RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: Lizzie Jean on Sunday 23 November 08 01:29 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to find deaths of Robert Stanley Allen Irwin (b. Gibraltar abt. 1872 - served briefly in WW1), his wife, Frances Mary Denny b. abt. 1880 (nee Schlechtweg - or Sleswick), and their daughter Irene Frances Adelaide, b. abt. 1905 who never married. Robert was discharged from the A.I.F. in 1918. He was deemed medically unfit. (Enlisted in 1916 aged 44, and was aged 62 when discharged!) He was already a widower in 1916, so Frances must have died between 1908 (birth of second daughter, Phyllis) and 1916 when Robert enlisted. Irene was still alive in the 1936 electoral roll. Any help would be much appreciated.
Lizzie Jean. :)
-
Hi Lizzie
What state in OZ do you have them in, on the electoral roll
Daizi
-
Electoral rolls in Vic...
Have you Robert Allan Stanley's and his wife's parents' names please...they would be on their marriage cert if you have it.
Have had a pretty good look on the Vic indexes and can't find anything....well so far :)
Cheers
Cando
-
Robert enlisted at Cootamundra in NSW...find that a bit odd if he was living in Melbourne.
There is this death on NSW
2516/1910
IRWIN FRANCIS
Father James Mother Catherine
District Newtown
Not correct parent.
Probably way off track...I often get the wobbles ;D ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
This looks like him
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/NameSearch/Interface/ItemListingForm.aspx
WWI records
Robert Irwin, born Gibraltar, Europe; place of enlistment Cootamundra NSW. NOK Irene (daughter)
Digital copy available to view.
Cheers, Judith
-
Yes that is the WW1 record ...have just finished reading the 95 pages ::)....There is a letter post discharge from the Taxation Department in Adelaide, South Australia . As his diagnosis at discharge was senility I am wondering if this could be his death in South Australia
IRWIN Robert
28 Mar 1921
65 years Status Married??
No relative noted.
Residence Rose Park Death Place Keswick
Ref Ade H [died in hospital or place of care] 444/582
Cheers
Cando
-
To help with the searching
Births
SCHLICHTWEG Frances Mary Denny
Father John Augustus Mother Mary Ann DENNY
At Collingwood 1880 Reg#7788
Marriage
IRWIN Robt Stanley Allen b. Gilbraton
SCHLICHTURG Frances Mary b. Collingwood
1903 Reg#6247R
Cheers
Cando
-
Looking further at the National Archives record, daughter Irene is given as living at 182 Hambleton St, Middle Park, Vic in 1916; he is discharged owing to "eyesight" and then re-enlists in Nov 1916. Irene's address then given as 219 (later noted as 49) Richardson St, Middle Park, later amended to Charles St, Northcote. He also gives the Richardson St address as his postal address in 1916. Despatched to Engand 1917, returned to Aus and discharged May, 1918, owing to 'senility' and being 'overage" (he had been promoted to acting Sgt only a couple of months before!)- he was 62.
Most listings of his occupation is as a "clerk/timekeeper" but one says "railway clerk" which may well be why he was in Coota which was a big junction station on the Syd/Melbourne railway. A postal address is on one page for him - Morrisons Hill NSW.
One page gives a place of origin of his eyesight problem as "West Australia".
A later letter (from the tax office!) 1920 gives his address as Hume St, Adelaide.
Letter dated Aug 1924 to Irene at the first Middle Park address in regard to a medal to be issued under "Deceased Soldiers' Estates Act". (Dopey them - her address had been changed and they actually had the new address .)
Letter dated Sep 1924 to a Mrs M Sandilands, 123 Charles St Northcote as 'custodian of Irene Irwin'. A reply from Mrs Sandilands give the address for Irene Frances Adelaide Irwin at 127 Charles St, Northcote South and states that there were no sons and that Irene is the eldest daughter.
The last entry on the NAA records shows that the Star, the British War Medal and the Victory medal had been sent to Irene!
SNAP, Cando lol
-
It appears that Mary Ann SANDILANDS is Frances Mary's mother and Irene's grandmother.
Birth
DENNY Mary Anne
Father James George Mother Elizth Hart Charity TWIGHT
At Buninyong 1857
1857 Reg# 6108
Marriage
DENNY Mary Ann b. Buninyong
SCHLICHTWEG John Augustus Theodore b. Germany
1877 Reg# 3989
Can't locate the death of John Augustus Theodore SCHLICHTWEG and I'm not surprised taking into account the spelling variations.
Marriage
SANDILANDS Frederick Erskine b. Prahran
SLESWICK Mary Ann
1909 1541
Death
SANDILANDS Mary Ann
Father Denny James George Mother Eliz Harrt UNKNOWN
At St Kilda 79 years 1937 Reg#2716
Both Mary Ann and her husband Frederick Erskine are buried at St Kilda Cemetery ...was hoping that her dau was buried there also. :(
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php
While scrolling through the IRWIN names at Springvale and St Kilda I found some of my distant IRWIN/PEERS relatives who died in 1991 and 2007..so there are fringe benefits in helping others...or trying to ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
What do you think about this death in NSW
3155 1916
IRWIN Frances M
Father Augustus Mother Mary A
District Goulburn
Her birth
Births
SCHLICHTWEG Frances Mary Denny
Father John Augustus Mother Mary Ann DENNY
At Collingwood 1880 Reg#7788
Cheers
Cando
-
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10421/20041220-0000/www.firstfamilies2001.net.au/search.html
The now defunct first families site has SCHLICHTWEG
the best way is to click on the S then page three of the S and you will be then able to click on the name
might be helpfull for further family research
oh I love the translation of the family name ;)
kind thoughts Jenn
-
Thanks for that Jenn...no wonder I couldn't find Frances' father death ...he returned to Germany c1900.
Will check the Tetlow Index for Hotel Licencees.
Cheers
Cando
-
Hello there Cando,
Yes when I saw that I thought I would add the link in, The First Families site is good but sometimes the research leave a little to be desired, so don't like to link it unless it can offer further assistance.
kind thoughts Jenn
-
I'm not sure where to start with thanking all you kind people who have gone to so much trouble for me!! I will try to work my way through your postings in order. Firstly, Jenn (tropicalj) - You will probably find me on First Families from all those years ago. Cando - I am not sure whether you found Frances' father (Johann) returning to Germany, or his father Wilhelm. I know he went back, but have never found what became of Johann. Frances mother had divorced him in 1897, and on Frances' sister's marriage cert. Ethel (1902), he is shown as deceased. The Hotel Index will show Mary Ann and Frances both as licensees of various hotels at various times. Thank you for finding the death of Frances M. It may well be "mine" as Robert enlisted in Cootamundra. I'm so glad you found some of your "lot" while looking for mine! Judb - I only discovered that Rob. Irwin had enlisted in the AIF on Saturday when I was nearly tearing my hair out about the Irwin family. 95 pages is a bit of a challenge, but several of them are repeated. Cando - I have the marriage certificate. Robert's parents were John Irwin and Elizabeth Allen, and Frances's were John Augustus (what looks like) Schlichting, and Mary Ann Denny. Just as a passing mention - Frances and Rob.'s second daughter was Phyllis Vivienne. She married Alexander Bisset Fraser and, although I found his death I have yet to find that of Phyllis! Many thanks everyone! Lizzie. ;D
-
Thank you for your detailed response.
There was a problem with the Tetlow/Cole Index...search function wasn't 'working' so didn't get to check the licensee listings.
I found the marriage of Phyllis Vivienne and the death of her husband but couldn't find either of the sisters' deaths.
Do you think the death I found in South Australia could be your Robert IRWIN?
Cheers
Cando
-
Hi Cando,
Thanks for continuing on with "my lot". I know that Phyllis and Alexander Fraser were married in 1936, although only Alex. is shown in the 1936 Victorian Electoral Roll. (Must have been before the wedding). Alex was cremated in 1960 and (presumably) his ashes were placed in a garden bed (I have the details re this). However, no sign of Phyllis. I realised I had not thanked you for the possible Robert Irwin death. It could well be him. There is a family story about someone heading west, taking with him things (money?) Mary Ann claimed were hers. (She was apparently bit of a battle-axe!) Mary A. was my great-grandmother, and my father and his brothers are now all dead, so it's a case of I wish I had known to ask while they were all still here.
-
Had a search of some of the larger cemeteries in Melbourne and found this...but you say his ashes were placed in a garden bed - Garden 1 Bed 73 Position 45
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
Given Names ALEXANDER BISSETT
Surname FRASER
Religion PRESBYTERIAN
Funeral Director JOHN ALLISON MONKHOUSE-FRANKSTON
Date of Service 05/03/1960
Date of Death 03/03/1960
Age 51
Burial Type CREMATION
Location Details Gardenia - Garden Bed Single Garden 1 Bed 73 Position 45
Public Grave Y/N N
Tenure Date 24/10/2032
Do you have this death certificate? It would show children and then you may have some more leads.
I think I may have asked you before...have you Irene's death.
Cheers
Cando
-
Could only search the Tetlow Cole Index using the IE option on Firefox...caused Firefox to close down :o :o Tried it several times.
I can only find Mary Ann SLESWICK as Licensee of Kirks Hotel in Bourke Street, Melbourne in 1903 and Frances SLESWICK in 1901.
Probably mistranscriptions of the surname is preventing me from finding more.
I had looked at the list of licensees of the Sarah Sands a couple of years ago as I was led to believe that one of my ancestors was considering purchasing the freehold in 1910. I noticed that the licensee changed in 1910 so perhaps their was some truth in the story. However Mary Ann's name does not appear on the list that I have.
Are you considering purchasing a transcription of the Robert IRWIN's death in South Australia? SAGHS now do transcriptions for $15...request form on their website.
http://www.saghs.org.au/research.htm#transcription
The informant must have known something about Robert to have given the fact that he was married.
Cheers
Cando
-
Hello Again Cando!
Thank you so much for your time and effort on my behalf. I had actually found the info on Alexander Fraser on the Necropolis website. However, no sign of Phyllis! This afternoon I blundered around NSW and SA websites trying to track down where you had found the info concerning Robert and Frances. When I did manage to come up with something, I concluded that you were spot on with their deaths. I wasn't sure how I could go about getting Robert's death certificate so thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I do not have Alexander Fraser's death certificate. I bought Frances' birth and marriage certs. over the weekend, so thought I had better think carefully before trying for another one. I seem to recall my father saying Phyllis did not have any children, but I may be mistaken. Once again, many thanks.
Lizzie ;D
-
Hello! Me Again!
I realised I forgot to answer your question regarding Irene Irwin. I have not yet managed to find her death. From the Victorian Electoral Rolls I know that she lived at 127 Charles Street, Northcote in 1931. Her grandmother, Mary Ann, was at 124 Charles St. at this time. In 1936 Irene was living at 48 Fawkner St., St Kilda West, which was the same address as Mary Ann. I have no idea what became of her after this. (Mary Ann died in 1937).
Lizzie ???
-
I wonder if Phyllis and Irene lived together in the latter years?
I frequently had to stop myself purchasing certs in the early day of family research and then only buy those that were really needed to either validate finds or allow me to find chn etc.
Perhaps they both lived to a ripe old age ie died after 1985 limit of indexes. I have had a search for them in some of the larger cemeteries in Melbourne.
Have a look on google maps and then streetview for 48 Fawkner Street, St Kilda. Mostly single fronted cottages. Unfortunately it appears that the original house at no 48 may have demolished and a more modern house built. Single fronted cottages in Charles Street as well.
Cheers
Cando
-
I hadn't actually considered that Irene and Phyllis might have lived together. I have found an Irene Irwin working as a nurse in the Mont Park Mental Hospital in 1924. I wasn't aware of Irene being a nurse, but, I suppose that is not impossible. She may well have nursed her grandmother during her final days. I think I mentioned before that both Irene and Phyllis are seemingly left well provided for in Mary Ann's Will. My grandmother, Mary Ann's first child, is not mentioned at all in the Will, and I believe it left one of my uncles in particular, very bitter.- They all sound like a good lot!! I suppose my best bet on finding out more information is trying to track down when and where Irene and Phyllis died. Thanks again for your help.
Lizzie. ;D