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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: TessieWessie on Monday 17 November 08 15:31 GMT (UK)
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I have been trying to trace a Silversmith who lived in Paradise Row, Chelsea around 1808. I have a Fire Insurance policies for his property and belongings but nothing on it shows any further info regarding his trade. He was obviously a man of means living is such an affluent area, and must have been good at what he did.
I have asked the Goldsmith/Silversmith House in London and they couldn't help me. Has anyone else tried and succeeded in finding an unregistered Silversmith from around that time?
Apparently you need to know the hallmark the Silversmith used.
Any ideas ???TWW
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There are a number of sites on-line where you should be able to find the hallmarks used silversmiths if he had a company which was allocated one. Just google "hallmarks". If you post a name and dates some of us have books which might help.
David
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Thanks David
I will do just that and will get back to you if I dont get anywhere.
Thanks for your help
Theresa
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He must have trained somewhere so apprentice records might help. I have a vague recollection of the Guildhall Library in London holding those.
Andrea
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The records of the Silver and Goldsmiths are one of the few sets which aren't in Guildhall Library. They are still held by Goldsmiths' Hall which I assume is where Theresa has already asked. Even there as far as I can see from my books they don't seem to hold apprentice records.
I have had a quick look on google and it isn't going to be easy. I would suggest searching using the following:
hallmarks "makers marks"
but even that comes up with a lot of basic sites which just explain what they are. Adding
London
might reduce the search.
David
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The Silversmith in question was a Moss Levin born c.1770. Place unknown.
Theresa
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Canyou tell us how you know that he was a silversmith please.
David
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On a record I found in the A2A records he is recorded as having taken out a Fire Insurance Policy on his property at No.4 Paradise Row, Chelsea. The brick situate was given as £300 and the household goods/books/wearing apparel and plate were worth £350. This policy was taken out in 1809.
His occupation on the policy was recorded as a Silversmith.
T
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Hello Theresa from lovely Oxfordshire..On Rootschat I am Oxfordshire Cockney but my real name is LES...Moss Levin b 1768 ?? (age taken as death recorded in 1842)..He was my 2X great grandfather and his daughter Kate (Kitty) mrd my great grandfather William Montague Glenister (eventually Chief Constable of Hastings...Moss was a silversmith by trade and had a shop in a small street off the Strand in London..My brother found this out and a couple of years ago found the shop..It is still a silversmith's..They ,,like Moss,,had no personal silver mark,,they made things for other silversmiths on short contracts...I will ask brother to sort out address of shop and send it on OK??? We have no definite answers to his birth place but we believe he was a Russian/Polish Jewish immigrant who came (with his family) to London from Hamburg (Germany) in about 1780..I have been in touch with Richmond Surrey Synagogue ,,as he lived in Richmond,,but the building was destroyed by fire and all early records lost..They only have records from about 1952..We have been searching for about 15 years for Moss information...Soon as we have anything I'll let you know...I don't mind you having my email address-- (*) Regards...LES.
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Theresa...How fast we work when we get excited about this Genealogy job...I love it..I'm 85..
Now then....Moss Levin's shop....Listed in a trade directory as Moss Levin,, Watchmaker/Silversmith,,7 Cooks Court,,Carey Street,,London WC2...Carey Street is just off the Strand....He had no silver marks as he made things for other silversmiths ..The shop is still there and still a silversmiths....Regards...LES...
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Hi Les,
On reading your reply to me the penny dropped, :o as your brother Malcolm is in touch with me and explained his (and your) links with Kitty and Moss. My husband is Arthur Spencer whose mother was Grace Crawford the daughter of Harry Crawford who married Sarah Levine daughter of
Jane Fairey who married Louis (Lewis) Levin, Moss's last boy child. So a 2nd cousin to you and Malcolm. I have several letters concerning Moss which were sent to me via another family member regarding Moss's behaviour while in the Richmond workhouse and also the activities of his wife Ann's the mother of Kate.
Do you think that Moss was the son of Gotschalk Levien who originated from Hannover and went to Jamaica made his fortune and eventually settled and died in Minories, London? That is a line I was given by one of the many gennies who you come across while doing this researching.
Les I would love the address of the shop as Arthur and I will visit it next week. We live in Shepperton so just half hour train ride away. If you want copies of letters I have re the workhouse let me know and I will send them to you.
Thanks for the info, and I hope you enjoy genealogy as much as I have.
Take care.
Tessa
Arthur and I went to see the workhouse site and the gate posts are still there and I suppose Moss was buried in the cemetery at the rear of the workhouse site which is now a very posh gated housing complex.
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HI " COUSIN "... I forwarded the shop address a while ago OK?? I contacted the Jewish newspaper ""Jewish Chronicles"" as I heard about them on BBC program "Heir Hunters"..They record all births deaths and marriages of every Jew in UK..The problem was their records only start in 1841,,same as the census returns..Oh Well!!! They did give me a clue as to Jewish surnames... LEVIE/LEVY/LEVIEN/LEVIN/JUDALIEB are all definitions of the same name..It all depends on where they were born and which district as well...In Warsaw,,Poland for example there are 6 different Jewish districts,,each has a different spelling of the same name..The family records in Poland are so complicated to understand they recommended I don't go there..HE WILL SHOW UP ONE DAY---WON'T YOU Mr MOSS?? Where for art thou Moss?? Are you receiving me--Over... Regards...LES.
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Hi Les,
Just to let you know Arthur and I went to Carey Street yesterday to find where Moss had his business. And, can you believe it, we are convinced we have found it. It's not in a Silversmith Shop as we were led to believe, there is a very old silversmith shop still there but its not where Moss did his business as we asked the proprietor who told us it was never known as the address we have in the trade book. As we know the address for Moss's business was 7 Cooks Court, Carey Street. We went through the passage that is shown on the internet (Lincolns Inn) and once through the passage you find a very large square. Once in the square you can see where a number of barristers domains were housed. Right in the corner is a number 7. In this area there is a passage still, which has a number of doors along it, but the passage leads out to Carey Street, right next door to a pub called the Seven Stars. This pub is about 400years old. We went into the pub to ask where Cooks Court was but unfortunately no one knew. We stayed for a drink and the landlady came and spoke to us asking us if we were new to the area. After explaining what we were trying to find she informed us that at the end of her pub (the end that was up against the passage which led to No.7 in the square) there was s room which she had bought many years ago. It has once been a room off the passage once used by a watchmaker and then a person who sold 2nd hand clothing to the clerks and barristers who worked in Lincolns inn. She bought this room to turn it into a small dining area for her pub. As this room would have been on Carey street, as was the pub, and the passage led out to no.7 in the square we are convinced that the room was the one Moss Levin used to trade as a silversmith and watchmaker/repairer.
I am now going to use the internet to try to find a Barrister by the name of Cook who resided in Lincolns Inn around 1800.
We took photos of both the pub and the room and will try to send them to you if you can give me your e-mail address.
Tessa & Arthur Spencer (your cousins)