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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Jane Masri on Saturday 22 November 08 14:45 GMT (UK)

Title: Has anything changed?
Post by: Jane Masri on Saturday 22 November 08 14:45 GMT (UK)
I'm transcribing criminal registers for the Ancestry World Archives Project.  I've just been looking at one of the pages & three men of the ages, 44, 56 & 60 were found guilty of, 'carnally knowing a girl between the age of 10 & 12'.  This is in Kent in 1848.  Two of them got two years imprisonment & the other 18 months.  On the same page a counterfeiter of coin got 12 months imprisonment & a sheep stealer got 10 years transportation  :o
 >:(  makes me mad!!

jane
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: dollylee on Saturday 22 November 08 15:05 GMT (UK)
It's a crime without any excuses and with today's scientific "proof" in the cases where DNA can be collected it is beyond me why these criminals aren't given a life sentence.  If there can be no doubt of their guilt they should never see the light of day again.

dollylee
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Jane Masri on Saturday 22 November 08 15:19 GMT (UK)
Quite agree, Dollylee but it does make you wonder how seriously they took these crimes back in the day...not very as far as I can see  :(

jane
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 22 November 08 15:46 GMT (UK)
Sexual crimes against children were not unusual in Victorian times, the surprising thing is the blasé attitude of the magistrates and the relatively lenient sentences handed down. For example in North Shields Police Court on 1st March 1900 a Peter Marshall was accused of indecent assault on a four year old girl, he was sentenced to two months in jail.

Stan
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Jane Masri on Saturday 22 November 08 15:52 GMT (UK)
 ::)

jane
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: MKG on Saturday 22 November 08 16:45 GMT (UK)
It isn't THAT long ago that a girl of 12 was old enough to marry (as long as the husband was at least 14).
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Dancing Master on Saturday 22 November 08 19:00 GMT (UK)
There were no more in Victorian times as there are now, but because of the Press and Television coverage we simply know more about it.

When we were children we were always told there were certain persons you simply kept away from, nothing was elaborated upon but you did as your parents told you.


Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: stanmapstone on Saturday 22 November 08 22:49 GMT (UK)
It isn't THAT long ago that a girl of 12 was old enough to marry (as long as the husband was at least 14).

From 1823 the age at which a couple could undergo a valid marriage, even without parental consent, was 14 for boys and 12 for girls. The 1929 Age of Marriage Act made all marriages void from 10 May 1929, if either partner was under the age of 16. The legal age for marriage remained at 14 for boys and 12 for girls in the Republic of Ireland, until 1st January 1975, when it was raised to 16.

Stan
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: dollylee on Sunday 23 November 08 00:44 GMT (UK)
With the title of this thread being "Has anything changed?" I was not thinking of the laws of the time and how that might influence the ridiculous penalties given for the crimes nor the effect that age of consent might have had on the courts.

Unfortunately it would seem that very little has changed as far as this crime goes.  The penalties are still ridiculous, the crime is still rampant and we still seem to be casting a blind eye.

What has changed in some cases is the ability to dismiss any reasonable doubt of guilt and in those cases I say ....... Hang em and hang em high !!!  :'( :'(

dollylee
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: jesstidd on Sunday 23 November 08 09:14 GMT (UK)
I second what dolylee said, hang them or stand them againts the wall a let the parents shoot them. jess
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: nessy on Sunday 23 November 08 11:07 GMT (UK)
I agree Jess, but I'd just hang them from a lampost in public.  It's a terrible thing to say but the courts and judges just let them back out and they do it again :'(
Nessy
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Dancing Master on Sunday 23 November 08 11:26 GMT (UK)
There is a lot more to this kind of offence,  the Judges can only sentence within the Law as it stands now.   There are people who say they should be castrated either surgically or by chemicals, but do not understand that this does not solve the problem because the offenders find other means with which to get the gratifcation just the same.

Also, and this is no excuse for the offenders in any way, but have you seen the way young girls from 6 and 7 years of age are dressed (in public), it makes me feel sick, they look like miniature adults in totally inappropriate clothing.   Everyone  says that these sick individuals are around and looking for targets and still these little children are made so that they attract the males in our society.

In Victorian  times and in the time  up until the 1980's onwards children were dressed as babies and as children, not ever as miniature adults.

Also don't forget  the women paedophiles as well and they are around, they make me even sicker at the thoughts of them.

Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: jesstidd on Sunday 23 November 08 11:38 GMT (UK)
Whilst I do agree that childrens' fashions today make them look young adults. Dressing them as their age will not deter the monsters as you have said, "Victorian days they dressed them as children should be"this did not stop these monsters then. Is it in the parents hands, noticing if there sons are a bit that way inclind. Then maybe something could be done at an earlier stage.  Are we looking more to the upper crust, the way they are brought up to look on sex, whatever, these people are vermin, don't just list them get rid of them. jess
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: jesstidd on Sunday 23 November 08 11:40 GMT (UK)
Perhaps it is about time it was put to the vote. jess
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Dancing Master on Sunday 23 November 08 11:54 GMT (UK)
It is a disease, a sickness and nothing you do unless permently locked up away from children will stop it.

 I have worked  in the past with these types of offenders including the women ones,  someone has to do it, and they are quite specific in what turns them on, and in my view drawing their attention to young children is also wrong.

Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Jane Masri on Sunday 23 November 08 16:32 GMT (UK)
Going back to the crime in question on my original post, I suppose we should take heart that these three men (yes, it looks like 3 men were involved with the one girl) were brought to justice.  We don't know how that happened, whether they were caught in the act or the girl spilled the beans (good for her) but however slight their punishment these 19th century perverts paid the price,

jane
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: jellybeans on Tuesday 16 December 08 05:54 GMT (UK)
What has changed in some cases is the ability to dismiss any reasonable doubt of guilt and in those cases I say ....... Hang em and hang em high !!!  :'( :'(

dollylee


I would say, put them in a room (or somewhere)with the mothers of these children, and see how they fare!!!   
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: jesstidd on Tuesday 16 December 08 08:58 GMT (UK)
Why should the tax payer keep these monsters. The children in question live with the memories for life that cannot be erased. Just do away with them in the worst possible way.
Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Jane Masri on Tuesday 16 December 08 09:17 GMT (UK)
This is a link to a local Jordanian blog that gives a platform to everyday matters that concern us here in Jordan.

http://jordanjournals.blogspot.com/  Go to 'Please change the law', December 12 2008.  Also read the comments at the end of the posting.

As you can see we still have to deal with Tribal Law here as well as archaic civil law.  These crimes are not unusual here as well as all too frequent, 'honour killings' against female family members which are also dealt with in a lenient fashion  >:(

jane

Title: Re: Has anything changed?
Post by: Grandma Cas on Tuesday 16 December 08 09:36 GMT (UK)
but have you seen the way young girls from 6 and 7 years of age are dressed (in public), it makes me feel sick, they look like miniature adults in totally inappropriate clothing.   Everyone  says that these sick individuals are around and looking for targets and still these little children are made so that they attract the males in our society.
In my opinion as someone who has experience in this area, those children could probably be safer than most. My understanding of a pedophile is they mostly target children that look vulnerable in some way. So, trust me clothing doesn't come into it.

Carol :(