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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: wdurham on Sunday 16 November 08 11:49 GMT (UK)
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Charles Green was the eldest son of Richard Green (my g-g-g-g-grandfather) and Mary Elderkin, baptised in Thurleigh in 1801.
In 1841 he is listed as 35, and is living in Thurleigh with Ann 25, Jesse 14, Mary 11, and Benjamin aged 1.
I have assumed Ann is his wife! However, due to Ann's age Jesse and Mary can't be Ann's children.
In 1851, Charles and Ann Elizabeth, his wife, are 46 and 36 respectively, Mary Ann is 15, and there are several younger children including Benjamin now aged 11. Jesse is 23 and doing 4 months hard labour for poultry stealing!
The inference is that Ann Elizabeth must have been a second wife, and at least Jesse and probably Mary (depending on what her correct age is) are children of a first marriage.
There's nothing on the IGI, as Thurleigh stops at 1812, so would some kind soul see if they can find in the later Thurleigh records:
1. A marriage for Charles and Ann Elizabeth - I would guess the earliest possible date would be about 1830 and the latest 1837 as there's nothing on FreeBMD.
2. A baptism for Jesse, probably in 1827 as his age is pretty consistent throughout the census returns, in order to get his mother's name.
3. A possible first marriage for Charles to that mother, prior to Jesse's birth in 1827?
4. And of there is such a marriage, a possible burial for that wife?
I've checked the NBI on FamilyHistory online, but there are so many deaths for female Greens (if there WAS a first wife, I don't know her first name) in Bedfordshire between 1827 and 1840 that it simply isn't practical (or affordable!) to look them all up.
Any help gratefully received!
Wendy
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Hi Wendy
Thurleigh marriages are on the BVRI
11 Oct 1824 Charles Green and Hannah Lovel
26 Apr 1835 Charles Green and Elisabeth Ann Brown
Burial at Thurleigh of Hannah Green age 42 on 22 Sep 1833
All the best
David
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That's brill, David. Many thanks!
My deductive powers aren't what they used to be but they still work pretty well, obviously!
Not sure about that burial though - if Hannah was 42 in 1833, that would have made her a good 10 years older than Charles, who was b about 1801. Still, stranger things have happened.... Jesse went on to marry a woman about 12 years older than himself, so perhaps a liking for older women ran in the family!
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David
Am messaging you on this thread as it's your most recent activity (I can't work out how to send a personal msg!!)...on another thread, you mentioned you have researched the Legates of Henlow back to C17th - would you consider letting me have a copy?
Many thanks, Steve
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Hi Steve
Welcome to Rootschat
To send a personal message just click on "Bedfordshire Boy" on the left hand side of this message and one of the options that comes up is Send a personal message. If you send me a PM with your email address I'll send you my Legate report - what's your connection?
David
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Hello Steve and welcome.
I think you may need to post one more message before the Personal message option becomes available. I recall that 3 messages was the requirement by the moderators at one time.
Hi Wendy,
This GREEN family is part of my husbands tree and I have an extensive old handwritten tree passed on by hubby's grandparents.
I can't vouch for accuracy but this is what it says
Charles GREEN b 29 Nov 1801 died 2 Jan 1866
Wife1 Hannah LOVELL died 22 Oct 1833
Charles and Hannah married 11 Oct 1824
They had 3 chn
Elizabeth b & d 26 Apr 1825
Jesse b 1 March 1827
Richard b 26 Jun 1831 d 22 Sept 1833
Wife 2 Mary Ann BROWN married 26 March 1835
They have 8 more children
Our line is through the youngest brother of Charles, Benjamin.
It gives lineage back to Charles great grandparents. If you don't have this information I am happy to pass it on.
Regards
Robyn
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Thanks everyone for yr responses (and sorry for hijacking somebody else's thread!!!) - am now in touch with David directly. Steve
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Many thanks, Robyn - I take it you are one of the Australian branch, if you descend from Benjamin? I descend from his sister Eleanor, who married John Armstrong of Ravensden in 1833.
I was interested in Charles, as he was the only brother who stayed in the UK - Benjamin went to South Australia and William went to the USA, both in the mid 1840s.
Your information reflects what David found on the BVRI - other than the first name of Charles's second wife. Your info says Mary Ann - BVRI says Elizabeth Ann. But as she appears to have used her second name anyway, I guess it's not material! She WAS listed as Ann Elizabeth in 1851, though.
However, I can't find her or any of the younger children after 1851. Charles and Benjamin are boarders in Keyston, Hunts, in 1861, but no sign of the rest of the family. Does your old info say what happened to them?
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Hello Wndy;
The Riseley PR says Richard Green was from Cople on his marriage to Mary Elderkin in 1795.
Also there's an Elizabeth Elderkin b 1821 who married Hugh Doughty in 1840
see http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,303642.0.html
John
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Hello Wendy,
It is nice to have contact with you.
Yes my husband is a descendant from Benjamin and his second wife Hannah GARNER. We are in South Australia.
I have papers that show the work as it progressed on the Australian GREEN tree and it has resulted in a booklet about the GREENs in Australia and their heritage in England. The English heritage is acknowledged as the work of "our fourth cousin in England who prepared the GREEN FAMILY OF BEDFORD which shows years of research"
There was correspondence with descendants from Elizabeth (3rd daughter to Richard & Mary Elderkin). In fact it includes a photo where Benjamin's & Elizabeth's descendants, meet in Orpington.
Information is recorded as to where & when the families migrated but under Charles it states "This family unknown, in England"
Charles has his family listed with dates of birth for all children but no further information on the children. The youngest child is born in 1853.
Its a shame but I haven't any further information on the Charles line.
I too noted the Mary Ann BROWN /Elizabeth Ann BROWN difference, it is recorded as Mary on my paperwork. (Possibly a transcribing error on this tree.)
Like you said, it makes little difference and it seems she was known as Ann.
Wonder what happened to them.
Regards
Robyn
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Hi, John-P - thanks for that note from Riseley PRs, every little helps!
Robyn - I guess we are distant cousins of a sort? I do have family in Australia, but they are of much more recent origin, having got there in about 1939!
There's quite a bit about the Greens on the net, including a very comprehensive site for the Biggs family. Elizabeth Green, the elder sister of Charles, William and Benjamin Green, married into this family. There's also an Ancestral File on the IGI.
We know that Richard Green married Mary Elderkin in Riseley in 1795, and at that time was living in Cople. His burial in Thurleigh in 1812 says he was 38, putting a birth in 1774-ish. The only likely baptism is of a Richard Green, son of Richard and Susannah, in Cardington in 1778. All the trees on the internet say that this is the same man. Cople and Cardington are practically joined at the hip, so the different parish is not a problem. But it has been assumed that the age discrepancy is because Richard lied about his age in order to say he was 21 when he married Mary Elderkin in 1795, when in fact he was only 17, and he maintained the fiction all his life.
Whilst this is perfectly plausible, as his father was long dead, and his mother may have been also - I can't find a definitive burial for her - I am not convinced it is enough to prove the connection between a Richard who was baptised in Cardington in 1778, and the Richard who was from Cople at the time of his marriage, married in Riseley, settled in Thurleigh and died in 1812 allegedly aged 38. The Cardington baptism could have been a late one, but as the same couple had a daughter baptised in early 1774, and seemed to baptise as they went along rather than in job lots, it's not likely.
There is one other tenuous link - Richard's eldest son Charles named one of his daughters Susannah. But there are no other obvious naming conventions.
By making the link between Richard b 1774 and Richard baptised 1778, I could add several generations of Richard's forbears to my direct line - but find myself reluctant to do it and go through a lot of checking-up on someone else's research if it's not the right Richard!
What do others think? Robyn especially - how long ago would you estimate the Green research that you have was actually done? If it predates the internet, it is more likely to be the product of painstaking research from actual records....
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Susanna Green widow was buried at Cardington on 28 March 1803. Her husband Richard was buried at Cardington on 5 May 1781.
There's no extra detail on the 2 Aug 1778 baptism of Richard. But it wasn't a late baptism, as in the 1 Jan 1782 census of Cardington the family is living in Fenlake, a hamlet of Cardington, and Richard is shown as age 3 yrs 6 mths ie birth Jun 1778. You may as well have the full entry now the book's open!
Cottage, Fenlake
Susannah Green Widow. Maiden name Simons, born at Hail Weston Hunts, spins linen age 41 (Ed's note: marr at Cople 11 Oct 1763)
Child 1: Elizabeth Spins linen; age 14.9
2: Thomas, servant to Thos. Brimley, Harrowden 11.6
3: Susannah at school by Mr Whitbread 9.6
4: Mary at school by Mr Howard age 7
5: Richard 3.6
Thomas married in Cardington on 13 July 1801 when he was described as of Cople.
There doesn't appear to have been any Greens baptising children in Cople, the previous one before Richard's marriage in 1795 being in 1726.
It would be interesting to see exactly what the marriage entry says: was his age given as being under 21, with consent, or was he over 21? Burial ages are often suspect, but age 38 should be more accurate than, say, age 78.
Sticking my scrawny little neck out, I think it's the same Richard
David
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Great stuff, David - very many thanks!
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Hi Wendy, :D
The booklet was completed Dec 1980 and many years of research must have gone into the compiling of the English records.
They date back to the 1600s and include Heath Tax returns, Letters of Administration and Parish Relief records to name only a few.
Well beyond what the internet can provide even today.
The work is attributed to "our fourth cousin who, incidently, is the secretary of the NW Kent Family History Society".
My guess is this is someone from Elizabeth's line.
It appears that Benjamin's father Richard caused a few problems here initially too, as one record stated he died aged 106 :o
Three Family Bibles in Australia were used as part of the collation of the Australian records so I can only assume one bible had this grand death age noted.
The booklet's introduction and explanation of how the tree was compiled, includes giving details of some correspondence re this 106 yrs problem. Including this response from the 4th cousin " I extracted all the GREENs from Thurleigh registers up to 1813 and there is only one Benjamin ..."
The Australian compiler concludes
" We are now convinced that Benjamin's father was Richard GREEN bap. 2/8/1778 at Cardington Bedfordshire, Buried 12/1/1812 at Thurleigh aged 33 not 106."
Looking at his age at death - 33 versus 38- Could the 8 possibly be a 3? This would make the birth year 1878 correct.
There is information on Mary GREEN (nee ELDERKIN) here are a few details.
She remarried John OSBOURNE, 63, widower on 13/10/1815. John died aged 84 and was buried 31/3/1836.
1841 Census has Charles, William & Benjamin living near their mother in Thurleigh.
1851 census has Mary living alone. Charles & Elizabeth near by with their families.
Nov 1859 Mary enters Bedford Union Workhouse. Details of a newspaper article are included when the mayor visited the workhouse on Boxing day.
Mary OSBOURN died 9/10/1862 and was taken back to Thurleigh for burial on 11/10/1862
Adding this about Susannah GREEN nee SIMONS.
It gives her burial details as found by David
It states that she was given Parish Relief with the details after the death of Richard.
The 1781 census details taken by the village schoolteacher are also recorded as given by David.
Samuel Whitbread, a brewer and John HOWARD, the prison reformer were two local philanthropists, they paid for the schooling of Susannah age 9 and Mary 6.
In 1787 a Samuel Whitbread provided free rent of 4 furnished houses with a garden, to widows, widowers, single persons of sober decent life and conversation, regular attendance at public worship, etc. Susannah GREEN, widow aged 47, 23 yrs residence in the Parish is recorded as a beneficary .
I have not verified any of the information but the research is extensive, comprehensive and appears very thoroughly researched.
Where records are missing or may be questionable, it is noted.
The records David has provided match those included and keeping in mind this work was pre 1980....
I have no hesitation in accepting Richard (b 1778 d 1812) as our man.
Hope this helps Wendy.
Regards
Robyn
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Ah, thanks so much, Robyn - that was just the kind of provenance I was hoping for. "Proper" research!
As David and John-P will confirm, there is already one instance in this Green-Armstrong family where a completely incorrect link has been made between a William Armstrong b 1792 living in Thurleigh b Ravensden and a William Armstrong b in Upper Gravenhurst in the same year, simply because there was only one William in the Beds parish records transcribed to the IGI. Coincidentally, the son of this very William Armstrong was living next door to Mary Osbourn in Park End in 1851!
The 33 vs 38 point is interesting, because Richard would indeed have been 33 at his death - he would not have been 34 until the summer of 1812. The NBI has transcribed the age as 38. Your records state 33. As you suggest, there's a strong possibility of a transcription error here.
There is comment on the subject included in the Biggs family tree at:
http://www.biggsworld.com/Green%20History/greenpage5.htm
The possible age of 106 at death is a bit baffling - there aren't any Richard Greens dying in Bedfordshire between 1860 and 1890 according to FreeBMD. But then according to the link above, his daughter Elizabeth is alleged to have died aged 99 in 1899, and I can't find her death on FreeBMD either!
One last question - in 1841 Mary Osborn nee Elderkin is living with Edward Green aged 10, close to Benjamin and Hannah - in 1851 she is living a couple of doors up from Edward aged 20 and his wife Sarah. Do your records indicate who this Edward is?
Thanks for all your help - what with your info and help from David and John-P, I now feel comfortable with Richard 1778 as my 4xgreat grandfather!
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The Thurleigh PR transcription states on the burial on 12 Jan 1812 of Rich Green the age "38." - most likely where the NBI got it's figure from.
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Pleased it has helped Wendy.
It appears that this has been well researched and the detail is amazing.
As I have not ventured into this arm of the family yet I can only give you what these documents reveal and trust it is right.
It pays to be cautious and it must have been devastating to discover you had the wrong William Armstrong.
I take on-line trees with much caution as I have seen big errors concerning some of my ancestors.
In these records there is an Edward born to Eleanor b 28 February 1831 in Thurleigh.
Perhaps he was brought up by his grandmother. There is no other detail on him.
Eleanor is shown as marrying 21/10/1833 to John ARMSTRONG in Thurleigh.
Thank you for the link, when I get to this branch it will make an interesting addition.
I think the 106 yr old death may have been a wild stab by an uninformed descendant of Benjamin. It apparently only popped up once and was discredited on investigation.
Guess the question of Richard GREENs age will remain as John P has been able to check the PR.
I don't mind passing on the information so ask as much as you need.
Regards
Robyn
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My notes on the marriage of Thomas Green to Martha Maughan at Cardington, 13th July 1801, suggest that Thomas was from Cople.
I would like to think that Thomas and Richard were probably brothers, although it could, of course, be coincidence. However, I don't see a Thomas Green in the family of Richard and Susanna.
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... except that there IS a Thomas Green, baptised May 27th 1770, to Richard and Susanna. I must have missed this one while transcribing out of the registers, back before the IGI was online.
So, this looks like good circumstantial evidence in favour.
(Sorry about my previous post.)
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Hi SteveG
My family for Richard GREEN & Susannah SIMONS
Boy d at b 7/6/1674
Elizabeth 7/9/1766
Susannah 17/2/1769 d 2/5/1769
Thomas 27/5/1770
Mary 27/7/1774
Richard b 2/8/1778 d 12/1/1812
Also for the Richard b 6/2/1737 who married Susannah Simons
His father is Thomas GREEN and mother Elizabeth.
Regards
Robyn
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Aha! The plot thickens!
"Edward born to Eleanor b 28 February 1831 in Thurleigh"
I wonder why she didn't take him to Ravensden when she married John Armstrong? Or perhaps she did - we only have the 1841 census as a guide to who lived where, and though Edward is with his granny in Thurleigh, that could have been just a visit. His wife Sarah was a Bolnhurst girl, but all three villages are so close. I might send for the marriage certificate of Edward and Sarah - which would give his residence on marriage.
Though there is no sign of Edward and Sarah after 1851 following a quick look - I wonder if they emigrated as well?
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The Thurleigh PR transcription states on the burial on 12 Jan 1812 of Rich Green the age "38." - most likely where the NBI got it's figure from.
I went to Beds Archives today & checked the original book used to record the baptisms & burials at Thurleigh. It IS definitely '38' & not anything like '33' . My mate Trevor who works in the records office concurs with me. Assuming that was right at that time & nobody was guessing then how old was poor dead Richard, we take it he was born 1774 - but not necessarily baptised then.
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More info; Charles Green's first marriage to Hannah Lovell on 11 Oct 1824 was in presence of William Green & Sarah Darlow.
His 2nd marriage on 26 Apr 1835 of course has him as a widower, & it is to Elizabeth Ann Brown, in the presence of William Holley & G F Whateley.
Their daughter Mary Ann was baptised 15 Nov 1835
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Hi John
I think Richard was born and baptised in 1778. The 1 jan 1782 census gives his age as 3 years 6 months, which would mean he was about 6 weeks old at baptism. Bog standard baptism! More likely it's the 38 that's wrong either because it's an error, or he'd been pulling the wool over his family's eyes ever since he got married.
David
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Having done some transcription from scans of parish records for the Kent FHS, I can see how 33 and 38 could be confused, especially in the early 1800s when so few people were literate. Some parish incumbents had handwriting that you wouldn't normally gratify with the name!
And there is always the point that Richard MIGHT just have lied about his age on marriage (a) to get around the consent rules as his father was dead and mother apparently on parish relief and/or (b) to avoid having to admit to his wife-to-be that he was still only a boy by comparison with her, and then was obliged to sustain the deception. Mary Elderkin would have been the informant for his burial, and she may well have believed he was the same age as her instead of 3-4 years younger.
It's still an anomaly, but one we are never likely to be able to resolve....in the meantime, given the quality of all the other research, I think - like Robyn - that I am inclined to accept Richard as my gggg-grandfather.
And thanks, John-P , for checking the original. I will also folow up the Charles witnesses.
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I agree that it is more likely to an error on the death record re the age of Richard possibly by the informant, if not an original transcription mistake.
I just wanted to say Wendy, Richard is also my "other half's" 4x grandfather.
Not sure what relationship that will make you both but a cousin of sorts (and an inlaw to me). Nice to meet you! :D
In a different family branch we have a widow remarrying with a 2 year old child. Documents show the second husband rejected the child and he was brought up by his two sets of grandparents. So sad! But times were different and harsh. My heart went out to his mother. Our child was well loved but it is unclear how much contact his mother was "allowed" with him.
It looks like Edward was included and cared for too.
Regards
Robyn
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But John looked at the original parish register, which was definitely 38, so it can't have been a transcription error. Unless you're referring to the register itself as being a transcription, from rough notes made by the vicar
David
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..... and by the way, not every entry had an age - it must be what the vicar was told (or assumed)
John
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Yes, David and John - I agree that if the register is clear enough for there to be no confusion - and a second opinion also says 38! - then it must be 38, so not a transcription error at a later stage.
But I hadn't actually considered the point David made - there is an outside chance, I suppose, that the vicar couldn't read his own writing, and DID mistranscribe the age into the register from some notes he had taken at the time....
I would favour the fib, though - if you were 16 or 17 and met a 19 or 20 year old girl you fancied, would you let on you were that young? Especially if you were from different parishes and she wasn't likely to catch you out?
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The John OSBORN who married Mary GREEN in 1815 was my 5x great grandfather. If you would like any info re the OSBORN family please advise.
Osborn
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I know this is an old thread, but would there be any chance of getting details of Mary OSBORN (nee ELDERKEN) ? I did not know that she was already a widow when she married JOHN OSBORN and had children of her own. I would like to follow this through. Any details would be appreciated.
Osborn
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Hello, Osborn ....
There are two baptisms for Mary Elderkin on the IGI - both in Barham, Hunts, which is 4-5 miles from Sawtry, given in 1851 as her birthplace.
5 Jan 1775, daughter of William and Sarah
20 Feb, 1779, daughter of William and Mary
Both are entries submitted by a church member rather than official extractions, so need a pinch of salt.
This is shown by the fact that there is another baptism AFTER the second Mary:
Sarah Elderkin, 19 Sept 1779, Barham, to William and Sarah.
So were there two Williams in Barham - one married to a Sarah and the other to a Mary - or is the second "Mary" baptism in 1779 a mistake? The Biggs family tree says that the 20 Feb baptism was in 1778, not 1779, and was an Elizabeth rather than another Mary.
http://www.biggsworld.com/biggs2003.pdf
A William Elderkin was baptised in Sawtry on 10 Feb 1750, son of William and Eleanor. He was one of several children born to this couple, according to the IGI:
George Elderkin - Bap 18 Oct 1747 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Bap 05 Mar 1748 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Death: 06 Jul 1752
William Elderkin - Bap 10 Feb 1750 Sawtry
Elizabeth Elderkin - Bap 11 Feb 1753 Sawtry
Eleanor Elderkin - Bap 05 Jan 1755 Sawtry
Benjamin Elderkin - Bap 27 Oct 1756 Sawtry
Elizabeth Elderkin - Bap 27 May 1759 Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Birth: 1760 All Saints, Sawtry
Mary Elderkin - Death: 19 Jun 1761
John Elderkin - Bap 08 Nov 1761 Sawtry
These are also all member entries rather than controlled extractions. There is no evidence that this William b 1750 was the William baptising children in Barham.
But the naming conventions suggest that William and Eleanor of Sawtry were the grandparents of "our" Mary who married Richard Green (and later John Osborn).
Hope this helps a little - I have not gone any further back with the Elderkins as yet, as the above all comes from non-official records and needs confirmation before going on....
Wendy
PS
For Robyn in australia (redgum) and anyone else that might still follow this thread, the Biggs family tree referenced above is based extensively on the work of June Biggs, who is acknowledged on the Biggs home page.
Robyn mentioned last year that:
"The booklet was completed Dec 1980 and many years of research must have gone into the compiling of the English records.
They date back to the 1600s and include Heath Tax returns, Letters of Administration and Parish Relief records to name only a few.
Well beyond what the internet can provide even today.
The work is attributed to "our fourth cousin who, incidently, is the secretary of the NW Kent Family History Society".
My guess is this is someone from Elizabeth's line."
Snap - the two are one and the same! June Biggs retired from being the NWKFHS Secretary in 1985. And yes, the Biggs do stem from Elizabeth.
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There's only one William Elderkin marriage in Hunts 1754-1780 - at Alconbury Weston in 1774 to Mary Oiley (Hunts Marriage Index). There are a number of Elderkin burials in AW including two Marys 28 Oct 1780 and 10 Oct 1783, before a marriage of William to Ann Sharman on 2 Feb 1784 at AW. He wasn't described as widower so perhaps it was a different William.
But was it the same William and Mary as in Barham. I have my doubts, which begs the question as to where they married.
Similarly there's no marriage of a William and Eleanor, as shown on the Biggs tree, in Hunts. (What a pity that the Biggs tree has fallen into the same trap as Ancestry transcribers by misreading Hunts for Hants and then expanding it to Hampshire. Spoils what otherwise looks to be a well researched tree)
David
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Hi, David -
The Alconbury Weston lot do seem to be a separate family - most of the IGI baptisms are children of George, who could be George b 1847 to William Snr and Eleanor - he baptised and buried an Eleanor in 1784, and perhaps another in 1786. He was married to a Dinah or Diana, who was buried in AW 13 Feb 1825 aged 75. George himself was probably buried 20 Dec 1810 - I say probably, because by then there was a younger George baptising children in AW, and the 1810 burial could conceivably have been an infant death, though it is not noted as such.
This younger George was born to William and Mary in 1778 - there had been other Georges born to George and Dinah and Benjamin and Ann, but they both died as infants. (Ancestry Christening Records and Hunts Burials from FindMyPast) Benjamin and George were probably the sons of William Snr and Eleanor. This William is probably the one who married Mary Oiley in 1774 that you found in the HMI, and may well have been their brother.
So there were TWO Williams. One baptising children in Barham and one doing the same in AW - unless the same William was living a double life and nipping backwards and forwards between Sarah in Barham and Mary in AW! :)
So which William was the son of William Snr and Eleanor? On the sheer balance of probabilities, I would guess that the William of AW, living in the same village as his two (probable) brothers Benjamin and George would be the son of William and Eleanor. Though this would only be a guess, and by no means definite.
So where did the other William come from?
I have found a marriage for the William Elderkin Jnr who married Sarah at precisely the right time - to Sarah Heaps, in Titchmarsh, Northamptonshire, on 31 Jan 1774. Titchmarsh is about 8 miles from Barham. William and Sarah's first child (so far found, that is!) was baptised a year later.
I also found a burial in Barham of Sarah Elderkin, daughter of William and Sarah on 10 Oct 1779 - presumably this is the child baptised 17 Sep 1779 by the same parents.
This proves that in 1779, William Jnr of Barham was definitely married to a Sarah, not a Mary, so the 1779 baptism of a Mary to William and Mary must be unrelated or the member contributing the entry made a mistake about the mother's name, and it was actually Sarah.
I haven't found a burial for William Jnr, but a Sarah aged 77 was buried in Spaldwick - a couple of miles from Barham - on 17 July 1829. That puts her birth at about 1752, perfect for the wife of a man born in 1751!
Interestingly there IS a burial of a William in Spaldwick, but it is probably an infant, buried 30 Mar 1812, son of (yet another) William and Mary.
As for William Snr and Eleanor, no marriage found, but they were buried in Sawtry. William on 2 Dec 1762 (this fits as there were no more baptisms after 1761, although Eleanor was young enough to have had several more) and Eleanor on 12 June 1782, a widow.
All very messy, and I'm trying to put it into some kind of order, but that's the story so far....
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Robyn, I just joined so am not able to email you directly. The research you write about sounds like some done for 'A Green Tree: Australia UK USA' compiled by the Lewises in Australia with help from people in the UK and USA distributed about 1985. I have been looking at validating the information and extending it. The copy I have doesn't mention the extensive research you discuss. Can you giive me more info. Thanks Paul
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Welcome to Roots chat Paul. You need to post 3 times before you can use the personal message system but I will try contacting you.
I had missed seeing the 31 Aug 09 posts so your contact has drawn my attention to them. We were away at the time and I guess they got overlooked in the mountain of emails that I had waiting when we returned.
Firstly- Wendy, yes I am sure you are correct with the BIGGS connection. It fits with everyything I have here including personal notes I inherited. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier.
Now to the 3 documents I have.
The typed pages are stapled together and the cover page has GREEN FAMILY TREE 1980 (handwritten). The first page has GREEN FAMILY TREE (Bedfordshire -- South Australia) The whole booklet comprises of 11 pages. Frustratingly the Foreward has no name attached but refers to Benjamin & Hannah GREEN as "my Great Great Grandparents " .
There is no reference to USA Greens.
Aside from the booklet their is another paper one side showing AUSTRALIAN GREEN TREE and the other GREEN TREE in BEDFORDSHIRE. The Bedfordshire Tree is detailed and gives notes attached to certain people indicating when Parish relief was received or where they resided or any other points of interest. It indicates one line sailing to America.
Yet another pile of stapled pages giving the descendants of Benjamin.
There is a note from Enid & Bill Lewis to my late mother in law re the Greens. So Paul I think you may be correct in linking it to your 1885 work by the Lewis family.
Regards
Robyn
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Robn
Attached is a short list of descendants of William Green b. c1580 - the publication is not sensitive to privacy concerns and so could not be made generally available. The 1985 version had 45 pages.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
It would be best to remove the file if it is not for general publication as it is very public on here. You can edit and modify your post.
(Ahh I stand corrected your file is fine for on here as I see you have modified it before posting.)
I have sent you a PM with my email address. If you have not received it make one more post and you will have access to the Private Message system.
Regards
Robyn
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My great grand mothers first husband was an Edward Green. He would have
arrived in Rockhampton queensland australia about 1865. He was a ships
carpenter. This query is a shot in the dark, as so far we know nothing about him.
hope you can help,
PWH
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From A Green Tree
There was an Edward b. 1831
Lost contact
6. Eleanor (Ellen) ARMSTRONG b. 26-Jun-1808
Eleanor ARMSTRONG b. 26-Jun-1808 Thurleigh m. 21-Oct-1833 Thurleigh John Armstrong
On 11-Oct-1831 Eleanor was a witness at her brother Benjamin's marriage. On 21-Oct-1833 Eleanor Green spinster married, by banns, John Armstrong at Thurleigh. Both were of the parish and both made their marks. Her brother William was a witness.
6.1 Edward GREEN b. 28-Feb-1831
Edward appears in the 1841 Census aged 10 living with his grandmother Mary Osborn at Thurleigh. In the 1851 census he appears at Park End, Thurleigh aged 20 an Agricultural labourer married to Sarah 25 a lacemaker b. Bolnhurst, Bedfordshire
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There is a possibility that we are both seeking the same Edward Green. I might
be able to find the details my Edward Greens marriage in Rockhampton in 1865
to Ann norah Gates. That will either confirm or negate that possibility.
pwh
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Hi all,
I have found this thread rather late, but nevertheless very interested as Richard Green & Mary Elderkin are my husband`s 3xGG Parents (his line is through their daughter Ann).
To answer WDurham`s query about Edward and wife Sarah, yes they did emigrate. I haven`t gone into their movements in great detail but have note of a son James born in Canada 1859, a daughter Ellen b1864 Illinois and a son Arthur b1868 Michigan.
Linda