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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 09 November 08 18:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I originally put this in the Bilston friends and neighbours thread [http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=280912.msg2191143] but then realised it would probably get lost in such a long thread and is really an invitation to a new discussion.
As pretty much all the names here have come up in our discussion on that thread and other threads here, i wanted to try a new way of looking at this and see if, between us we can find waht links these families other than just location.
Going through some census sheets that I had printed out a while ago, I found an example from 1871 in Temple St, #2 court at RG10:2950:F150
On the first page of the folio (page 29) we start with:
House #1: James & Mary McKew and family - from William's baptism, I find mother was a Mary Halligan and his godmother was a Catherine McDonough (likely the first wife of Michael McDonough who appears later, as she was originally a Catherine McKew)
#2 James and Mary Oakley with family and lodgers (a tiny grand-daughter's name appears to have been amended because her parents weren't married)
#3 William Brannon, wife Mary and 3 children & William's brother. From the Holy Trinity baptismal index, I can see that William was baptised in Bilston and his mother's maiden name was Walsh. There are two sets of lodgers in the same household, a widower and daughter named Gaven and Edward Walsh and son, also Edward. The older Edward seems to be still married but wife not at home.
#4 John and Ellen Nayley? with child Hannah and widowed stepmother Hannah Durkin
#5 Stephen and Honora Coughlin and children
[added: from the baptism records for their children, it looks like Honora/Honor's maiden name was Hassett or possibly Harrett]
#6 Barney and Sarah Callaghan and lodger George Bucknall
#7 Michael and Winifred McDonough with Mary and Julia. Mary's mother was Catherine McKew. Some time after Catherine's death, Michael remarried to widow Winifred Biggins, whose maiden name was Lally. Winifred is Julia's mother.
With them are lodgers John Murphy and Mary with daughter Bridget. According to FREEBMD a John Murphy may have married a Mary Clynes in this region in 1867. [this McDonough family is strongly suspected to closely related to my ancestors and there is a John Clynes who is godparent to one of the children in my family]
#8 Thomas and Ann Evans and two children
Court #2 seems to be between houses 50 and 51 on Temple Street itself and at 51 and 52 are more Halligan and Lally families.
Many of these names have come up in our discussions so I would love comments and feedback - particularly from descendants of these families.
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The same court ten years later
(this is partly done from transcriptions as I only have one of the relevant pages so if anyone wants to correct anything, I will be very grateful)
Starting at RG11:2813:F144:P27- F145:P29
At house #1 is still James and Mary and the younger children (but now they are spelled McKue on A**- also found elsewhere McCue and McHugh)
#2 Still the Oakleys but no children or lodgers
#3 Henry and Mary Jones with children and Thompson step-children
#4 Thomas and Rebecca Newton
#5 John and Onour Allen with daughter and Higgins step-children
#6 Thomas and Bridget O'Neill with children and Coyne step-children.
[From the children's baptism records, Bridget's name was originally McDonough and she was previously married to a John Coyne]
#7 is now Patrick and Catherine Conroy with baby Mary.
[from Mary's baptism, Catherine's maiden name was Corcoran]
#8 is John and Julia Coyne with children and sister, Ellen Burke
[from the children's baptisms, Julia was originally Burke]
There is a Thomas Evans lodging next door at #51 Temple St but he is 70 and so far too old to be the Thomas at #8 court 2, 10 years earlier.
Again, if anyone can add any information on any of these families, I would love to hear from you.
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Hello there ,could you tell me please ,how i would view Holy Trinity baptism records ?
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Hi ponjalow,
The baptism records for Holy Trinity up to the 1890s are held at the Birmingham Archdiocesan Archives at St Chad's in Birmingham, although you would normally just view them on microfilm there.
If you want to give me some names with approximate dates, I can see if the records you need are on any of the images I have for my own research, over the next couple of days. Also I am in the process of transcribing the index to the baptismal registers but have only got as far as "C" so far but can do lookups in that if you have any names early in the alphabet.
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Thank you for quick reply. Kilgallon and Duffy family ,
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Hi Sheila.
You are already aware of my interest in the Walsh family and the connection to the Graven family.
I noted the Walsh and Gaven's in your topic. Do you have their birthplace details please?
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Hi ponjalow
I noticed a Catharine Killgallon married a William Devanny 1n 1857. Ref Wolverhampton 6b 767.
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Hi emgee
I dont think so .The name Devanny doesnt appear any where.
Do you happen to know Catherine Kilgallon's (b 1882 ) Mother 's name ?
Thank you.
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Sorry ponjalow but I have only limited resources.
I presume your Catherine is the one registered Mar qtr 1883 Wolverhampton 6b 670.
If so a Birth Certificate from GRO will give you the mothers maiden name.
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There's also an Elizabeth Roberts, born 15/2/1905 and baptised at Holy Trinity 5/3/1905, daughter of Edward Roberts and Mary/Maria? Kilgallon.
about a month later an Ann/Anne/Anna/Hannah/Nancy? Kilgallon was godmother to a child whose family name was Christopher.
can't find any Duffys as yet but still haven't completed the "C"s so may be some soon. It could be quite a while until I get as far as "K". Sorry.
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Sorry emgee,
Brannon, Walsh and Gavan adults just give "Ireland" as their place of origin.
Brannon children were born Bilston. Walsh and Gavan children born Wolverhampton.
In 1861, there is an Edward Walsh, not the right age but living in the same court and with brother Michael and sister Ann, they are living with their sister Mary O'Brien, who is married. Again all the adults just from Ireland in general.
and in 1971, at house 1, 4 court, Oxford Street there are a Catherine Walsh from Ireland, age 52, with daughter and son, born in Bilston, Eileen, 17 and Michael, 13.
Sheila
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Thanks Sheila
The 1871 Census family is mine.
You gave me vol and page no for Michael's Birth but his mothers maiden name is wrong - see my other thread. .
(GRO believe that given so many other details tie up that it must be a correct Cert. and the name misheard or the mother misunderstood and gave her mother's maiden name!!)
Did you give me sister Ellen's vol and page no.? She was born 31 May 1854 and baptised Helena. I can't seem to find it.
Thanks again.
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Hi Emgee,
Sorry, I don't recollect it but the only place I would get GRO reference numbers from is FREEBMD, and can't find Ellen/Helen etc. on there.
If you got the certificate from GRO, have you tried calling the local registry and explaining the problem? It maybe that it was wrongly transcribed when it was sent to GRO so you could ask them to check the original register.
I usually use FREEBMD to locate the most likley record then apply to the local Register Office and give them all the details I can find. Wolverhampton have been very good and have even called me in the past to check or to tell me that they were forwarding the request to another Office as it was not one of theirs (a child born over the border from Bilston in Sedgley, hence Dudley Record Office).
Sheila
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Hi There,
Mary ,Anne ,Ellen were sister's to Catherine also a brother Patrick.
I would like to know how to find their baptism dates.also what school they attended
Their Parent's were Mary( nee Casey)and Peter Kilgallon.
Thanking you.
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Ok, the only additional information that I have at present is that:
1st March 1891
a Mary Kilgallon was confirmed at Holy Trinity with the name of Elizabeth
15th July 1900
an Ellen Kilgallon was confirmed at Holy Trinity with the name of Elizabeth
12th May 1912
a Patrick Kilgallon was confirmed at Holy Trinity with the name of John
In each case the Bishop was the Rev. Dr Ilsley, Bishop of Birmingham
On both occasions, the sponsor for the girls was Miss Agnes Mottram (a teacher at Holy Trinity School and distantly related to me (by marriage)) and the sponsor for the boys on the last occasion was a Mr Walker.
There were no confirmations listed for Holy Trinity between 1900 and 1912 so it may be that confirmation for those years took place centrally at St Chad's Cathedral?
If this is your family, as they were catholics, they would probably have been baptised and attended school at Holy Trinity. As I said earlier, it could be sometime before I get as far as "K" with the baptism index so the only way to check this before then would be at the Archdiocesan Archives at St Chad's in Birmingham, where you can read the index and the baptismal records on microfilm.
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Thank you so much .
That is fantastic.
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Thanks Sheila
I'll be 'phoning Wolverhampton office tomorrow.
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Hi ponjalow.
By chance I noticed a John Duffy aged 21 puddler of iron in the 1861 Census.
He was at Castle Street Bilston lodging with the Cartwright family.
James Cartwright 36 puddler of iron
wife Mary 34
Richard 5
Jeremiah 3
Mary Ann 1
lodger John Connery? 16 apprentice
All were born Bilston
Sheila,
I also noticed a John Donaugh from Roscmmon lodging at 1 Griffiths Building Mill Lane with Michael Horn? and family (page 11)
Hope this helps.
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Hello Emgee,
Thank you for that,
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Has anyone any thing on No 4 Court please.
Also The Christopher family .
Thanks.
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Would there be any Hales families there?
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Hi ponjalow and steve 100
in the 1881 Census I noticed;
Michael Christophers 39
Margaret Christophers 40
Mary F. Christophers 19
Charles Christophers 17
Patrick Christophers 15
James Christophers 12
Catherine Christophers 10
Thomas Christophers 8
Margaret Christophers 5
Anne Christophers 1 at 31 Temple Street Bilston
Joseph Hales 47
Ann Hales 47
George Hales 26
Joseph Hales 18
Mary Hales 10 in Quarry Street Bilston
the 1881 Census is free to view on variou internet sites and will give you further details
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and Steve100
the Post Office Directory of Birmingham, Staffordshire & Worcestershire, 1850
Lists a Denis Hale - Shopkeeper in Oxford Street
see here
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/pageviewer.asp?fn=0000aoaj.tif&dn=WVA16003tif&zoom=s
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Emgee thanks for that. Hale in your second post is not my family,but thank you again.
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Also The Christopher family .
Thanks.
Hi ponjalow,
are any or all of these your Christopher family?
Family Name First Name(s) Date of Baptism Father's First Name(s) Mother's First Name(s) Mother's Maiden Name
Christopher Margaret 19 March 1876 Michael Margaret Burk
Christopher Thomas 10 November 1872 Michael Margaret Burke
Christopher Anne 18 January 1880 Michael Margaret Burke
Christopher Ja.s. Ernest 06 January 1895 Charles Sarah Anne Coyne
Christopher James Pat.k. 18 October 1903 Patrick Bridget Hannon
Christopher Alfred Vincent 23 April 1905 Patrick Bridget Hannon
Christopher Francis Leslie 05 July 1907 Patrick Bridget Hannon
Christopher Mary Teresa 22 February 1891 Charles Sarah Kilcoyne
Christopher Sarah Anne 01 May 1892 Charles Sarah Anne Kilcoyne
Christopher John Tho.s. 24 December 1893 Charles Sarah Ann Kilcoyne
Christopher Michael 11 October 1896 Charles Sarah Anne Kilcoyne
Christopher Marg.t. Helen 28 September 1902 Charles Sarah Anne Kilcoyne
Christopher Margaret 24 January 1904 Charles Sarah Anne Kilcoyne
Christopher Thomas 04 March 1900 Thomas Helen McElroy
sorry about the formatting!
They are from the Holy Trinity Church baptismal index.
I can now search up to the end of letter "C" but a few entries are incomplete at the moment, as the copies that I have were not clear enough to read. I'll recheck on my next visit to the archives.
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Just spotted another one of the above family:
Mother's Maiden Name Mother's First Name(s) Date of Baptism Family Name First Name(s) Father's First Name(s)
Christopher Catharine 17 April 1898 Bray Jane William
Christopher Catharine 30 September 1909 Bray Clara William H.y.
Note that the column headings are in a different order (this only worked because she married someone whose surname was before "C" so there may be more when the rest of the database has been transcribed).
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The same court ten years later
(this is partly done from transcriptions as I only have one of the relevant pages so if anyone wants to correct anything, I will be very grateful)
#6 Thomas and Bridget O'Neill with children and Coyne step-children.
[From the children's baptism records, Bridget's name was originally McDonough and she was previously married to a John Coyne]
#8 is John and Julia Coyne with children and sister, Ellen Burke
[from the children's baptisms, Julia was originally Burke]
hi
Ive just started researching my mothers side of the family and came across this today, john and Julia coyne are my g g grandparents. what i know at the moment is limited and tracing Irish ancestry is proving to be much more difficult.
john coyne was born 1846-7 and the first time i find him in a census is 1871,single, living at 52 temple street as 1 of 3 lodgers with the lalley family .my grandad believes john came over from westport county mayo ireland. i cannot find any evidence of this so far (his birth place being listed as ireland on the census). he married Julia Burke in 1872. the Burke family lived on oxford street but came from co mayo ireland too. john is a consistant name within the generations of male coynes, both my grandad and g grandfather have this name so i would be interested if you have any information on the the john coyne that was married to the Bridget mcdonough?
thanks
lee
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Hi Sheila,
Going back to your initial post in this thread; what were the Christian names of the Widower and daughter Gaven in Court 2 Temple Street. 1971.
Thanks.
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Hi probert282 and emgee,
sorry I couldn't read your messages earlier as Rootschat sopped working for me.
probert282 welcome to Rootschat. I do have more information for you on the Coyne family but it would be easier to send baptism details by PM after you have posted another couple of messages to unlock the system fo you (don't need to say anything much, just a quick reply).
In the meantime, I can tell you that there is at least one definite link between the Lalley and McDonough families as a Michael McDonough who I suspect, but can't yet prove, is closely related to my McDonoughs (the brother of my great-grandfather?) married a Winifred Lalley. It was the second marriage for both of them. They were in Court 2 in 1871.
And hi again emgee. The lodgers with the Brannan family in Court 2 were Patrick, a widowed furnace labourer born in Ireland about 1836, and his daughter Catherine, born in Wolverhampton about 1862. The name was spelt Gavan in this case but some of the church records have it one way and some the other too.
Sheila
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Thanks for the quick response, Shelia.
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that would great thankyou, i'll shall get posting then.
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Hi everyone
My ancestor Bridget Kilgallon was born in Sligo/Mayo and came to live in Temple Street, Bilston!!! Could we be related??? She married John Banks and had a few children but the names Catherine, Martin and Thomas spring to mind. I am the relation of Thomas .
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Hi everyone My ancestor Bridget Kilgallon was born in Sligo/Mayo and came to live in Temple Street, Bilston and she was married to John Banks. They had a few children but springing to mind are the names Martin, Catherine and Thomas. Any one related?
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