RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: ruthy1 on Thursday 06 November 08 15:40 GMT (UK)
-
Hi,
I am hoping someone can shed some light on a bit of a mystery / confusion. Thanks to an earlier post I have progressed a bit, but am still rather confused.
I am researching the family of James Perry. He was born in 1837 in Long Benton Northumberland, and in the 1861 census was married to Mercy (nee Box – they married in 1858) and had children Ann born in 1859, and Maria born in 1861. He was at this time a miner, and at the time of his second marriage to Esther in 1875 he was an Insurance Agent.
In 1881 he was remarried (Mercy died in 1875 and he married Esther Pettigrove in Dec 1875) with the following info:
James Perry, Married, Aged 44 birth 1837 Occupation Newsagent
Esther Perry, Married, Aged 44 birth 1837
Ann Perry, Daughter Single birth 1868 Domestic (serv)
Mariah Perry, Daughter, single birth 1871 Scholar
I am confident it is the same James Perry in both families (I actually have the copy of his marriage to Mercy,the birth certificate of Maria showing the parents, and the marriage cert of him to Esther showing he was a widow, and from the dates, place of birth etc, I haven’t found any other possible James Perrys it could be..
His death was in 1910 (I am waiting for the death cert copy)
The mystery is that I can’t find this family in the 1871 census or the 1891 census, and the ages of the children don’t add up either between the two census so I am confused. The children can’t be Esthers because of the dates, and the names remain the same and they are down as daughters.
Maybe I just have to accept that info. is missing and what is there is incorrect, but I thought I would ask in case anyone could throw any light on it.
Many thanks
Ruthy
-
Hi Ruthy,
They are certainly elusive!
One mystery maybe solved though, in 1861 census the first daughter b. 1859 is Jane, not Ann. The first Maria may have died and they named the later one after her
Possible birth regs:
Mar 1859 Houghton 10a 339 PERRY Jane
Jun 1861 Houghton 10a 348 PERRY Maria
Still looking for 1871/1891
Barbara
-
Hi Barbara,
Thanks for your interest and help. Yes you are right the first daughter was Jane, my mistake there, and I have the birth certificate for the Maria (and am confidant the certificate for Jane would have the same info. - maybe I should purchase it also to be certain though)
Look forward to hearing if you are able to unravel anything further - this family have been really confusing me .
Ruthy
-
Hi
I notice that Mariah, age 10 in 1881, was born in Trimdon (RG11/4976 75 p20). The family may have been there at the time of the 1871 census but I have not managed to find them!
All the best
Gobbo
-
Hi
Just to confuse us there two James Perrys born in Benton in the 1830s. I have just stumbled across a Northumberland family in the 1871 census for Bedlington (RG10/5165 179 p62) which has moved to Durham, Pelton in the 1891 census (RG12/4121 147 p33). This James was born about 1831 and married to an Ellen. In both censuses he was a coal miner. He was not very consistent when it came to reporting where his children were born.
All the best
Gobbo
-
Hi Gobbo,
Yes I had seen the other James Perry, and was also looking in Trimdon (re Mariah's birth) but, like you, without success.
Maybe just missed off the census, once in 1871, I can understand, I have one of those families, but then again in 1891 ???
Barbara
-
Hi Barbara
I thought since he was a newsagent that I might find him in a Directory but on-line directories of Durham for the end of the 19th century are absent from the Historical Directories site.
Gobbo
-
A tough one this !
So from another direction.....
James and his Benton, Northumberland family , move into Hetton-le-Hole, Co Durham when he is a young man ( Census 1851 2393-317-16)
Later he marries two wives from the south-west of the country.
Mercy and the Box family from Midsomer ( it must have been murder down there lol ) Somerset, move upwards to Hetton .
Her dad was a Somerset coal miner ! James and Mercy marry in the locale in 1858. (By 1861 The Perry and Box families are close together in Hetton... census refs... Perry 3755-41-16, Box 3755-38-10, )
Then within a few months of Mercy's death in early 1875, James marries 38 yr old Esther Pettigrove. But Esther wasn't living just up the next colliery row in Hetton. He went down to Gloucestershire to marry her.
I wonder how he met her in the first place ??
But unfortunately all my chewing over does not answer the question about where the Perrys were on censuses 1871 and 1891 ( Where were they on C1901)
Did James's daughters marry and stay in the Hetton area ?
Michael Dixon
-
Thanks everyone so far, it certainly is a tough one.
I have ordered the birth cert. of the second Maria Perry born in 1870 to see what info. there is on there. I am also waiting for the death cert. of James Perry (d 1910 chester-le-street) who could be my ancestor, but I will wait to see the info.on that certificate.
Right from when I first started my family research I have wondered about the possible Perry links with the Somerset (most of my other Perry’s were miners) area and have not yet established a link (my earliest records peter out in the 1780’s and my line ,only one solitary person, also a miner, married and was “of this parish” in Widdrington in Northumberland) I wondered if James went back to the Somerset area due to family links…
What I have established is that the Box family moved to Hetton (miners) and James Perry married the daughter Mercy. She died of “softening of the brain” in 1875.
Esther “Pettigrove” whom James married in Dec 1875 was from a large family many of whom emigrated to Australia. Esther herself went in 1861 to Melbourne and later returned (along with her sister and husband). In the 1871 census she is back in Bristol living with her mother. I was given this information by a Genes Reunited member from Australia, (the Pettigrove name is well researched).
I too cannot establish how she might have met James Perry either – were there family in the area that he visited and met her whilst there?? Or was Esther a friend of the Box’s?
I cannot find the family in the 1901 census either at the moment, and depending on the information contained in the death certificate on it’s way for a James Perry (which will hopefully confirm one way or the other if he is the James Perry in question), I am wondering if the family went back to Australia and that they were just missed off the earlier 1971 census for some reason.
I don’t know how or if I can establish this. Could a post on the emigrants board on Roots chat be a way forward perhaps
I have not found the marriage of any of the daughters as yet either.
Ruthy
-
Ancestry has UK incoming passenger lists 1878-1960 (although I had a quick look and didn't see them there), and findmypast has passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 (- those dates are probably too late) and passport applications 1851-1903
Barbara
-
Hi
Freebmd index gives Mercy Perry's age at death as 35 (Deaths Jan-Mar 1875 Houghton 10a 374). The 1861 census shows her birthplace as Somersetshire, Radstock. The 1841 census has a one-year old Mercy Box in Radstock (HO107 948 8 38 p27). Her birth was probably not registered (I cannot find her on Freebmd births) but must be about 1840 not 1835.
Her family in 1841 comprised
Nathanill [Nathaniel?] Box 35 Grocer (b. Somersetshire)
Maria " 35
George " 11 Coal Miner
Stephen " 9 Coal Miner
Mary " 6
Thomas " 4
Mercy " 1
all born in Somersetshire. The 1841 census does not give relationships but I assume this is Father , Mother and Offspring.
All the best
Gobbo
-
Hi
I have been looking for the Perry family in the 1871 census: it might have included James b. about 1836 in Northumberland, Mercy b. about 1839 in Somerset, Jane b. 1859, Maria b. 1861, Ann b. 1867, Maria b. 1870 plus any other children born between the birth of Maria 1861 and Maria 1870. I have looked for Perry, Percy, Berry and Ferry plus Per* and also for Mercy, the two Marias and Jane without surnames but with the appropriate birth data. Search on A******y seems to be a little more eccentric than usual but I think that it has covered the ground and not found an 1871 record for the family. So perhaps they have indeed been missed.
If you want to know James's occupation and where in Trimdon Mercy was living in the second half of 1870 then you need to apply for a copy of the second Maria's birth certificate. The GRO reference from Freebmd is Births, Jul-Sep 1870 Perry Maria Stockton 10a 132 (Trimdon was in the Stockton registration district).
You could get similar information for Hetton in the first half of 1867 from Ann's birth certificate, reference Births Apr-Jun 1867 Perry Ann Houghton 10a 427.
All the best
Gobbo
-
Hi all,
Thanks for all the help & information so far.
I have looked on the passenger lists available, and also cannot find anything.
I have ordered the birth certificate of the second Maria – as you say Gobbo, this will hopefully give a few clues. With all your searching on the census I agree that it is looking increasingly as if they were just missed off the 1871 census.
As for the later census…I just don’t know. I have contacted the Genes Reunited member who gave me the info on Esther, the second wife, going to and returning from Australia just in case he has access to anything that would show the family out there again. Also I will try searching very widely as you have done Gobbo for the later census. An elusive family!!
Many thanks
Ruthy
-
Hi Ruthy
Do you know where James Perry was on the night of the 1901 census? Perhaps I am not as good as I thought I was because I cannot find him in that census either!
All the best
Gobbo
Whoops - I see you have already said that you cannot find him in the 1901 census.
-
Hi,
A bit of an update. The Genes Reunited member has had a look at the deaths for Victoria & NSW but couldn't find anything for James or Esther (Hester) Perry, they also had a look at the passenger lists but couldn't find any Perrys at all. So that avenue is not looking hopeful.
I have also searched for a death of Hester / Esther Perry in the 1881 / 1891 time frame, and haven't found anything. I haven't looked at name variations as yet.
I'll see what the two certificates say when they arrive, otherwise I am running out of steam I think.
Ruthy
-
Just a thought, but I have located Ferrys which were transcribed into Perrys - it likely happens the other way too.
Pat
-
Hi Madchia, Thanks for the suggestion - I think someone further back in the thread has looked at that aspect, and it is possible. I have had Peary too! I have not looked at this mystery for a while so have had a few hours pondering and researching again now. I now have the death Cert I was waiting for, but it didn't really help. So I am still in the dark with this one. As Esther had already emigrated once maybe the family did again, not that I have found any reference. I can't find records for any of the family in England though either. Still a mystery! Can't win them all I guess :-\
-
Hi Ruthy there is a James Perry in the 1851, 1861 and 1881 census in houghton but not in the 1871 or 1891census. But in stockton there is a James Perry in the 1871 and 1891 census but none in the 1851,1861or 1881.and Trimdon where mariah was born in 1871 came under the stockton sedgfield area all seems to be too much of a coincidence not to be the same James moving to and fro between houghton and stockton Unfortunately i am unable to access the census to check the occupations but i am sure someone will help if you cant
above info came from "1901census on line ,search all census"
Brian
-
Hi Briann,
Thanks for this information. I have been able to look at this family on the Census, and it seems, unfortunately, not to be the same family. This James was born in Yorkshire and his wife was Ellen with children Charlotte and Mary. Still no joy! Thanks again though.
Ruthy