the marriage certificate myself as yet but hope to soon.  As you say Windermere is given on 1881 census as place of birth.  I was told that it also gave Windermere as place of birth for Annie Levi on the marriage certificate.  Unfortunately I shall have to wait to see a copy of it as am unable to access my email at present.  Computers huh.

A quick question to Mo.  Was it the 1891 census that gave Fred lodging with his father at Betty Whiteheads?  I have tried looking on the ordinary census site but am unable to pick it up.  I would like to print off the actual entry if possible.  Can you tell me where you found it?  Also on the 1901 census you have put John Taylor as grandson should it be Fred.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Monday 01 December 08 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Sorry I have been at work and was just looking for a possible Annie. 

The reference for the 1891 is RG12/3128 folio 30 page 57
The Whiteheads are transcribed as Whitchrad  ::) on A*****y

And yes the 1901 census is Fred not John - I was probably cross eyed. Apologies.

Will have a further look into Annie there is always some explaination hiding.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: rawley on Monday 01 December 08 19:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenny!

Hope you don't mind my putting in my two-cents worth:  If you look at Lancashire BMD, you will find an ANNIE LEVI marrying a JOHN TAYLOR in 1881, Bury Registry Office.  Sounds right, doesn't it?

Kay in USA
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Monday 01 December 08 23:38 GMT (UK)

Hi

Yes we picked that up and sent off for the marriage cert, however there does not seem to be any trace of Annie before the 1881 census and her marriage in 1881.  Her son was born Fred was born in 1885 but I think she died some time after that as in the 1891 census he was staying with his widowed father.  I will try to find her death in Ukbmd perhaps a death certificate will reveal more of this woman of mystery!

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 02 December 08 00:09 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Finding her death looks just as much of a problem ::) 

What church did they married in?  I am just wondering what religion they were and if she is possibly buried in the same church.

By the way, have you noticed that in the 1901 census there is a John Taylor born Summerseat living in Tottington aged 41.  I am wondering if this was Fred`s father who had remarried.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 00:37 GMT (UK)

Hi

I believe he may have remarried because the descendant of Fred has a letter sent to Fred from his father after Fred had emigrated.  In it he thanks him for money sent by Fred and mentions his mother and the children.  I have just been trawling through the Levis on Ancestry and have come up with an Ann Levi born in December qtr of 1856 in Ulverston which is not a million miles from Windermere.  This was on Free BMD.  I wonder if that is her.  Sadly no more info and can't find any mention on 1861 census.  Also no luck with death which  I thought I would easily find on UK BMD.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 10:24 GMT (UK)
Sorry forgot to answer your previous question. They were married in Bury Registry Office, so no church.  However that doesnt mean that she may not have been buried in accordance with her faith, which of course may be Jewish.  Particularly if she had her own family still around.  Regarding the birth entry on Free Bmd, the actual image is just the page of the register on which the date is noted, no details apart from Ann and Parents name Levi.  If I applied to Ulverston are they likely to have anything that gives more details,
 or will they just copy out what is in the register and send it to me?

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 02 December 08 13:33 GMT (UK)
Hi,

The birth certificate will give her date of birth, mothers name, maiden name if she was married and fathers name (if there is one named) along with an address.

This Annie is the only Levi that appears on Births, Deaths and marriages registered in Ulverston on Freebmd regardless of year or first name.  Very strange!  However there was a Robert Levy in 1859.  I would also consider looking for Levey etc.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 02 December 08 15:18 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I think I may have cracked it with the help of the birth of Robert Levy registered Ulverston.

1861 census:
RG9/3112 folio 29 page 30

106 Redlam, Witton, Blackburn. Lancs
Elizabeth Levi, Head, U, 28, Cotton Drawer, Whitehaven Cumberland
ROBERT Levi, Son, 1, Lancashire Buckbarrow  (Probably Backbarrow near Newby Bridge which is at the bottom of Windermere!!!)

Bear with me...............

In 1862 an Elizabeth Levi marries a John Marsden at Blackburn (www.lancashirebmd.org.uk)

1871 census
RG10/4191 folio 44 page 28

8 Witton Street, Witton (Blackburn) Lancashire
John Marsden, Head, M, 45, Greengrocer, Livesey Lancs
ELIZABETH, Wife, M, 36, WHITEHAVEN Cumberland
David Marsden, Son, 8, Scholar, Witton
John A Marsden, Son, 7, Scholar, Witton
ANNIE Marsden, Daur, 14, Cotton Weaver, ULVERSTON
Mary E Marsden, Daur, 3, Witton Lancs

Suddenly we have a mysterious 14 year old Annie!!!

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 02 December 08 15:39 GMT (UK)
And just to finish, I wonder if this is young Annie in the 1861 census:

Backbarrow, Upper Holker, Lancashire
RG9/3165 folio 80 page 9

William Casson, Head, M, 65, Labourer, Bootle Cumberland
Mary, Wife, M, 60, Ulverston
Matthew, Son, U, 24, Hoop Maker, Backbarrow
Thomas, Son, U, 22, Labourer, Backbarrow
Jackson, Son, U, 16, Factory Operative, Backbarrow
ANN LEVI CASSON, Granddaur, U, 4, Scholar, Backbarrow

Pure speculation of course but it does make sense (sort of).  We just need to tie the Cassons in with Elizabeth Levi.  Hey ho!  Backbarrow came under the registration district of Ulverston by the way.

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 17:54 GMT (UK)

Wow this is getting very complicated, however I am sure you are on the right track regarding the Marsdens, as this is a family name mentioned by my friend in the States.  Am not sure where the Cassons fit in but I will have to get my head around all this.  I am going to take copies of everything and send it all over to America and hopefully it will alltie up then.

I will try and get copies of birth certificates etc as well.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 18:05 GMT (UK)
PS. Wonder what happened to young Robert, maybe he died in infancy.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 19:08 GMT (UK)
Yes he died in 1862 on Free BMD.  I have found a marriage for Elizabeth Casson in 1856 in Ulverston on Free BMD but the names on the same page did not include a Levi (y).  Niether did putting in Lev(y) bring anything up . Its all fits and starts isnt it, however if I canget Annie's birth certificate perhaps that will clear things up.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Tuesday 02 December 08 21:21 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Interesting entry in the 1851 census for an Elizabeth Levi living in Backbarrow  ::)  Aged 21, born Newry Ireland (yeh I know)  COTTON DRAWER  :o
HO107/2274 folio 218 page 29.

Good luck,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Tuesday 02 December 08 22:12 GMT (UK)
So could she have had a child with one of the sons of William and Mary Casson ,.they did have a son William living with them in 1851 who was 22years old.  Perhaps they never married and she was economical with the truth about her place of birth on subsequent census forms.  Then William took off leaving her with baby Robert who died in infancy and Annie lived with her grandparents, then Elizabeth struck lucky and married the greengrocer and had a family with him.  Hows that for a working hypothesis, I think I'm a budding Catherine Cookson.

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Sunday 04 January 09 19:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Mo

Sorry to trouble you further but I am still researching Sarah Levy etc, although I have been offline for the last few weeks.  You mentioned on 2/12/08 that John Taylor appeared in 1901 census born  in Summerseat living in Tottington.  I am sure that this Fred's father however just looking at 1901 census I am unable to find him.  Could you help me with this.

Many thanks

Jenny
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: mosiefish on Sunday 04 January 09 19:44 GMT (UK)
Hi,
It`s only a possible.
RG13/3635 folio 69 page 24
24 Market Street, Tottington

John Taylor, Head, M, 41, Insurance Agent, Summerseat
Sarah Ann, Wife, M, 37, Calico Weaver, Summerseat
Ann, Daur, S, 7, Scholar, Tottington
Hubert, Son, S, 5, Scholar, Tottington
David, Son, S, 2, Tottington

Regards,
Mo
Title: Re: Fred Taylor
Post by: jaypear on Monday 23 February 09 11:52 GMT (UK)
Hi

Can anyone help with lookup for above.  He was born June 18th 1885 around Bury.  Greenmount, Summerseat, Tottington Walmersley area.  A birth record and or 1891 or 1901 census record would be great.  I believe he emigrated to the States as a young man.  I believe his father was John Taylor and mother Annie Levi.

Jenny