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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: DelvaP on Sunday 09 November 08 14:27 GMT (UK)
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Could someone help please.
Is there a way of determing whether ANDREW MCLUCKIE (bap 13.4.1740)who had children by ELIZABETH STEWART (cannot find a marraige cert)
children:
John bap 21.2.1762
Jannet bap 1.9.1764
Elizabeth bap 13.3.1766
William bap 4.5.1768
Thomas bap Dec 1770
Andrew bap 4.4.1773
George bap 28.1.1776
All children were baptised as McLuckie. Have checked LDS Stirling and no marriage cert. - could they have been married further afield?
and CHILDREN BY JEAN MEFFIN (METHVEN) (married 23.6.1776)
John bap 2.9.1777
James bao 29.4.1781
Elizabeth 28.3.1784
Christian 18.6.1786
Robert bap 27.4.1788
William bap 14.5.1790 - left for South Africa 1817 my ancestor.
Jean bap 8.7.1792
Is this the same ANDREW? I have looked on a number of sites and I think it may be the same person. Is there anyway of checking?
Thanks for your help
Delva
Bloemfontein
South Africa.
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Delva, these are my McLean daughters' McLuckie ancestors as well.
William McLuckie born 1831 at Kippen, Stirlingshire married Philippa Ann Andrew in Ontario, Canada about 1855-1856.
His parents:
James McLuckie born 1781 and Janet Archibald born 1798
James' parents we believe were:
Andrew McLuckie & Jean Methven
James would have been a brother to your ancestor William.
Where did you find all the baptisms for children of Andrew by both wives? I did not have daughter Christian/Christine or son Robert for Andrew & Jean in my files.
Would love to correspond about these common ancestors (my daughters, not mine but important to me to work on).
Have you written to John Blair who also worked on these families?
Nora in Alberta, Canada
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Hi there Nora,
thanks for the reply!! I got most of it off LDS site (Family Search) just not sure if it is the same ANDREW though!!
My William came to South Africa in 1817 - that was before the 1820 settlers he came out with Moodie (who I believe was a Scottish minister) when he arrived he was a Cooper (barrel maker) but soon changed his trade to trading with the Blacks and he went to some places in South Africa where he was the first White man that a lot of the tribes had seen! He later owned a farm WOODLANDS in the Eastern Cape. He was very active in the wars in that area, supplying shelter on his farm for the British Settlers.
I have a (not so very good photo) of William taken in his later years will try to scan at a later stage!!
We stay in Bloemfontein, South Africa.
Once again thanks for replying will make contact again over the weekend.
Regards
Delva
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Delva,
I do not believe that ANDREW MCLUCKIE (bap 13.4.1740)who had children by ELIZABETH STEWART is the same ANDREW MCLUCKIE who married JEAN MEFFIN (METHVEN).
The ANDREW MCLUCKIE who married JEAN MEFFIN (METHVEN) is the brother of ROBERT MCLUCKIE and MARGARET MCLUCKIE. MARGARET MCLUCKIE married ROBERT BLAIR, brother of my 3xgr grandfather PETER BLAIR. This ANDREW was most likely baptised on 08 Aug 1749, in Drymen, Stirlingshire. (See below).
I have copies of letters written by ROBERT MCLUCKIE and other family members to MARGARET MCLUCKIE and ROBERT BLAIR in Barnet Vermont dating from 1786 to 1818.
These letter make reference to sibling John, Andrew, Christie, Elizabeth, Janet; the death of their father sometime shortly after March 1, 1788; the death of their mother "in the first of June 91"; and other family members.
A search of ScotlandsPeople showed a JOHN MCLUCKIE buried in Kippen Apr 05,1788 and the burial of JEAN (CHRISTIAN) GILFILLAN in Kippen June 09, 1791. This would lead me to believe that ROBERT and MARGARET's parents were JOHN MCLUCKIE and JEAN (CHRISTIAN) GILFILLAN.
OPRs and Associate Session records list the follow children of JOHN MCLUCKIE and CHRISTIAN GILFILLAN:
Janet - baptised 14 Feb 1748 in Drymen, Stirlingshire
Andrew - baptised 8 Aug 1749 in Drymen, Stirlingshire
Thomas - baptised 22 Jan 1753 in Drymen, Stirlingshire
_____ - baptised 5 Aug 1754 in Drymen, Stirlingshire
John - baptised 24 Jan 1756 in Drymen, Stirlingshire
I have not been able to connect the births of Robert, Margaret, Christie, or Elizabeth to JOHN MCLUCKIE and CHRISTIAN GILFILLAN but given the time period and the fact they were members of the Associate Session this does not surprise me. One of the four could be the unnamed child baptised 5 Aug 1754.
The letters also make several references to ROBERT and MARGARET's brother ANDREW and his family, including the fact that that ANDREW died Bet. 1802–1803 leaving 7 children: John, James, Robert, William, Jean and 2 other daughters. All five of ANDREW's children named in the letters are also children of ANDREW MCLUCKIE and JEAN MEFFIN (METHVEN). Their two addition children (Christian and Elizabeth) are almost certainly the two daughters not named in the letters.
As for your William who left for South Africa, Robert writes on 23 June 1818: "Andrews youngest son in clashhead William served his prentiship to be a couper and when he was ready with it the next trade was smugling and he was taken be the gagers two tims and he was obliged to flee for it he is away to the keep of good hope".
I hope this helps.
John
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Hi Robert
Thanks for this lovely load of information!!
I have always hoped to find a real 'naughty' ancestor and it looks like I found him!!! Although here in South Africa he was a notable man, helped for form a school for the children and grandchildren of the 1820 Settlers and like I mentioned fought in the wars of that time.
My son, Pierre, is called by his friend 'McLuckie' and when I phoned him to tell him about the smuggling he had a good old laugh!!!!
Is Kippen near Drymen? My great grandmother had written all of this information down (many moons ago!) and she stated that William had been born and raised in Kippen. On his grave it also states that he was born in Kippen. But maybe it was just folklore...who knows?
will check in on your website later.
During all my searches William is definitely the only McLuckie mentioned that arrived in South Africa at that time.
thanks so much for this info.
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Delva,
I'm glad you enjoyed the story of why William went to South Africa. It's always fun to find an ancestor with a colorful past.
Drymen is about 12 miles from Kippen. If you look on my webpage http://blairgenealogy.com/Scotland/kippen.html
you'll see a map of what I refer to as the "Kippen Circle". Kippen is the red star near the center of the map and Drymen is on the left edge of the map, about half way down. The "Kippen Circle" is an area I define as rough circle of villages and/or parishes within an approximate 10 mile radius of Kippen, Stirlingshire, Scotland. I consider any Blair who lived in the “Kippen Circle” to be a potential relative.
Keep in mind that it appears that the McLuckies and Blairs in this area were apparently members of the Associate Sessions rather than the established Church of Scotland. I'm not certain of the various Associate Session parishes of that time but most of my Blairs were baptised in the Buchlyvie Associate Session (1752 – 1785) and the Associate Session of Balfron (1750 - 1752), even though they lived in Kippen.
My family history claims than my gr-gr-grandfather and his siblings were born in Paisley, Renfrewshire when they were actually baptised in Saint Ninians and Stirling, Stirlingshire.
John
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Hi John,
I was very interested to read your reply to Delva about Andrew McLuckie.
I am researching my husbands McLuckie family and was wondering if you had any information on James McLuckie born in about 1781. The James we are trying to find married Christian Graham on the 29/7/1803 and was the father of John McLuckie born on 9/4/1816 in Kilsyth. John married Mary Neish on 4/6/1835 at Campsie.
What I am trying to prove is that the James McLuckie we have was the one born in 1781 and was he the son of Andrew McLuckie and Jean Meffin.
I am hoping you may have found some information on James that would help us solve this.
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
Pauline Mc in New Zealand
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Hi Pauline,
I'm afraid I don't have anything that would prove that James McLuckie who married Christian Graham is the same James McLuckie, baptised 29 Apr 1781, who was the son of Andrew McLuckie and Jean Methven. I did find a marriage record on ScotlandsPeople for James McLuckie and Christian Graham married on 25 Jul 1803 in Balfron, Stirlingshire, Scotland. This COULD be the same James but the record does not indicate James' parents.
I also found a marriage records for James McLuckie and Janet Archibald, on 08 and 10 Dec 1822 in St Ninians and Kippen, Stirlingshire, Scotland. This COULD also be the same James but the records do not indicate James' parents.
It's possible that either or both of these could be James McLuckie son of Andrew McLuckie and Jean Methven.
I have no information on James' children.
John
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Pauline where and when did your James McLuckie die?
My McLean daughters are direct desc.'s of the James McLuckie who married Janet Archibald.
Nora in Alberta, Canada
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Hi Nora,
Do you know if your James McLuckie who married Janet Archibald is the son Andrew McLuckie and Jean Methven? I suspect they are the same but can't find any source to prove it.
Thanks,
John
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Hi Nora,
I have not been able to find a death for either my James McLuckie or Christian (Graham) McLuckie.
I found a death for a Christian McLuckie in 1818 in Glasgow City but if I remember correctly it was for an 8 year old child.
Pauline in NZ.
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Hi John,
Thank you for your reply. I think I have gone as far as I can with my McLuckie family and will just have to be content with John's parents being James McLuckie and Christian Graham. There are two marriages for James McLuckie and Christian Graham in 1803 four days apart. Are they the same couple who married in two different places or two different couples. I guess that is something I will never find out.
Thank you again.
Pauline
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Hi Pauline,
They are the same couple. What you call marriages are actually the posting of the marriage banns (intention to marry). It was very common to see the banns recorded twice, once in the parish of the bride and once in the parish of the groom. The actual marriage would normally be a short time after the posting of the banns and is often not found in the OPRs.
The actual entry for James and Christian on 25 July 1803 in Balfron reads "McLucky James in the Parish of Old Kilpatrick, and Christian Graham in this Parish entered their names for proclamation of Banns."
I don't have the image for the the July 29, Old Kilpatrick, Dunbarton entry but I'm certain it would be similar to the one above.
The same situation exists for the marriage of James McLuckie and Janet Archibald, on 08 and 10 Dec 1822 in St Ninians and Kippen, Stirlingshire, Scotland.
John
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John I have nothing to prove that "my" James was Andrew's son, although I believe that he was, based on the location thing- he being at Kippen, while Pauline's James was at Kilsyth.
John (and his wife Janet Archibald) travelled with their children sometime between 1831 and 1836 to Canada. I expect they landed in Quebec and made their way to Ontario where they resided in Hastings County. James senior was alive for the 1851 census but I cannot find him in 1861 so suspect he died in 1851-1861 time frame.
I don't know where or when Janet died- it is possible she died in Scotland, on the boat, in Quebec, possibly in Ontario...she was not on the 1851 census and James senior was listed as a widower.
Will do some more digging this morning and see if I can find anything new.
Pauline I have names of seven children for your James and his wife Christian Graham, and their dates of birth- do you have all of that info already?
Nora in Alberta
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And message to Pauline in New Zealand- don't ever give up, even in the past two years I have found new info that I never thought I would find ten years ago. Ancestry.com is posting more and more databases, more and more old books and records are appearing online too.
You are in New Zealand, correct? Did you have McLuckie ancestors then who went to New Zealand? Can you give us a few more details about your ancestors? Maybe we can find something for you if we know more about them.
Thanks from Nora
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Hi Nora,
Finding PROOF in Scotland during this time period is very difficult. I have the OPR image for James and Janet in St Ninian and it only gives their names and the date. The OPR image for James and Christian in Balfron is just as sketchy.
When you say John and Janet went to Canada I assume you mean James and Janet. I would appriciate any information you have on James and Janet's descendants. I noticed you mentioned having the names of the children of James and Christian. I would be interested in those names too.
I have James' family (assuming he the son of Andrew and Jean Jean Methven) back to John McLuckie and Christian Gilfillan.
If this is the same James he is my nephew of wife of 3rd great grand uncle. I'm not sure how that makes us related.
John
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Hi John,
Thank you for the information about the two marriage entries for my James McLuckie and Christian Graham. I am a lot happier about that now. I did think it was to much of a coincidence for it to be two different couples.
Thanks again
Pauline
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Hi Nora,
I have these six children's births for James McLuckie and Christian Graham. I could not find the seventh so would love to have the one I am missing please.
James born 13 November 1804
Marion born 13 February 1806
Elizabeth born 5 July 1809
Alexander born 10 November 1810
Christian born 25 December 1813
John born 9 April 1816
My husband and his parents came to NZ in 1960. They were living in London before that. I have found plenty of records for his family back in Scotland as far back as the 1800's before that it has started to become very difficult with either no records or little information on the records to prove that I have the correct family. There were a lot of McLuckie's in Scotland by the 1850's. Only a few of us in NZ though.
Many thanks for your help.
Pauline Mc
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The missing child is Peter McLuckie born May 24, 1818 at Campsie, not at Kilsyth.
So your McLuckie's stayed in Scotland then- until when? when did they moved to England?
Thanks from Nora
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And John yes I did mean to say James and Janet went to Canada- silly me, here I was wondering where Janet died, and speculating it might have been in Scotland or on the boat etc. but she and James had two more children born in Ontario, Canada, so she must have died in same place.
Nora
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Hi Pauline and Nora,
Deterimining the parents of James McLuckie who married Christian Graham and James Blair who married Janet Archibald may be very difficult as their were several James McLuckies born between 1771 and 1800 in the area in question. In fact there were two James born (or baptised) in 1781. Below is a list of James McLuckies born or baptised between 1771 and 1880. Any one or two of these could the James we've been discussing.
C: 22 Dec 1771 James Alexander McLucky & Helen Cowan Larbert, Stirling
B: 6 Nov 1774 James Andrew McLuckie & Jean Buchanan Glasgow, Lanark
C: 29 Apr 1781 James Andrew McLuckie & Jean COWAN or Methvin Kippen, Stirling
C: 13 Sep 1781 James Thomas McLuckie & Mary Heggie Airth, Stirling
C: 26 Oct 1783 James James McLucky & Janet Nuckle Falkirk, Stirling
C: 20 Feb 1791 James Alexander McLucky & Helen Rankin Larbert, Stirling
B: 2 May 1791 James Thomas McLuckie & Janet Waterston Glasgow, Lanark
C: 10 Jun 1793 James William McLuckie & Margaret McAlaster Drymen, Stirling
C: 8 Mar 1795 James Colin McLuckie & Agnes Rae Polmont, Stirling
B: 10 May 1800 James Thomas McLuckie & Christian Ferguson Glasgow, Lanark
My connection to this thread is through Robert Blair and Margaret McLuckie. Robert was my 3rd great grand uncle, brother of my 3rd great grandfather. Robert and Margaret were the first of my Blair line to come to America in 1785.
Margaret McLuckie had several brothers and sisters including Robert McLuckie and Andrew McLuckie. Andrew married Jean Methven. Andrew and Jean had several children including James McLuckie baptised on 29 April 1781 in Kippen. This James may be the same James we're discussing in this thread.
Several years ago we found about 30 letters in the Vermont Historical Society written to Robert Blair in Barnet Vermont. These letters were written by family members and friends from 1786 to 1818. Several of these letters were written by Robert McLuckie and other McLuckies and discussed family members in Scotland.
I've been going through these letters today I've come to the conclusion that James McLuckie who married Christian Graham is not the son of Andrew McLuckie and Jean Methven. In a letter dated Aug 1816 Robert mentions that James is living in Arnfinlay and his youngest sister Jean is keeping house. Again in June 1818 Robert says that James and Jean the youngest daughter (of Andrew) are in Arnfinlay. There is no mention of James having a wife in any of the letters.
It's still possible that my James married Janet Archibald but we may never know for certain.
John
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Hi John,
I think the most likely James McLuckie on the list is either the one with parents Thomas McLuckie and Mary Haggie or James McLucky and Janet Nuckle. James married Christian Graham in 1803 so a birth for him in 1781 or 1783 would be about right. I will work on the first set of parents and hopefully I may find something that could tie in with my family.
Thank you so much for your help.
Pauline
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Hi Nora,
Thank you for the sending the son of James and Christian. I don't know how I missed Peter.
James McLuckie and Christian Graham had a son John born on 9 April 1816 in Kilsyth.
John married Mary Neish in 1835 in Campsie. John was a Blacksmith and died in Glasgow in 1894. They had a son William born in 1837/38 in Campsie.
William married Janet Watson on 21 June 1861 in Kilmarnock. William was an Iron Finisher.William died in 1887 in Kilmarnock.They had a son George born 1 March 1874 in Kilmarnock.
George moved to England between 1891 and 1900. George married Ethel Maud Hardstaff on the 19 April 1900 in Dartford, Kent. George's occupation was a Cycle Maker in High St, Erith, Kent. George died in 1945 in Chelsea. They had a son George born 1 May 1905 in Erith, Kent. This George McLuckie is my husbands father. He died in New Zealand in 1967.
Sorry I probably have not explained it very well.
Pauline
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Hi all
As Nora has indicated, James McLuckie and Janet Archibald came to Hastings County Ontario Canada. (They were married in 1822, James was reported as 76 in the 1851 census in Canada. So I have it that James was 46 to 47 ish when he got married. Janet was 24. (based on secondary material))
I have long wondered that given James was getting married so late in life, if this was his second marriage.
When I looked at potential matches, from Mr. Blair's web page/database (that has been a great help to me...thank you!) I offer the best fit is James having married Christina Graham in 1803. I see children from a James McLuckie/Christina Graham marriage from 1804 to 1818. Which would support a second marriage in 1822 to Janet Archibald.
Lastly, given the 1851 Canadian census report of James being 76, I have also thought that the best match (from Mr. Blair's data base) for the birth of James was Nov 1774 (parents Andrew McLuckie and Jean Buchanan)
Except for the arrival of James Mc and Janet A in Ontario Canada....the rest of the connection is supposition....but it seems to fit.
I welcome your collective thoughts
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Hi Rmcl,
Welcome to RootsChat
I was very interested in the information you posted on James McLuckie and Janet Archibald. From John Blair's list of births for James McLuckie I had narrowed my search down to the first two. The James born in 1771 only because his father was Alexander and James McLuckie and Christian Graham called one of their sons Alexander.
The second James born in 1774 with the information you have provided looks a very good match. James and Christian first son James born in 1804 I cannot find any information on and think he died young so it seems likely when he married for the second time he named his first son James also.Otherwise all the names of the children born in Scotland are different.
Can you tell me please if there is an occupation on the 1851 census for James McLuckie. On his son John's marriage certificate in 1855 it states his father's occupation was a Forrester and in 1855 he was deceased.
Also can you tell me the names of the children born in Canada please.
We will solve this one yet.
Pauline Mc
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Pauline
Thanks for the welcome. I'm new to genealogy.
In 1851 census, James (76) (widower) was living in rural Huntington Twp, Hastings County, Ontario, Canada. (Just west of the current hamlet of Ivanhoe). He was shown as a farmer....but I presume anyone living on a farm was considered a farmer.
The 1851 census shows his son, James Jr (26) is on the farm next door. Also his daughters (Jean (Jane) (25) and Janet (Jannet) (23) appear to have married brothers (Harvey's) and living on the farm on the opposite side to their father.
In 1851 Jame's son William was also in Hastings County working as a laborer.
Census shows children born in Canada were John (15) and Chistiannah (Christie Ann) (13). (Note John's tombstone would indicate he was born in 1838 ...died 1860 at 21 years 10 months but I am convinced it is accurate).
Members of Janet Archibald's family are also in Hastings County in 1851 nearby. (within a few kilometres)
Lastly, John, Jane (and husband), Janet (and husband) are buried in the Archibald family cemetery (head stones clearly visible) in Hastings County. I speculate/think Janet Archibald (and if so, I presume James Sr) is also buried there but the head stone has become illegible. I hope some day to be able to prove this.
I hope this helps.
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Hi
Thanks for all the wonderful information. It was a big help.
I am a little concerned that we now have a family with two sons called John. My husband's GrGr Grandfather John was born in 1816 and another son John born in 1835 so I am beginning to think maybe this is not my McLuckie family. Such a pity as it all seemed to fit in place.
Thank you once again. Good luck with your researching. It becomes very addictive.
Pauline McLuckie
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Hello Pauline,
I have no connection/no knowledge about any of these families, so am unable to offer anything further.
Your last comment on the 2 Johns .....
If you can verify that the 1st John was your husband's ancestor, then the 2nd John was probably not his brother. It was very common for parents to give subsequent children the names of those who had died young or in infancy, but in this case - most definately not if the 1st one was still living.
The time difference between your 2 Johns is 19 years - enough time for another generation to easily have fitted in between - could you have missed something somewhere?
Anne
P.S. Welcome to Rootschat! :)