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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: BuddysMummy on Monday 17 November 08 20:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Monday 17 November 08 20:44 GMT (UK)
These are my father's medals.

He served in the 14th army in Burma during WW2.

I can identify the two Burma Star medals, but not sure why he had two and why they are on different ribbons. Also, one seems slightly paler than the other. is this just an "accident" or are they actually made of different metal. (Sorry I have not cleaned them. Not really sure if I should)

Also, I see that on the ribbon bar he has ribbons from both of the Burma Star medals, and from the other medal, but there is another ribbon on there. What would that have been?

I know about the RAMC badge. Where would that have been worn though?


And a ribbon on its own with no medal. Would that have had a medal with it at one time?

The fabric square thing; what is that? And is there any reason why it would have four hooks (as in hook and eye fasteners) on the back?

Sorry I have so many questions all in one post, and sorry that I am so woefully ignorant to start with.
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Monday 17 November 08 20:53 GMT (UK)
Here's the back of the silver one

Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Monday 17 November 08 21:06 GMT (UK)
Sorry to have wasted your time a bit here.

I took my courage in both hands and have done a bit of research. It was easier than expected!

So...I now know about the Burma Stars, more or less.

I also know about the 1939-1945 British War Medal.

But still puzzled by the badges or whatever the fabric thing is, and about the extra ribbon and the missing one (on the ribbon bar) so would appreciate help about those please.
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 21:07 GMT (UK)
You are actually missing onre, according to the ribbon bar...The Defence Medal...

You have the RAMC cap badge with associated Regt flash, the Burma Star, the War Medal, and the 1939-45 Star. The divisional badge I'll look up, and the lone ribbon is the Long Service Medal for the Special Constabulary
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 21:14 GMT (UK)
There is only ONE Burma Satr there as that is all he would be entitled to!!

Here are the same ones from my collection (mostly family)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 21:20 GMT (UK)
And the reverse...
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Monday 17 November 08 21:28 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much.

It shows how little I knew. I assumed that the star shape made them both Burma stars! I can see now.

I am not sure about the Special Constabulary one. Is there any way of dating that? As far as I know my father never was in the police. But I think I recall that his father (the possible deserter from Scots Guards ::) ) was. But I am prepared for surprises (always!)

Thanks again
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 21:52 GMT (UK)
Unless you can find the actual medal...Difficult...

On the rim of the Police Medal, there would be a name, and the obverse picture of the monarch does change!

It was instituted in 1919 for 15 yrs service. It is still issued today...
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: old rowley on Monday 17 November 08 21:53 GMT (UK)
The Special Constabulary Long Service Medal was first instituted in the August of 1919 and I believe that it is still being awarded (although I could be wrong on that). Unfortunately one can not date the actual medal given just by the ribbon only unless of course it had bars attached to it.

OR
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 21:54 GMT (UK)
Just what I said OR!!! ;D

The RAMC badge is a cap badge and would have been worn as seen with flash on beret type things... (Cap GS)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: kyt on Monday 17 November 08 22:08 GMT (UK)
The badge of the arrow with the blue wavy line is for the 202nd (Assam) Lines of Command Area - i.e units for the Assam military area.

The black arrow represents a Naga Spear pointing upwards through a blue wavy band representing the River Bramaputra.
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 22:13 GMT (UK)
Oops...

Should have labeled the medals...

They should be as per my pic (correct order) and are 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, (missing) Defence Medal, and the War Medal.

The fabric badge is a formation sign and has hooks and eyes on so that the badges can be removed when the uniform is washed.

Th best stuff is either Peek or even a pencil rubber to clean the medals..
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Monday 17 November 08 22:14 GMT (UK)
The badge of the arrow with the blue wavy line is for the 202nd (Assam) Lines of Command Area - i.e units for the Assam military area.

The black arrow represents a Naga Spear pointing upwards through a blue wavy band representing the River Bramaputra.


Nice one...Beat me to it!
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Tuesday 18 November 08 09:52 GMT (UK)
Wow, that really is wonderful information. Thank you so very much for your time and patience!

No idea where that medal went. Shame.

Thanks again
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 18 November 08 11:20 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,
First - thankyou BuddysMummy for letting us see the medals :)
Secondly, can someone please tell me what Peek is?
Thank you.
Paulene :)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: kyt on Tuesday 18 November 08 12:10 GMT (UK)
Peek is a brand name for a non-abrahsive cleaner and polish. If you google Peek Cream Polish you should be able to find some retailers. It may even be available on evilbay

K
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 18 November 08 12:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Kyt :)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: kyt on Tuesday 18 November 08 12:13 GMT (UK)
No worries. Having said that about the polish, I personally don't recommend cleaning medals unless they are very spotted. There is something about the ageing that is quite pleasing otherwise.

But if you do decide to clean them then remember to take the ribbons off first, as they will get stained.

K
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 18 November 08 12:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Kyt,
Thank you for the advice.
I don't have my father's medals; they disappeared when I was young. At some stage (as I doubt I will be lucky enough to find them) I would either like to get copies, or buy some that are lying neglected in some shop. I'm tempted to do the latter, as I feel at least that brings something to the memory of the person whose medals are not with a family and perhaps not wanted. (I know most will not be named, but I gather the Territorial Efficiency one will be).
Dad was awarded five, so there are a few to buy.
Thank you, Kyt. :)
Paulene :)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 18 November 08 14:34 GMT (UK)
Thats why I also suggested a pencil rubber...it does work!

No worries. Having said that about the polish, I personally don't recommend cleaning medals unless they are very spotted. There is something about the ageing that is quite pleasing otherwise.

But if you do decide to clean them then remember to take the ribbons off first, as they will get stained.

K


Willow...

Your fathers medals are probably out there somewhere...I expect someone has them...A decent sized group like that is unlikely to have been broken up.

Try http://www.medaltracker.com/
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 18 November 08 14:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Scrimnet :)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 18 November 08 15:22 GMT (UK)
No probs...and of course if you do go down the line of buying replacements beware...here are an awful lot of poor copies out there...I am presuming they are WW2 and beyond?
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: willow154 on Tuesday 18 November 08 15:26 GMT (UK)
Yes, WW2 - I did see a set in Truro when I was visiting my sister in the summer, but decide to have a think about it. I can't remember who the Territirial Efficency one was awarded to, unfotrtunately. :-\
Paulene :)
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 18 November 08 15:31 GMT (UK)
You could always apply for his records as next of kin?
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: pwenlock on Thursday 04 December 08 15:00 GMT (UK)
Hi BuddysMummy

This is totally off track, but your atvar of your grandfather caught my eye.  Can you confirm that he is wearing a Military Medal, British War Medal & Victory Medal from WW1?

Do you know the history behind the MM?

Regards
Paul
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Thursday 04 December 08 15:40 GMT (UK)
Hi BuddysMummy

This is totally off track, but your atvar of your grandfather caught my eye.  Can you confirm that he is wearing a Military Medal, British War Medal & Victory Medal from WW1?

Do you know the history behind the MM?

Regards
Paul

I have just found this (and I am very proud of my lovely, heroic Grandfather!)

http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=120051

in which this is recorded:

'For conspicuous devotion to duty and bravery. At POZIERES on the 5th August, 1916, on the return of Private SMITH W.H. for more dressings, Private GRIFFITHS volunteered to accompany him back to No Man's Land, fully knowing the danger, and assisted him to dress and attend to wounded under very heavy shell fire until he himself was seriously wounded.'
Source: 'Commonwealth Gazette' No. 184
Date: 14 December 1916


I have seen other records on the National Archives site ( http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=4703343&I=1&SE=1 ) which gave info on the fact he was injured, shipped to UK and eventually returned to Australia. The first letter to his mother stated that he was dangerously ill due to gunshot wounds to his chest, right hand and right knee. All of which contained shrapnel right up to his death in 1991.

He was awarded the 1914/15 star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. Sorry, I really know very little about medals and suchlike. It has been fascinating to read these records.l

I am not sure if I am allowed to provide these links, but in view of the fact that he is dead now and that this is how he can be best remembered then I think I should!
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: pwenlock on Thursday 04 December 08 17:32 GMT (UK)
That must have been a fantastic find. I'm also so jealous at the access you have to the Australian Government Records. It puts the UK service to shame

I feel though I need to point out one possible error in your post.  I think you may be mistaken on the medals he received as the picture only shows him wearing the MM, BWM & Victory but not the 1914/15 Star which would have been worn between the MM & BWM.

My reading of the final page of 36 documents from the government records states "NO" in the middle of the 1914/15 Medal stamp. Also I would find it hard to comprehend that if he were attested on the 29th July 1915 that he would have completed basic training and travelled to a theatre of war in umder 5 months (although I'm more than happy to be corrected on that fact).

Please dont think I'm knocking his achievements, he was obviously a very brave man and certainly deserved formal recognition of his acts of bravery.

Regards
Paul

Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: BuddysMummy on Thursday 04 December 08 18:18 GMT (UK)
Yes, you are right about the "no". I hadn't spotted that.

So, do you think he enlisted and was sent out to France without the basic training then?

If so, doesn't that make the atrocity of war even worse somehow.

I am just re-reading his record with this new info in mind and not making any sense of page 9. I think the first date of 1915 may be a mistake and be 1916, but even so this is a very different date to the attestation date. Can you shed any light on that?

I am not in the least offended by you pointing that out, by the way. Just very grateful to you for making sense of it all.

I was told that he was not expected to live a long life after his injuries. he didn't do badly, he died "suddenly" just a few weeks after his 99th birthday!

p.s. are you in Berkshire then? Me too, although we are making plans to move to Australia one day.
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: pwenlock on Friday 05 December 08 08:34 GMT (UK)
Good morning BuddysMummy

I'm having another good read of the Australian documents & I think you are correct in the assumption that the first date on page 9 is a transcription error or a badly formed 6 as he couldnt have been posted to a unit 4 months prior to attestation.  The date at the end of that row appears to be 5/3/16

The rest of the dates on that page are all for April & August 1916 which seems to make a sensible chronology.

Yes I am West Berkshire based.

Regards
Paul
Title: Re: Could you help with these medals please?
Post by: grandarog on Saturday 06 December 08 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Buds Mum,
                   Your dad may never have received the medal to go with the Police Special Constable Ribbon . My dad never got his. Apparently there were so many Specials during ww2 the government couldnt afford to strike enough so some just got the Ribbon. Maybe Scrim or one of the Experts on here can confirm if this is fact.
                                               Regards Rog. :-\