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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Jill123 on Sunday 23 November 08 16:02 GMT (UK)
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Can anybody help me please? I've just joined and would like to find info on my ancestor's army service. His name is Anderson Marsh and he joined the 15th Hussars in about 1840-ish. His number was 1325.He sailed for Bangalore in 1845, and I think he may have taken part in the Crimea War as well. He ended his life as a pauper and committed suicide in 1871.
I would love to find out some more about the poor man.
Thanking you in advance. ???
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Have you searched for his records at Kew??
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Hi Jill and welcome to RootsChat !! :)
How did you find out the information you already know about Anderson ? was that family history ?
I thought you may be interested in this as a little background ... though most of it is either earlier or later than your soldier !
http://www.hussards-photos.com/UK/UK_15.htm
Annie :)
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Hello Annie,
...and thanks for the welcome.Isn't this a wonderful site?
Many thanks for replying. Finding out what little we know about him has taken two years of searching so far. Found info in BMD records, censuses, Ancestry and, amazingly, some old family letters from the 1850's turned up, written from/to his brother and father - that's where the link to The Crimea in 1854 was hinted at. I've already discovered the 'Hussards' site - but no real joy there because, as you say, the dates don't coincide. What I really need is a look at the army lists for around 1854 and the Bangalore 1845 army lists. Is there a site that has these? Or does anyone have a CD of these lists? Also, he was probably overseas again in 1861 as there is no census record of him in the UK.
Jill :)
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...and Hi Scrimnet,
Kew is over 300 mls away, on the other side of the country! But yes, they probably are. But the dates are too wide to pay for an archivist to go through them for me. Thanks for the suggestion though.
I have emailed two army museums for any info but, as yet, haven't received a reply.
My feeling is that he was deeply scarred/ traumatised by his time in The Hussars and that's why he took his own life. Probably a bit fanciful.........!
Jill
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Hi Jill
I have a 1850 Army List and that says that the 15th Hussars were in Bangalore, and that they embarked for India on 11 July 1839. Army Lists only list officers, so what were you expecting from them?
Army records of this period record virtually no FH information. so you will not get his wife and details of any children. The best you can hope for is when he enlisted and was discharged; where he served; and his place and year of birth. If that is what you are after you will have to employ a researcher as there is nothing available on line for men discharged between 1855 and 1913. Although there is a project to provide digitised access to WO97 by 2011. Here is a link for researching military men in Kew - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
You have to hope that he was discharged after 1854 as he is not listed in the index of surviving papers for men discharged before then.
If you get no joy on this site you could ask for a medal roll look up on the British Medal Forum, for a possible Crimea medal and maybe a LSGC (Long Service Good Conduct). The latter could be awarded after 18 years service.
Regarding his sad end, men did not join the army for the money, and any pension would have only been half what he would need to survive. If he had a disability this may have stopped him earning enough to feed him and his family properly. I am sure that most men coming back from India would have had malaria. 20 years earlier, service in either the East or West Indies earned you double service towards a pension.
In 1861 they were in Dublin, but that would imply 20+ years service.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Many, many thanks for your interesting and helpful reply.
Anderson Marsh (born 18 May 1822 and lived in Cambridge) enlisted in The 15th Hussars sometime between 1841 and 1844 when he sailed for Bangalore. Was this the Sikh Wars?
From all the info I've gleaned so far he never married or had a family, so really I was just after his service record ie where he enlisted, where he served etc.
Many thanks for the Kew link and 2011 info. The British Medal Forum also sounds a good bet - will try that.
He was in Addenbrooks Hospital, Cambridge, when he committed suicide in 1871 so, yes, he could have had a disability. Thanks for the interesting pension info.
Re Dublin in 1861, do you think it was feasible that he was in the services for 20 years? As that could be a good bet as to his whereabouts if it was.
Thanks again for taking the time and bother,
Jill
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Here is a link that gives background to most battles - www.britishbattles.com
You have to remember that from sending out a request for more men in India to actually getting them would take about 12 months. So why they were sent is anyones guess. It could be the normal rotation of regiments in India.
Best not to guess about the 20 years service. It is hard enough uncovering facts, without having to guess why things happened. It would be unusual for a man to be still in the saddle in his 40s. Especially if he stayed a Private.
Have you tried looking for an inquest for his death?
ken
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Dear KM1971,
Thanks for your very helpful observations and advice. I'm Jill's (fifth) cousin, Virginia and we help each other solving family mysteries like Anderson's life story. We think that Anderson must still have been enlisted in 1861 because the information we received recently, a snippet from a family bible kept in the USA and forwarded to us by another (fifth) cousin, referred to Anderson being in the 15th Hussars...I found a Wikipedia reference today that claimed that the regiment was given that name only in 1861...so presumably he must have lasted that long before leaving (or Wikipedia's incorrect on this). Will check out your other hints. Many thanks again, Virginia
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Hi Virginia
Welcome to the Forum.
I think you are making a wrong assumption. The entry in the bible may have been made after the event when 15th Hussars was the common name.
Also, according to the 1850 Army List their full title was 15th (The King's) Regiment of Light Dragoons (Hussars), so they may have been referred to as the 15th Hussars then as well.
Ken
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Although Wiki is a useful tool at times...I rarely use it as it is so full of innaccuracies!
At the time of the Rugby World Cup, some bright spark entered that the Bledisloe Cup was a special match for 3rd and 4th place in the competition and that the run off will now be so named!!...Err no...But it did upset the Aussies!
(It is the Aus v NZ version of the Eng v Scot Calcutta Cup...)
My mantra is to always check a fact three times and in three places before believing it so... ;D ;D
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Hello Virginia! And thanks again, Everyone.
And....er, Scrimnet......Virginia's an Aussie!!!
Jill
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Hello Virginia! And thanks again, Everyone.
And....er, Scrimnet......Virginia's an Aussie!!!
Jill
Oops... ::) :-[
;D ;D ;D ;D
Well, our antipodean cousins can't moan after the dismal performance of the England team over the past few weeks...
Sack Martin Johnson I say!
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I to am searching for information on a James Ferguson of around the same period and below is a little history of the 15th Kings Hussrs that may helpw:
Page 282
On May 17, 1838, The King's Hussars again changed quarters, occupying Glasgow and Hamilton, and
here on the 1st of the following January they received orders to prepare for embarkation for India.
On February 26 1839 the Regiment commenced its march from Glasgow and Hamilton to Chatham,
giving up the horses en-route to the different corps to whom they were to be distributed, and the
dismounted men marched on the 18th of the following month to Leith, where they embarked for
Gravesend. At Chatham the Fifteenth were formed into eight service troops and a depot troop,
having the following establishment : 1Colonel. 1 Regimental Sergeant-Major. 2 Lieutenant-Colonels.
9 Troop Sergeant-Majors. 2 Majors. I Pay Sergeant. 9 Captains. I Armourer Sergeant. 18 Lieutenants.
I Saddler Sergeant. 8 Cornets. 1 Schoolmaster Sergeant. 1 Paymaster. I Orderly-room Clerk. 1
Adjutant. 40 Sergeants. 1 Quartermaster. 40 Corporals. 1 Surgeon. 11 Trumpeters. 2 Assistant
Surgeons. 8 Farriers. 1 Veterinary Surgeon. 627 Privates. The Indian establishment of horses per
British cavalry regiment at this period was 701.
Page 283
Arrived in Bombay, the Head-quarter Division re-embarked on November 30, and arrived in Ma d r a
s on January 8, while the other two divisions, leaving Bombay on February 7 and 14, 1840, 1840
reached Cannanore on the 14th and 20th respectively, and at last, on March 30, the whole of the
15th ~Hussars were united at Bangalore. The Regiment had already been joined by 99 volunteers
from the 13th Light Dragoons, and had received 390 horses from that Regiment, while 265 more
remounts, making a total of 655 horses, were drawn from the stud of the East India Company at
Ossoor.
Page 286
On January 28, I 854, The King's Hussars commenced their march from Bangalore-where the whole
of their tour of Indian service had been passed-to Madras, preparatory to embarking for England.
Three privates had volunteered for the 9th Lancers, and 13 sergeants, 12 corporals, 2 trumpeters, 4
farriers, and 48 privates for the 12th Lancers.
9th/12th Royal Lancers Museum
http://www.9th12thlancersmuseum.org/about
“The Indian Mutiny 1857-1858”
Both the 9th and 12th regiments were stationed in India when the mutiny of some Indian soldiers
(sepoys) under British command in Bengal broke out in 1857. The Mutiny is known by many names,
including ‘The First War of Indian Independence’ and ‘The Sepoy Rebellion’. The reasons for the
mutiny were complex. They included the fear of forced conversion to Christianity, resentment of
British rule and both Muslim and Hindu mutineers believed that the grease used to seal musket
cartridges was made from those animals sacred to their religion. Many sepoys, both Sikh and Hindu,
stayed loyal to the British.
The war was focused around the old capital of India, Delhi. It was believed that whoever held Delhi
controlled India. The 9th Lancers was the only British regiment present at all three main
engagements, the Siege of Delhi, the Relief of Lucknow and the Siege of Lucknow. Thirteen men of
the 9th Lancers won the new Victoria Cross for valour, justifying the unique honour of a Twenty-one
Gun Salute on leaving India. The mutineers gave them the nickname ‘The Delhi Spearmen’, and this
name is still used today by the combined regiment.
Regrads
Norman
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Hi
I have been researching my 4th Great Grandfathers military records for the 51st Regiment Kings own and stumbled across his brothers service records. He enlisted with the 15th Hussars in 1831. He was a private for the Hussars until January 1854. In this time, I can only assume the Regiment were sent to India, as he then became a part of the 12th Royal Regiment Lancers in February 1854 to 1856.
Of the 25 or more yrs in service 16 of those years he was in India.
On discharge it was determined he would reside in Bangalore, India.
The information you have posted has helped my research immensely.
Thank you