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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Completed Requests => Topic started by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:25 GMT (UK)
This is the marriage cert of Walter JONES to Elizabeth GRIFFITHS. It took place in Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire. The usual civil parish for the area is Llanfihangel Abercowin.

I can't read where their residences were... Was hoping someone might be able to help...

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/Bindi17/RSCN1840.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2/Bindi17/RSCN1839.jpg)

? Llanfihangel ? Llanwinio...
It looks like Cefnyshendre or something, but I can't find that on a modern map, will look on Google...
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: genjen on Monday 10 November 08 15:27 GMT (UK)
First one -Cefn Yr Hendre? Llanfihangel?

Jen
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:34 GMT (UK)
I couldn't find that as a town so I ran it through a welsh translator. Should have known better...

"Back He Drives great-grandfather"
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: genjen on Monday 10 November 08 15:37 GMT (UK)
we just crossed in the post - did you see that I have modified my original reply - found a parish map on Genuki ( Carmarthen).

Jen
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Monday 10 November 08 15:38 GMT (UK)
 Hi  :)

Hendre means winter dwellling and Cefn  is usually  back, rear or ridge

So take your pick


Gadget
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:39 GMT (UK)
So probably the house name then?

Thanks both
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: genjen on Monday 10 November 08 15:41 GMT (UK)
The second one - bottom line looks like Llanwinio. Not sure about the first bit though.

Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Monday 10 November 08 15:43 GMT (UK)
The first bit of the second looks like  T'yn y  Nwnr . I'm not too confident of the Nwnr bit though - not heard of that as a Welsh word. First part is House in the
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:46 GMT (UK)
That's further than I got with that word, Gadget! Thanks :)

Definitely Llanwinio, thanks Jenjen :D
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Monday 10 November 08 15:49 GMT (UK)
Could it be Nevin  :-\

Added - no I don't think so   :(
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Monday 10 November 08 15:53 GMT (UK)
Ha ha, your guess is better than mine! I haven't the foggiest. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Monday 10 November 08 16:11 GMT (UK)
I'm now having doubts about the T - it might even be Ffoty or something like that  :-\

Ok - I give up on that one. I  think that maybe a look through the cenus pages for Llanwinio  might be the best way forward with it.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Monday 10 November 08 16:15 GMT (UK)


Ffynnonwen   - looks the most likely from the 1871  - District 24.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Aussie Roy on Tuesday 11 November 08 10:56 GMT (UK)
just a try   Jones  Theophilus  82 Father Retired Farmer Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire  Pincraigishaf, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire HO107/2474/~F339 CD6 HO_2474c.pdf p.67           
  Jones  William  45 Head Farmer Of 126 Acres Employing 2 Labourer Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire  Pincraigishaf, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire HO107/2474/~F339 CD6 HO_2474c.pdf p.67           
  Jones  Sarah  24 Wife  Treleach, Carmarthenshire  Pincraigishaf, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire HO107/2474/~F339 CD6 HO_2474c.pdf p.67           
  Jones  Rachel  21 Servant House Servant Llanfyrnach, Pembrokeshire  Pincraigishaf, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire HO107/2474/~F339 CD6 HO_2474c.pdf p.67           
  Jones  Theophilus  1 Son  Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire  Pincraigishaf, Llanwinio, Carmarthenshire HO107/2474/~F339 CD6 HO_2474c.pdf p.67         
Roy
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 12 November 08 14:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks Roy. Which census is that?

Thanks Gadget. I'm not sure I can see that one myself, but I value the options  :)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 12 November 08 19:48 GMT (UK)
I was wondering about Ffos y something for the Llanwinio address and I found in 1851
Fosyfwrn HO107/2474 folio 363 pg 10
Joseph Williams 76 widower famer of 10 acres b. Llanginning
Mary Griffiths 28 house servant b. Llanboidy

farm name spelt Ffosyffwrn in 1841.

 :-\

Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 12 November 08 20:13 GMT (UK)
That looks the best one yet, osprey  :)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 12 November 08 22:05 GMT (UK)
just thought to search by address on the 1881 and living in Ffosyffwrn was none other than James Griffiths b. Mydrim formerly carpenter.
RG11/5401 folio 111 pg 8

His address in 1851 was Vrondeg in Llanwinio HO107/2474 folio 364 pg 13 and he'd moved to Ffosyffwrn by 1861 RG9/4145 folio 83 pg 8. Does that fit with the date of the marriage?

   ;)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Friday 14 November 08 14:37 GMT (UK)
Date of marriage was 1861, I think :) I hadn't found James Griffiths on census, so I'm glad someone else did! I'll have to look up that census and see for myself. Thanks so much :)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Saturday 04 December 10 00:08 GMT (UK)
confused,
 i have james griffiths b.1853 llanwinio and wife catherine living at pantycoed, llanwinio in the 81 census, also residing there is his mother amy b.1812. james recorded as a farmer of  3 acres and a carpenter, pantycoed having been the family home since at least 1841.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Saturday 04 December 10 15:36 GMT (UK)
It's possible that there is more than one place. After all, welsh place names tended to be along the lines of a description rather than a house name "the house by the river" "the house on the hill" so it wouldn't surprise me if we are talking about two different places with coincidentally the same family surname, which, being Griffiths in Wales, isn't terribly unlikely :)

My James was born 1801-1805, Mydrim, first wife Mary LEWIS 1802, Llanwinio, second wife Jane JAMES 1832, Llanwinio.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Morganllan on Sunday 05 December 10 01:13 GMT (UK)
i have james griffiths b.1853 llanwinio and wife catherine living at pantycoed, llanwinio in the 81 census, also residing there is his mother amy b.1812. james recorded as a farmer of  3 acres and a carpenter, pantycoed having been the family home since at least 1841.

Have you seen the photo of the grave of Elizabeth, daughter of William and Amy?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0an0/
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 13:26 GMT (UK)
very difficult to read, can see that she is the daughter of william and amy griffiths of pant y coed, llanwinio - which is the address i have for the family, looks like elisabeth died 27 apr 1832 or 1839 2yrs old ?? where is the grave ?
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 14:06 GMT (UK)
ref the 1881 census that osprey refers to above, just had a look at it, the address is def ffosyffwrn,
ffos - ditch/moat/trench.  y - the.  ffwrn - oven. the occupant is james griffiths b. 1802 former carpenter, this is not the family i have followed, although this james b.1802 may well be a brother of the william griffiths b.1809 carpenter of pantycoed, b. at mydrim who married amy which i followed.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 14:15 GMT (UK)
dont think ffosyffwrn exists anymore but the next but one property on the 81 census caerlleon does, its approx 2 miles south of llanwinio. u should find it on google maps
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Sunday 05 December 10 17:36 GMT (UK)
I suspected my James may have been illegitimate. His marriage (1870) gives father as William Griffiths, carpenter, and the only baptism I've found thus far is for a possible illegitimate child between William Griffiths and Hester Evans (or at least, the entry seemed to indicate that the child was illegitimate).

Could well be a possibility though, since you say he was born Mydrim, moved to Llanwinio and was a carpenter...

It's just annoying that it's this far back since its harder to link up...
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 17:46 GMT (UK)
when and where was your james griffiths born
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Sunday 05 December 10 18:11 GMT (UK)
Possibly 1802, Mydrim, the baptism is 1805, but can't prove it's his.

1841- born and living Mydrim with wife Mary [LEWIS] and children (Easter, Hannah, Phebe, Amy, John), dob 1806

1851- born Mydrim, living Llanwinio with wife Mary and children (Amy and John), dob 1802

1861- born Mydrim, living Llanwinio with wife Mary, child Amy and grandchild Amy JAMES, dob 1802

1871- born Mydrim, living Llanwinio with wife Jane [JAMES], dob 1802

1881- born Mydrim, living Llanwinio with wife Jane and children Jane and James, dob 1802.

1891- born Mydrim,  living Llanwinio, widower, with stepdaughter Hannah JAMES, son James, dob 1800, imbicile.

Died 1895, aged 94 (1801)
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 18:18 GMT (UK)
going by the names in your line and the names in mine its very probable that they are connected, as i prviously indicated i think that your james b.1882 and my william b.1809 may well have been brothers.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Ayashi on Sunday 05 December 10 18:24 GMT (UK)
:)

Unfortunately this far back, proving it is more of a problem. Jiminwales did try to look up baptisms in this line at Carmarthen Records Office and couldn't find a trace of them, not even the possible one for James I found online. I'm not sure where to look next.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: richenry on Sunday 05 December 10 18:40 GMT (UK)
probably church and chapel parish records, but which ones ??? thats the problem. anyway good luck, if i make any progress will get back in touch.
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Morganllan on Sunday 05 December 10 22:01 GMT (UK)
very difficult to read, can see that she is the daughter of william and amy griffiths of pant y coed, llanwinio - which is the address i have for the family, looks like elisabeth died 27 apr 1832 or 1839 2yrs old ?? where is the grave ?

It's near Gelliwen. SN267235. The remains of Pantycoed are located on the northern side of the forestry haulage track. The gravestone is resting against a tree at the rear of the former property.

I think it's 1839 age 2 but somone has amended to 12 (probably because there was an Elisabeth aged 11 at Pantycoed in 1851). The story is that the child had to be buried in the garden due to prolonged bad winter weather.

There is a death of Elizabeth Griffiths in 1839 (Jun Q)
Carmarthen volume 26 page361

Perhaps there were 2 Elisabeths?  :-\
Title: Re: Can't read the handwriting yet again...
Post by: Morganllan on Tuesday 07 December 10 02:08 GMT (UK)
Just checked with someone who's been there recently and I'm told the date close up is 27 April 1852 aged 2. The poem on the gravestone refers to a sick infant. possibly it was a mistake by the stonemason and the stone was rejected. A former Gelliwen resident said that Elisabeth was interred at Rhydyceisiad Chapel near Llangynin.

However I cannot find a death notice in 1852 Jun Q in Carmarthen district, only Newcastle Emlyn.  :-\

modified - the date is not 1852 but probably 1839.