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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Jeffrey on Sunday 23 November 08 15:53 GMT (UK)
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I have ordered a will of Adam Elliot 1684 of Ewes in Dumfrieshire. I am usually good at transcribing documents but this one has really got me beaten for some reason.
It is 2 pages.
Can any one out there help please.
Judy
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Hi Judy,
If you post the will in parts on this page we will have a go.
I think I am right in saying due to copy right law you can not scan and post the whole document at once, kind regards,Billy.
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Hi I have noticed your posting - and have you had any success in transcribing the Will of Adam Murray of 1684?
I am keen to know of the names of his daughters.
Ingrid
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Hi Ingrid,
The will is of Adam Elliott not Adam Murray.
Judy
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Hello Judy - my mistake I had Adam Murray on the brain - I was interested in Adam Elliot - from meikledale - died 1684.
Sincerely
Iingrid :-[
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Hello Judy - just a follow up - I had tried to look in Scotlandspeople and had no luck with getting any positive responses.
I live in South Australia - and a number of us are trying to find the relationship with a particular Murray Family and the Elliot family in the mid 1600's.
From the dates and locations there does seem to be a possibility of a connection.
The Murrays were at "Castleton" and were at Deadwater (near Thorlieshope). So there does not seem to be anything out of place with trying to get a more definitive with regards to whether Adam Elliot family became involved with the Murray's. The said Murrays seem to be a new familty in the area - beginning a new headstone.
Ingrid
NB still embarassed at first of all mentioning Adam Murray.
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If you get back to the seventeenth century fewer records are available, unless you are lucky. Possibilities are kirk session records for the parish and state records such as the register of the Great Seal. It is worthwhile checking the on-line catalogue of the National Archives of Scotland. You can search by name, date and place. Also look at the catalogue of the National Register of Archives for Scotland, which you can access via the NAS site.
If they owned any land, even a small amount, the Register of Sasines is very useful and often gives detailed relationships.
Graham
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Hi Ingrid,
Have you seen this web site of the Elliot Clan. It has loads of information. Difficult to follow at first but you get to be able to work it out.
It maybe has your Murrays on there with the Elliots.
http://home-2.tiscali.nl/~cb002201/ellot_clan.htm
Will look again at the will.
The National Archives of Scotland has loads on the Elliots. You can look at it on http://www.nas.gov.uk/
Judy
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Hi many thanks for the reply - I will pursue the National Archives - thanks for that.
I have seen the website re the Elliot clan and borrowed the book on interlibrary loan - from Queensland. I intend to a family tree re: the Elliots of Meikledale to Thorlieshope by computer program - that will help me understand better who was where and their names. The program will start from:
THE ELLIOTS OF MEIKLEDALE, THORLIESHOPE, BINKS and ARKLETON (FALNASH)
I.1.1.1.3.1.1.4.1 : Adam Elliot of Meikledale, died the 16 August 1682, married (1°) daughter Glendenning, (2°) Janet Scott.
(Notes : Was 58 on March 1657 as indweller in Gorrenberry, on 12/11/1669 received Crown Charter of the lands of Meikledale, said to have married 1rst. daughter ofGlendenning of Glendenning, 2nd daughter of John Scott of Rennaldburn, buried in churchyard of Overkirk at Unthank.)
He had 5 children :
Source: ElliotnClan website.
Thanks so much for your patience.
Ingrid
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if you go in Scotlandpeople website under Wills &Testments you will find
the Testment Dative and Inventry of Adam Elliot in Meikledale 18/07/1684
it went through Dumfries Commissary Court
you can downloads it for a fee of £5.00 - still 2 pages
this could suggest he never made a proper will and died intestate and is a inventory of his money and property, etc at death registered through the Court probate for the family and debtors. Probate can talk up to a year nowaday, so back then who knows.
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Yes this is what I have already and you are right it is a Testament rather than a will.
The people named in this are his 'relict' Janet Scott and 'Williame Elliot only law[fu]ll sone and ex[ecut]er'.
There are no other family members mentioned.
Judy
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Hi Ingrid,
This family is really difficult to sort as they were always intermarrying.
Can you tell me a little more about which Murray's were connected and how. Then I can look out for them in any information I have.
Judy
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Hello Judy - many many thanks for your help - I have downloaded the testament - and will proceed to interpret this weekend.I have had reasonable succes in interpreting James Murrays testament from 1682 - so I feel that I should be ok on this one...
The Murray link that I am loking for is:
100 Here lies James Murray who died January, 1681. Likewise Helene Ellot his spouse who died February, 1691. Also Margrat Baitie spouse to Adam Murray in mains she died 27th August, 1731 aged 63 years. Also the said Adam Murray who d. 25 Dec, 1738 aged 80 years. Also Jean Little spouse to James Murray who died 29th September, 1743 aged 43. And John Murray son to James Murray who died 12 September, 1749 aged 14. And Adam Murray their son who died at Newcastleton 8th March, 1816 aged 88. Also Margaret Hutton his spouse who died at Dloupknow 13th February, 1775 aged 54. Also Janet Little spouse to John Murray who died at Sorby 23rd February, 1806 aged 31. Adam Murray, their son who died 26th march, 1806 aged 6. Michel their son who died 21st July 1806 aged 2.
Source: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bp2000/cemetery/berwickshire.htm I have an image of the headstone - from when I visited the graveyard 2 1/2 years ago. The headstone is in the Castleton Church yard.
This is significant to this family history as the headstone is very old, and is the oldest existing Murray headstone in the cemetery. The question is to be raised – where did this Murray come from (I believe that there is a convention of the oldest son being buried in the family plot – along with early departed family members and unmarried sisters.
So – the question is – where did this James Murray come from – and who was Helene Ellot??. In subsequent generations the name Adam features – so would this be from the father of Helen Eliot?
In 1802 one line of the Murray family is at Sorby (which I have determined to be the Sorbie next to Meikledale). It is from this relationship that the Borthwick name feature Mr Borthwick being the lease of Sorbie...
With the information from the Elliot Clan book and drawing the family tree I might be able to determine where there were common places of residences in the 18the century.
One of the links which I am trying to strengthen is the realtionship with Thorliehope - if there is one... the Murrays lived at Deadwater for a while (I presume - there children were born there eg Adam 1728).
Other supporting information is in Rulewater and it’s people P58 and 67.
Alexander Borthwick Murrays "arms" have the logo Noctes diesquo praestro" which is a common theme of the Lochmaben Annandale Murray line.
From "An Ordinary of Arms: Contained in the Public Register of All Arms ..." By James Balfour Paul - the description is: Parted per chevron aig and az three mullets in chief and a cresent in base, counter changed P85 (2009).
It is this Alexander Borthwick Murray who had come to South Australia and developed - along with his brother, a famous sheep stud near where I live.
In some books there is stated that the Murray Famity and the Malcolm’s from Burnfoot were distantly related. It is not immediately obvious where this link is – could it be through the Elliot’s of Midlem Mill, or the Little’s or some other tenuous relationship?? These are lines of investigation that I will go down when the mental space is suffiecient.
As an interest – there is an Armstrong relationship – and some relationship with Falstone – this may be too difficult to embed just now.
Regards.
Ingrid
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Hi Ingrid,
Thanks for all the info.
I was thinking if it is worth posting this under its own title rather than burried under an obscure title. You may get more people looking at it who are researching Murray's.
Just out of interest are there any Elliots mentioned in James Murrays Testament?
Have also sent you a personal message.
Stay in touch
Judy.
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The spouse and children that are named are :
Helen Elliot his ... at h at my best knowledge In Mains and behalf of Adam Archibald William James Agnes And Helen Murray ther children only our dative de
So some of these children would eb named after their Elliot forebears and Murray forebears...
Thanks so much for your guidance - yes I will in touch - but I now have three horror days at work so wont be on line for a while - thanks for email address.
Ingrid