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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: myshell007 on Saturday 08 November 08 00:59 GMT (UK)
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Francis Ballantyne recorded as 38 in 1855, and Janet Douglas 24yrs parents to George Henry Ballantyne 24 August 1855 Yarrow Selkirk.
No marriage recorded for Jannet and Francis.
There is a Francis Ballantyne b 1814 recorded in Roxburghshire and I have a family history of him, but cannot prove the connection between him and my George.
Also there is a wedding between a Francis and Jessie in 1857 after the birth of a child, but again the birth dates of the parents do not match those of Francis and Jannet from young Georges birth cert.
Are they connected, and is there some sort of family secret involved.
There is a family tradition that an old uncle found out something (not nice) about George but told none and did record it.(good on him) ??? :(
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Just putting a link to your previous post to help people doing any searches www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,336109.0.html
Monica :)
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From your entry on Ancestry, you have:
George Henry Ballantyne was born in Scotland County Selkirk, Yarrow, in 1855. He emigrated with his family to N Zealand as a child, he Married Mary Ellen Norman, and their first child was Mary Ann who was born in 1885.
This is explains why I couldn't find him in the later censuses after his birth ::)
More importantly, the team of RCs on the Emigrants to New Zealand board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,337752.0.html have found for you HEAPS and HEAPS of info both in NZ and in Roxburghshire (all four pages of postings).
Not really sure what the mystery that you refer to could be ???
Monica
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From the way the 1855 birth certificate was written up as posted to you by Gadget, it would seem that Francis and Jessie were not married at the time of George's birth that year. The RCs on the NZ board also found for you a number of other children for Francis and Jessie, so you have:
1855 24 Aug YARROW: George's birth - mother showing as Janet
1857 1 May YARROW: marriage of Francis and Jessie
1857 27 May YARROW: birth of Isabel - mother showing as Jessie
1859 14 Jan YARROW: birth of Thomas Scott B. - mother down as Jess
As you have seen the names Janet/Jessie are interchangeable in Scotland (sometimes even with Jane/Jean).
Leaving aside the fact that Francis showed younger in his 1857 marriage (not uncommon, specially with a younger second wife), you could check the 3 birth certs. to confirm father's occupation and more importantly, the address(es) showing for the family between 1855-59 prior to their departure for NZ in 1860.
Monica
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Hi Monica, I went back and had another look at all three birth extracts, and all three are registered at Yarrow School. Also a town which is hard to read and could be WBergerburn or WBuigerburn, something like that is on their birth records as well.
I am sorry to be difficult, I did want them to belong to me but I have been warned about being sloppy with dates that are a few years out, and I just wanted to be sure.
Plus while searching for Jannet Douglas I came upon a family that had both a Jannet and Jessie as daughters born just one year apart and thought that something shifty was going on with Francis and two sisters.
Maybe I let my imagination run away with me.Michelle.
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Hi Michelle
It is easy to go off course when you are researching and you are right to want to verify your steps along the way :) Am I right in thinking that the addresses for residence on all four certificates, including the marriage matched?
Did the parents' names match for Francis Ballantyne on his 1857 marriage cert. and the death details that have been found in NZ?. It might also be worthwhile trying to find the 1860 death entry, if you can, for the death of young 'Mrs Ballantyne' during the voyage to NZ to confirm what you can for her parents also.
Francis' 3rd marriage to Elizabeth in NZ also gives you another opportunity to confirm his place of birth and parents hopefully.
The Scots liked their name variants and can confuse you if you are not familiar with them. This site is good for giving you an idea on name variants www.whatsinaname.net.
I would not be so concerned about ages for Francis. People's ages do vary, mostly down ::). You are lucky to have so many fact verified in NZ about him. Also in Scotland the name Francis Ballantyne is quite rare and his family has been well researched.
Good luck with everything.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica ,I came upon something interesting while trawling the webb, an answer to a question titled "Second house in Newcastleton" sent in by a Moderator comment - email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses.
I have tried to contact this address to find out more but dont know whether I will get through. :-\
My question is, Is there really that much information out there about this family, and does this site know of where to get this sort of information. It may be a long shot but since you are in the right part of the country I thought I would ask.
Michelle :)
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Moderator comment: this reply merged from elsewhere
Francis Ballantyne reply
There were two Francis Ballantynes to parents John Ballantyne and Mary Miller. The first Francis was born about 1814 and the second was actually John Douglas Francis Ballantyne born about 1819 in Castleton. He died in New Zealalnd and is buried at Crookson Cemetary (died on 24/9/1901)
John Douglas Francis Ballantyne married three times.
Firstly to Margaret Frances Archibald approx 1838/39
Their children were
Jessie burn Ulston 1840
John born Ulston 1842
James Archibald born Hobkirk 1847
Mary Born Hobkirk 1845
Margaret born Ashkirk 1850
Mary Ann born 25/9/1852 (our connection)
Margaret Frances Archibald died in Ashkirk in 1852
He married secondly Jessie Douglas born in New Castleton 1834
Their children were
Tom born in Bengerburn
George born Bengerburn
Isabella born Bengerburn
Jessie Douglas died as the boat was bringing the family up the river to Dunedin in New Zealand 26/9/1860)
He married thirdly Elizabeth Aitcheson born Bannockburn 1836
Their children were
Agnes born Dunedin 1864
Frank born Dunedin 1866
Simon born 1868
William born 1870
Both John Douglas Francis Ballantyne and his third wife are buried at Crookson Cemetery in Otago, New Zealand
Hope that helps
Ngaio
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Hi ngaio
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Great to see the information and many of the findings confirmed by you.
Monica
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Hi Ngaio,
Thank you for that info. :)
Knowing this helps to answer one of the puzzles about the birth dates being all over the place on the wedding certificate and birth certificates of the children.
I have recently been in contact with someone who gave me your email as a reference to the NZ side of the family, if it is alright maybe I can check a few details with you.
Michelle
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Hi Ngaio,
I tried that email at extra to no avail, keeps popping back to me.
I did receive a copy of your tree through another source, but it only had one Francis on it an not, Two, could you go into some more detail please.
Michelle
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Hi Michelle
We are having trouble receiving emails at present and cannot get through to xtra to find out what the problem is.
Without seeing the family tree you have where you mentioned that only one Francis Ballantyne appears, I cannot explain why, unless I was concentrating purely on our direct family. Do remember that the second Francis was actually John Douglas Francis Ballantyne - why he was later called Francis I don't know.
For what it is worth, and you may already have this information, but I will start right at the beginning of what we know of the Ballantynes.
Francis Ballantyne born abt 1749 possibly in Whithaughburn, Roxburgh. married Margaret Robson about 1775 We don't know where either Francis and Margaret came from. One theory is that they may have come from the Kinross area but cannot prove anything here. Francis was a grocer .
Their children were (not necessarily in the right order of birth)
Christian born
Elizabeth (betty) born 1776 married William Ingles
Isabell married John Inglies (spelling as this husbands were brothers)
William married Janet Armstrong
James born 1786
Francis married Frances Brown became merchant in Hawick, buried in Hawick
John born in Newcastleton in 1789 the youngest and our connection
John Ballantyne, the youngest I have as being christened 18/4/1779? married Mary Miller who was born in Brampton but was baptised in Bewcastle in Cumberland and grew up on a property called Steppings - house still there. They married about 1810/11. John Ballantyne died in Castleton on 9/11/1855. Their children were
Isabella born 1812
Francis born 1814
Margaret born 1815
Helen born 1817 died after 1853
John Douglas Francis born aboout 1819 our connection
Agnes born 1825
Archibald born 1826/27
It was this John Douglas Francis Ballantyne who married three times, your connection being from the second wife who died as they were arriving in Dunedin in 1860.
We would love to know what happened to the second family. Our Mary Ann Ballantyne, youngest of first family, was seen walking up Maori Hill in Dunedin when she was about 12, carrying a baby under one arm and a load of washing in other. Her brother in law (married to Jessie who became a Swannerton on marriage) saw her and felt so sorry for her that they took her in to live with them. Mary Ann was so grateful thatshe named her daughter (my grandmother )Jessie Swannerton Brown.
I think it was probably very difficult for the children of the second marriage as John Douglas Francis married for the 3rd time in about 1861/62 and then had another four children.
Hope I am not confusing you too much
My sister has just returned from the South Island where she met up with other Ballantynes and I gather she has brought back quite a bit of information we don't have so when I get this, will forward it on to you.
Meanwhile, keep asking questions - it helps us too.
Ngaio
PS We do have notes of a diary dictated by John Ballantyne, second child from John Douglas Francis Ballantyne's first marriage to Margaret Francies Archibald. He went blind some time after he came to New Zealand. He tells the story briefly of the family's life before they came to New Zealand and his life after he came here. The trouble is it would be too long to put on this website so would love to be able to send it to you. There must be a way!
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Hi Ngaio, Yes I have finally got the Francis and John Douglas Francis thing sorted. I have the history from IGI going back to Margaret Robson and Francis Ballantyne, what I need now is what you might have, some of the more recent family and more details on the individual people.
I have a little information about Georgre Ballantyne and his family, a contact in NZ on the Jewiss line was going to contact the last of my grandmothers generation for me, these things all take time.
I would love to see all the information you have gathered on those Ballantynes, and it sounds like you have some great stories too.
When I received the last note from you I googled Millers in Becastle and you would not believe what I found, an Family History which I am certain you had a hand in about the Miller Family. That will save me a lot of trouble as well, because finding any family so far back without help can be very hard.
The Diary sounds wonderful.
Have you tried personal messaging me yet, can you do this with your email mucking up. I have sent you a couple of personal messages and was wondering if they were getting through.
Michelle
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Hi myshell007,
Congratulations ;D, in making a new contact and piecing it all together.
Your persistance has paid off.
Just been chasing down my rellies in N.Z.
Cheers,
trish