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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Trees on Thursday 13 November 08 11:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi can anyone tell me where Connon Street Wolverhampton was in 1861 please i have failed to find it on the web
Rebecca Cadman was a publican at the ROSE and CROWn
i would like any informtion about this pub
Trees
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Hiya Trees
I can't find the Rose and Crown either but I have a book at home with old Wolverhampton pubs in so I will have a look later for you
After a bit of googling I've found out that Cannon Street was in Blakenhall which has been altered a lot so I'm guessing it has vanished. There was also a Westylan Chapel in the same street
Willow x
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Many thanks Willow was Blakenhall well in Wolverhampton or out in the suburbs?
Trees
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Hiya Trees
Its quite near to the town centre on the Sedgley side
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blakenhall
Willow x
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many thanks I like to try and pin piont the folks on the tree this is pub number 51 ;D
In 1851 Rebecca's husband was a retail Brewer in Willenhall Road is that nearby?
Cheers
Trees
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Hiya Trees
Yes its the other side of the town centre probably about 1/2 hours walk from Blakenhall. Willenhall Road is still there you will find it on Google maps.
Wolverhampton City Centre is encircled by ringroads and if you go west from Willenhall Road Blakenhall is between Dudley Road and Penn Road which both lead to the ring roads around Wolverhampton
Willow x
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Sorry not to have replied earlier had a visitor
many thanks Willow I can see it now on the maps
Please let me know if you turn anything on the Rose and Crown up.
Trees :)
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Hiya Trees
I'll let you once I can put my hands on the book - bit difficult when you have over a 1000 in no particular order lol (must sort out a system)
Willow x
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many thanks Willow no rush just grateful for any help at all
Trees
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Hi Willow and Trees,
I'm really just noting an interest in this thread as I am trying to decipher a street name in 1841 that begins with "C" and ends in "on".
The street is on/off? Walsall Street in St George's district of Wolverhampton (the part between the bridge and the east end).
From the Wolverhanpton archives transcriptions, I noticed that by far the majority of Wolverhampton burials from Cannon Street were at St George's, with just a few at St Peter's, so I think that there must have been a Cannon Street in St George's area.
The road name I am looking at is in HO107:999:12 and is reported a number of times but I can't make out the handwriting. It could be Camion, Carrion, Cannon or even end ...own.
[mod: sorry, forgot to add that it must be a substantial street of say 50 or so houses but can't find it on any map. There is a large roundabout on the ring-road very nearby on current maps]
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Thanks Dudley thats interesting unfortunately the RO is closed until January so were not able to give me a full reply to my query re Rose and Crown but they have given me a telephone number of a specialist in pub history in the area. Will let you know what answers he is able to supply
Trees
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Hi Trees (and Willow),
Just found a Cannon St, off the south side of Walsall St in 1861 and Rebecca Cadman at the Rose and Crown is at ref RG9:1996:F49:P18. She has a daughter, 3 sons, all coal miners, and a niece living with her.
The continuation of Walsall Street joins with Horseley Fields to become Willenhall Road so would be quite nearby.
So I am now pretty sure that the indecipherable street name, off Walsall Street in 1841, would have beem Cannon Street.
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Many many thanks Dudley that pin points it well Now allI need is to find the licence for the Rose and Crown to see how long she was there and if her husband ever kept it and then A photo or picture Plenty to keep me busy ;D BUT you have told me where to start looking and the first step is always the most important :)
Trees
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Unfortunately, from multimap, it looks like all the surrounding side streets are long gone. Perhaps the "Great Western" railway yard referred to in the enumerators description, expanded to cover all that.
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DUUHHH! just re-read the info I found its says 'The Wesleyans also have small chapels in Cannon Street, Blakenall, and Monmore Green. '
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Wolverhampton/index.html
Heres some shots of Horseley Fields but none of the street we want http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/DavidClare/HorseleyFlds.htm
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/DavidClare5/Photos.htm
Willow x
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;D ;D
Thats just the sort of thing I do Willow
Thanks for the links
trees
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Willow, you just brought back some great childhood memories when I lived in the area of Horsley fields & Deans road area. I forgot what it looked like until I checked your links. Thanks for that :)
Dave
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Your welcome Dave
The photos of the town brought back a lot of memories for me too I had forgotten how much Wolverhampton has changed ;D
Willow x
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Hi Trees, Willow etc
Thankyou so much, I have been reading your posts as I am also looking for Cannon Street, No.19 to be exact,my father was born there,in 1930 - His parents were Alfred and Caroline Nicholas (nee Cadman ! ) Alf ( my grandad) worked for the railway for all his working life,so reading what you have found about the railway works in that street/area is very interesting, as is the fact that the Rose and Crown was managed by another Cadman! I`m certain there has to be a connection there.....
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A big welcome to Rootschat Lourdes01 and possibly a welcome to the family too It would be a big coincidence for your CADMAN not to link to the one at the Rose and Crown Strangely I have just been doing some work on my pubs site and am due to add an update later today.
Do you know who your Caroline's parents were? I haven't gone down below the 1861 census with the CADMAN family and have not got a Caroline but I will take a look for you Our connection with them is rather loose. one of the daughters from the "Crown" married a BOWDLER and one of their daughters married an ARNOLD who is on a branch of my tree.
For interest I am now also looking for anything on these pubs in the Midlands
The King William IV/King's head/King William-one pub different names over time - 8 Pensnett Rd Dudley
Old Coach and Horses Stourbridge Rd Dudley
Seven StarsHigh St Dudley
Somerset Arms Dixon's Green Dudley
The Waterloo Mill St Brierley Hill
and The Cross keys Brettell Lane Kingswinford
Any information of any of these will be very welcome
Trees
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This won't be much help with the current queries, but the 1851 census street index for Wolverhampton (and most other places) is now online on Your Archives
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Wolverhampton_Registration_District%2C_1851_Census_Street_Index
There are some 1841 indexes too.
Mean_genie
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many thanks genie thats work noting
trees
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Hi
thanks genie for that info it may prove useful.
Hi trees
My grt grandparents were Thomas and Mary Ann Cadman (nee Evans) Thomas was born 1856 in Willenhall - his parents were Thomas (b. 1823) and Rosanna Glover (widow)(nee Moreman).Their place of residence was Bilston when they married ( they married in Sedgeley). His parents were Robert Cadman and Caroline Armstrong. Robert and Thomas (snr) were both miners.
However my grt grandfather ,Thomas (jnr) was an ironworker, and from what I have been learning lately there were connections to cannon street for this occupation too, as well as the grt western railway works (where my grandfather,Alfred Nicholas worked)
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Hi Lourdes, Happy Easter I'm just off to Church and Will take a look later but My Simeon b abt 1804 was married to Rebecca ARMSTRONG so is that yet another coincidence or are we really on to something here
See you later
Trees
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Hi Lourdes.
My Tree is topped with
Robert Cadman and Mary COOPER m 1797 Snifnal Shropshire
2 known ch
Thomas1802 bap Wombridge Shropshire m Ann LEEK 1845 W'hampton
Simeon 1804 bap Wombridge Shropshire m Rebecca ARMSTRONG 1827 W'hampton
Did they have a Robert? it certainly was normal practice to name a son after the father but I have not found one yet and there ids a gap between the m and Thomas. Thomas is a promenant name on your line isn't it
Rebecca Armstrong was bap 1808 Dawley Magna Shropsh dau Thomas/Ann? she had a sister
Caroline ARMSTRONG 30 Dec 1810 Dawley Magna
you can see the entry family search P008591
the names were latinised as many registers were kept in Latin at that time.
The problem is that she would be too young to be the mother of
Thomas b 1823
I'll Carry on looking
trees
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Hi again Now I am worried I have found the 1851 census
Class: HO107; Piece: 2019; Folio: 568; Page: 24
With a Robert Cadman 1815 Dawley (An..ry has transcribed his age as 30 but to me it looks like 36)
wife Caroline 1816 Dawley
I can see they may have knocked a few years from her age to be nearer in age to him and there does not appear to be another younger Caroline bapt in Dawley P008591 1666 - 1812 or C008592 1813 - 1828
but they are both definitely from DAWLEY so is this the Robert Cadman and Caroline Armstrong you have mentioned? Do you have the details of the wedding? In 1851 there is no Thomas with them and she would have been young to have one near 1823 where have you found Thomas? I am now itching to know if its a case of brothers marrying sisters
Trees
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it looks like Caroline died 1851-1861 and Robert m Abigail Hawthorn dec qtr 1853 does this fit your family knowledge? I am still worried that I cant find a Thomas help
Trees
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Hi trees
yes thats right.
sorry not to have been back online earlier, I have been held up with family.
Well I did manage a quick sneak but not long enough to reply...but I did read your messages !! and I have been going through things in my head, always fatal, and now I would like to ask if you could help with a few things. There seems to be other connections with cannon street eg. Robert was living at 22 cannon street on 1851 census, and Caroline must have died the year after possibly in childbirth with Maria.
According to his marriage cert. to Abigail his father was also Robert (decd)
but I can`t see a Rebecca anywhere, can you tell me how she fits (if at all ).
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Good morning and sadly good night my son has to be up at 4 an and it near midnight now so I'll write in the morning but quickly Rebecca appears to be Carolines sister and tops my tree so hi cousin
its the age of your Thomas 1823 tht is bugging me seeif you can sort it out for me while I sleep ;D
Trees
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Hi trees
good night god bless.
will try to get online in morning.
I am very very confused...but am thinking and checking what i have.
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Good morning Lourdes its 5 20 am and i am enjoying listening to the dawn chorus Son has gone about an hour and I just cant get back to sleep If you pm me your email address I will send you the descent sheet that I have so far. We don't put E mail addresses on the boards as a precaution against spam and the chart may be too big for the RC system
My big worry is that your Caroline constantly has a birth year 1816 and the only one I can find is 1810 sister to my Rebecca It is possible she lost a few years to match Robert's age but 6 years is quite a difference.
Trees
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Robert with Abigail 1861 was b Wombridge 1818 but the only Robert I can find there was baptised 1812 to Robert /Sarah
Robert with Caroline 1851 was b Dawley 1816 and the only one I can find there was bap 1828 so its not him
The Robert and Caroline on the 1841 census are also 1816 born now they have an Eliza Armstron b 1839 with them but in 1851 they have an Eliza Cadman who is 16 so was this Eliz Armstrong with the wrong age recorded i rather think so there is a big gap to the next child aged 7 What do you think?
I still think Thomas 1823 can't belong to the Robert and Caroline
Where have you found him?
Trees
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I keep finding several Thomases about 1823 but not to a Robert/Caroline
in Dawley one to James and Mary
in Sedgley one to John and Mary(1821) another in Dawley to Thomas /Martha (1822)
Help where was he hidding
Poor Rosanna was left with a young family when her Thomas diedwasn't she he died March qtr 1860 have you got that death certificate or their marriage certificate is that where you found his age and father's name?
Trees ???
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Hiya both
Very strangely I have Cadmans in my other halfs tree who came from Wombridge and some who ended up in Sedgley
There is a Thomas b 1820 Sedgley to a William and Tamar but as far as I have been able to find he married an Ann Tinsley and died 1883 in Dudley
If you want have a look at my tree and see if there are any names you recognise http://hiltonfamilytree.tribalpages.com/
Willow x
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Hi Willow this is amazing but I can't find one connection among your hundreds and yet the area is spot on
My basic descendant list is
Robert CADMAN/Mary Cooper m 1797 Snifnal ch all Wombridge
William 1789 Hannah 1799 Thomas 1802 m Ann could be Ann LEEk but they have two ch before the m date Simeon 1804 m Rebecca Armstrong b 1808 Dawley Magna daur Thomas/Ann she had a sister Caroline 1810 these were the ones at the Rose & Crown Cannon St James 1806
Simeon's ch Joseph 1829 W'hampton Mary Ann 1829 Bilston Harriett 1830 m John BOWDLERSarah 1835 W'hampton, Joseph 1837 Bilston,John 1839 Bilston,William 1841 Bilston Robert 1843 W'hampton
Lourdes has a Robert m to a Caroline ARMSTRONG at the top of her tree but my Caroline b 1810 seems unlikely to be parents of her next generation Thomas b 1823
Thomas m Rosanna etc as she has out lined in Saturday's post
Trees
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Hi trees and willow
This is really amazing yes ! I have looked at your tree willow I hope you don`t mind ...out of all those hundreds..all in the same area and yet not one of mine is there ! How incredible is that.
I have just received your emila too `trees` and will get back to you asap.
Thankyou both so much for all this, I am hopeful we can unravel this.
thanks x
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Hey Willow Look I have Mary COOPER at the top m Robert CADMAN in SHNIFNAL 1797 and you have James CADMAN m Sarah COOPER in SHIFNAL 1820 I wonder is there a tie up there?
Hi lourdes hope you can make head or tail of the charts I have sent
I'm getting worried as son is not back yet and has had a very full long day and it is now raining hard
Trees
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Hiya Trees and Lourdes
How very very strange! There must be a connection somewhere otherwise its a very bizarre coincidence that a family with the same surname should move from Wombridge to Sedgely
I will have another look tonight as I know there is a few of the family I couldnt pin down
I also have Glovers in my tree but they came from Staffordshire
Willow x
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Willow I am sure we are going to find that your James and my Robert were brothers or at least cousins.
Robert m Mary Cooper 14 Aug 1797 Shifnal but had all their children in Wombridge so I think he must have been from Wombridge and she from Shifnal he must have been b before 1779 and your James was 1760 ish.
I am wondering if Lourdes' Thomas 1823 was in fact one of yours you have four between 1820 -1823 but you have accounted for all yours and Lourdes' Thomas 1823 does m Rosanna Mar qtr 1846 at the time she was the widow GLOVER. I can't find them 1851 ???
I think the Robert and Caroline are a bit of a red herring as they don't marry until 1836 and appear to be both born 1816 from censuses. I am not even sure that its the same Caroline Armstrong but I cant find another either.
Trees really puzzled with this one
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Trying to make some sense of this
Robert at the top of my tree must have been b about 1775 ish he married 1797
The only one I can find is 1773 son of Francis and Elizabeth but I had him as the one who married Sarah? and had 9 children bap in Wombridge 1797-1812 his second son was a Francis 1800 his last child was a Robert 1812 who would be a good choice to m Caroline Armstrong b 1810 but they are on censuses as b 1816 Aggh
Anyway my Robert didn't have a Francis or Elizabeth, mind he didn't have a Robert or Mary either which seems strange so who was he.
There was a Robert to Robert / Sarah 1760 and a Robert to George /Jane 1765 none of these names feature in Robert and Mary's family
so who was he?
Trees
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Help Willow I have hit a problem wth one of your Thomases
RG9 2042 fo 109 p 4
Thomas 1819 Sedgley
Ann 1822 Sedgley
Elias 1847 Tipton
Mary 1773 Mother Sedgley
I can only see one Elias and you have him grandson of Tamar not Mary so where does that lead us?
Trees
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Hiya Trees
Tamar died 1854 and I took it William remarried (I havent found it yet though) a Mary. Thomas is either her stepson or its Anns mother
Or there again I could be completly wrong!
Willow x
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Nope Anns parents were Eger (sic) and Sarah
Willow x
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Sorry to have stirred that one up there must be a simple explanation perhaps they just refered to her as mother you know like some of the old shop keepers called all old ladies "mother"
Trees
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That could be it
I think I have found another child of Thomas and Rosanna on FreeREG
Robert bap 3.11.1850 High Street Primitive Bilston Thomas was a miner
Willow x
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I think I might have found Thomas and Rosanna in 1851 she is down as Ann
HO107/2021 Folio 734 Page 28
Willow x
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Good work Willow Rosanna..Anna ...Ann yes that makes good sense to me but who was Thomas? This time he is born simply Salop But what happened to baby Robert?
Trees
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Hiya Trees
I'm guessing he died there are deaths for a Robert Cadman in 1853 and 1854 in Wolverhampton but unfortunately they dont give ages
Willow x
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Hi Willow and Trees
wow this is a puzzle the more I look the less I seem to know !!
However just reading your posts I can tell you yes Rosanna did seem to be recorded under different versions of her name on census records and also on IGI.
There is also a Robert born to Thomas and `Hannah` Cadman 1850 Bilston so that must be the one corresponding to the Christening you found willow!
Perhaps I need to send for one of those death records you found and try to verify it one way or another ? do you think?
I keep looking at this and also at the names of each generation and there is a definate pattern especially with Emma ( even Robert /Caroline, Thomas/Rosanna, and their daughter Sarah Jane/George Harley) all had an Emma...so simple as I am I thought maybe the Mother of Robert/Caroline was an Emma (wife of Robert snr)
I am really thinking that rather than being the son of Robert and Caroline, my Thomas was a brother of Robert !!! although at present I have nothing to prove this .
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Hiya Lourdes
Yes there does seem to be a repeating of names its just tying them up to the right ones lol
I'm wondering also if the Robert Cadman listed as lodger is his brother - or he could be a cousin
Have you got the marriage certificate of Thomas and Rosanna? that will confirm his fathers name though if his occupation was 'miner' that will not give us any clues lol
Willow x
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Hi both
From the Midland BDM site http://www.bmsgh.org/cgi/marrind.cgi
the marriage for Thomas and Rosanna took place in All Saints Sedgley and from the Free BMD site it was march qtr 1846 so I have asked on the Worcester board if anyone can check the entry for his fathers name Aghhr it should have been the Stafford board I'll go and change it
Trees
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Hi both
Can`t thank you enough for all your hard work. will check in later. have e-mailed trees ok
love catherine x
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Hi WILLOW AND TREES
The father of Thomas on his marriage cert. is Robert,and yes he`s a miner !! not much help is it? thats where I got the info and have been trying to find him ever since. I thought I had but now after going through it all with you two I realise who I thought (or rather had been told,by someone related to us through Thomas`s daughter,Sarah ) was Thomas`s father can`t be can it, the ages don`t tally at all.
I should have checked the information more carefully,but thought as she was more experienced and had been researching a lot longer than I, that what she had given was correct.
I don`t know how else to proceed now as I have nothing to go on to determine which Robert it is ?
...well I only wanted some information on Cannon Street when I started this conversation with you and its opened up a whole can of worms.Lol... Its probably the best thing I`ve done for a long time because now I know that the info is wrong,and its no use at all having people on my tree who don`t belong there!!
speak to you soon and hopefully I may find something to assist in the search.
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Lourdes don't give up we will find them eventually its just going to take a bit of time and patience We will go back to Dudley and Shrewsbury some time and they be on the to do list meanwhile we could try the Shropshire board to see if any Roberts were left off the IGI transcripts... not unknown I have found several omissions from parishes they are supposed to have covered. I just feel it strange that my Robert did not have a Robert and who knows if he did have one it could be Thomas' dad.
TREES
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Hi Trees
Just to let you know that today one of my relatives ,my aunt, has told me that My grt aunt Georgina (Caroline Cadman`s sister) was also the proprietor of the Rose and Crown in Cannon Street with her husband - I will be finding out who he was asap-thats my job for today! although it was in the early 1900`s.
be back in touch when /if I get any more info for you
x
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Oh my goodness so Thomas and Rossanna had Caroline who m Alfred Nicholas and Georgina did she m George Caine? and they went on to keep the pub kept by my Cadmans back in 1851 i'll pop a post on the Midland Pub site and see if anyone can enlighten us as to when they were in the pub Meanwhile they must relate and the Caroline Armstrong must also feature we 'll keep at it Interesting addition Lourdes well done
Trees
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Hi trees
it was thomas and rosanna`s grandaughter,Georgina (her parents were Thomas Cadman and Mary Ann Evans). I am trying to find her marriage details and will be back in touch soon.
lourdes01
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Hi Trees
ok Georgina Cadman b.1889 married George Caine 1914 wolverhampton 6b 1265. I don`t have her birth or marriage certs yet though., ( although I am assured this is her)
I have her on 1901 census with her parents and sister in back matthew street,wolverhampton.
Living next door is Harry Blower head age 24, and Harriet Poutney age 27 housekeeper.
lourdes01
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Hi Trees
I have the marriage certificate for Georgina and George Caine now.19th 0ct 1914 register office,Wolverhampton.
George was in the 7th South Staffs Regiment,stationed at Belton Park Camp,Grantham....his father was George Caine (desceased) occ. Iron Galvanizer.
Georginas address is given as 10 house 6 court,Swan Street,Wolverhampton. Father: Thomas Cadman occ.General Labourer.
I also found a birth certificate for a child born to her before she was married, George William Cadman b.1908.
So are these connected to you?
These are the couple who I was told had the rose and crown. I have no evidence of that as yet.
However just to confuse matters further,My uncle believes the pub they had was called the swan !!!
will check in with you later I just need to clarify a couple of things which have come to mind
lourdes
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Hi Lourdes still can't link them in I asked about the Rose and Crown on the Midland pubs site without success I'll try their web master again and see if he knows the Swan We must get a break through some how
Trees
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Hiya Lourdes and Trees
In a book I have there were several Swan pubs in Wolverhampton
The Swan with Two Necks in Pool Street
The Little Swan in Horseley Fields/Pipers Row (it had two entrances) http://shireweb.net/wolverhamptonbak/picturesview.php?ID=146
The Swan Inn in Lower Street Tettenhall
I'm pretty sure there was a Black Swan too in Horseley Fields (Someone will soon tell me if I'm wrong)
Willow x
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:)Hi Willow
thankyou. Thats very helpful and another route for research.The picture you gave the link for is excellent.
thanks again,lourdesx
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Just a thought Do they appear on a census at the pub or are they listed on baptisms as publicans that could give a clue as to which part of town they were in
Trees
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Hi Trees
Thats so uncanny!...my train of thoughts too.
I have just been thinking that I need to pinpoint where they lived somehow but its too late for any census records. I hadn`t thought about bapism records,so I will have to try to get the details and check it out from there.
thankyou
lourdes
ps. on the 1911 census Georgina is still living with her parents at 10 court 6 Swan St. Wolverhampton. ( she has a son age 3, and she didn`t marry George Caine till 1914)
They went on to have 2 more sons,so its these I will try to get baptism info of.
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Heres a couple of links to old Wolverhampton photos as well. I'm at work at the moment so haven't had chance to see whats on there
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/photos.htm
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/DavidClare/David1.htm
Here are some of the names of pubs that have closed http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/closedpubs.htm
I'll keep my eyes open for anything else
Willow x
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Hi willow and trees
I just want to say a big thankyou, I can`t believe how very helpful you have been,I am so touched.
regards lourdes
I will take a look at those links,willow, thankyou.
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Do you think there is a clue in the Swan Street address or is that why your Uncle thought they kept The Swan rather than The Rose & Crown Iwish we had an easy way to find the licences for the pubs I have not had any luck with this pub on the other site. WWill keep looking though
trees
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Hi Trees
I think its a possibility that he may have got his memories `mixed` with the address, yes. It`s always difficult when you just keep getting little snippets of info, and very often they come up when you are talking to them about something else entirely!! But they say nothing worthwhile is ever easy...
best wishes,lourdes x
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Hi my name is colin riddell
sarah cadman was my great great grandmother and married in 1859 in southwark cathederal to john riddell
Sarah Cadman
Birth: 1832 Wolverhampton, England, United Kingdom
Death: 20 Feb 1910 8 Vincent Street Mt Lawley WA
,is she one of your cadmans ?
or have you come across her in your searches ? (http://) cheers colin
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I'm pretty sure there was a Black Swan too in Horseley Fields (Someone will soon tell me if I'm wrong)
Willow x
Hi Willow, this is an old thread that you've probably forgotten about but it seems to have been resurrected.
Just wanted to say that I think the pub you were thinking of was the Swan Garden in Horseley Fields. I used to live in the area :)
Jool
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hello Colin I can't find a Sarah born 1832 in my data but will look again the nearest so far is one born 1835 but she died in 1837 i'll have another look later
:) Trees
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I'm pretty sure there was a Black Swan too in Horseley Fields (Someone will soon tell me if I'm wrong)
Willow x
Hi Willow, this is an old thread that you've probably forgotten about but it seems to have been resurrected.
Just wanted to say that I think the pub you were thinking of was the Swan Garden in Horseley Fields. I used to live in the area :)
Jool
Was that the one with the carved swan above the door?
Willow x
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I'm pretty sure there was a Black Swan too in Horseley Fields (Someone will soon tell me if I'm wrong)
Willow x
Hi Willow, this is an old thread that you've probably forgotten about but it seems to have been resurrected.
Just wanted to say that I think the pub you were thinking of was the Swan Garden in Horseley Fields. I used to live in the area :)
Jool
Was that the one with the carved swan above the door?
Willow x
Not sure about the carved Swan, I'll ask my dad, he usually remembers things when it comes to pubs ;D
I remember it being on the left hand side as you come down Horseley Fields from W-ton, near the junction with Lower Walsall Street but not as far as the Malt Shovel.
Jool