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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: taylorwallace on Wednesday 05 November 08 13:10 GMT (UK)
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Cannot find this on Scotlands People or IGI. 1841 Census shows family (parents both born in county) in Inverkeithing with two young children, suggesting marriage 1838/39. Would welcome location and date, please. (Mothers maiden name shown as Mitchell on their sons marriage certificate from 1865 Dalgetty)
taylorwallace
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Can't easily see a marriage for them either :-\
This looks to be the family in 1851, everyone showing as born in Inverkeithing except for Andrew:
Andrew Dewar 34, farm lab., b. Dunfermline
Elisabeth Dewar 40
James Dewar 12
Ann Dewar 10
William Dewar 6
John Dewar 3
Thomas Dewar 1
Elisabeth Crawford 6, neice
Town: Hillend, Inverkeithing
Only the births/christenings of the first three children show on IGI, actual extract.
Monica :)
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Hello
The IGI shows the following births - all extracted:
James Dewar B: 17 NOV 1838 Inverkeithing, Fife, Scotland Ch: 24 NOV 1838 Inverkeithing, Fife, Scotland
Ann Dewar - Ch: 24 JAN 1841 Associate Congregation, Inverkeithing, Fife, Scotland
William Dewar - B: 17 JAN 1845 Inverkeithing, Fife, Scotland ch. 27 JAN 1845 Inverkeithing, Fife, Scotland
Regards, Steve :O)
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Thanks, Monica; I have the family traced from 1841 to 1901 on the census so really am just hoping that there may be a parish that hasnt got its marriage records on IGI or the Scotlands people site that someone local there has access to. Being south of the border, I am not personally familiar with the Fife parishes; could of course be that the couple didnt formally marry..
taylorwallace
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It could be that or maybe simply that the relevant register hasn't survived over the years. It might be worthwhile you ordering films from your local LDS library to see whether you might find something relevant. There are films of births/marriages that did not get indexed for IGI. I would probably start with the Inverkeithing one, assuming at least Banns of the marriage were read there given that Elizabeth shows as born there.
Monica
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Just picking up on the birth/christening place name for daughter Ann b. 1841, I found this for example:
Inverkeithing 889483 Item 5 Inverkeithing Associate Congregation Minutes and marriages, 1756-1852 and baptisms, 1764-1852. CH3/452 National Archives of Scotland
www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/FIF/LDSfilmsOtherChurches.htm
Monica
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To help you get your head round the Parishes in Fife www.scotlandsfamily.com/parish-map-fife.htm
Monica
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Thanks, Monica and Steve; will follow up with the associate congregation idea as one of the children was baptised there
taylorwallace
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How interesting: - I have an Archibald Mitchell married to Ann Dewar, 11/03/1832. Archie and Ann were both born about 1810/11, and Archie was a Ship Master; they lived in Crail. Possible brother & sister marrying a brother & sister?
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Thanks for taking the trouble to reply; there could be a link but Elizabeth Mitchell on my line was born in Inverkeithing according to both 1851 and 1861 census rather than in Crail or Ceres which would appear to be where Archibald Mitchell came from; will keep your email in case I can proceed further; I suspect my marriage was at a church not on IGI with records lodged at Scottish record office...
taylorwallace
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Might still be a possibility: - I don't think I have definite information as yet about where Archibald was born. Will keep fingers crossed (and head well-separated from brick walls!)
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At ScotlandsPeople there is a marriage entry in the OPR dated 11 Dec 1837 in Inverkeithing, Fife between Andrew Deawer and Elizabeth Mitchall.
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Thanks for that; must have missed the slightly different spelling!
taylorwallace
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Deb DHow interesting: - I have an Archibald Mitchell married to Ann Dewar, 11/03/1832. Archie and Ann were both born about 1810/11, and Archie was a Ship Master; they lived in Crail. Possible brother & sister marrying a brother & sister?
I have families from Crail a James Dewar born 1806. married Janet Mitchell b.1805,
James' parents - James Dewar and Christian Chiene
Janet's parents - John Mitchell and Janet Davidson
possibly a connection here?
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thanks for making this link.
taylorwallace
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Cavers! Sorry, only just found your reply!
Yes, we have the same Janet Mitchell b. 25/5/1805 married to James Dewar b. 6/10/1806 - both in Crail. It looks as if Janet's younger brother Archibald may have married James' sister Anne!
Archibald and Anne were my 3xgt grandparents. Their son James Mitchell b. 1849 married Helen Henderson b. 1850, and their son Archibald married Agnes Morgan. These were the parents of my maternal grandmother, Mary Sophia Morgan Mitchell, b. 24/12/1899, married Alexander Baird Kinnear ... and emigrated to Australia in the mid 1920s :)
Deb
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yes we have a connection then, I just was looking up some info and I found the birth records for Anne and she would be James' sister.
James and Janet would be my 4xgreat grandparents there daughter Christian married Robert Meldrum, they had a son James Meldrum who married Janet Marr, and they had my grt grandmother Betsy Meldrum, who married John Leslie. parents of my grandfather.
my family moved to Montreal Quebec Canada, around the same time
would love to share info sent pm.
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Hello cavers89. I found your last post very interesting indeed. Your tree intersects with mine so much that it's difficult to explain, but I'll try!
Your 3 x great-grandparents were Robert Meldrum and Christian Chiene Dewar, who were married in Crail in 1863. Robert was the son of James Meldrum, carter, from Pittenweem, and Elspeth Ritchie of Crail.
James Meldrum was the son of John Meldrum, sailor then coal-miner in Pittenweem, and his 1st wife Margaret Sives. Margaret died, leaving John with about 6 or 7 children to bring up, and he subsequently married Christian Keay from neighbouring Cellardyke (parish of Kilrenny) in 1807. John died later that same year, and Christian, by now pregnant, skedaddled back to Cellardyke, abandoning her large brood of stepchildren. The Pittenweem kirk-session wrote to John's eldest child, Agnes, who was then in service, offering to pay her a small weekly wage if she would come home and look after her siblings.
Meanwhile John Meldrum's widow Christian Keay, the wicked stepmother, gave birth to a son called John Meldrum who was to be the ancestor of the later Cellardyke Meldrums, including my great-grandmother Annie Meldrum. John Meldrum and his 2nd wife Christian Keay were my 3 x great-grandparents. I have traced the Meldrums back to a James Meldrum born in Cupar parish in 1734. The Meldrums of Colinsburgh(par. of Kilconquhar), St. Monans, Pittenweem, Cellardyke and Crail can be shown to be descended from him.
I also have a Dewar connection. I had 3 x great-grandparents on my mother's side called Robert Peebles and Ann Dewar, and Ann was the daughter of William Dewar of Crail and Penny Spence of Kingsbarns who were married at Crail in 1800. Moreover, my mum's best friend at Crail primary school was a Lizzie Dewar whose ancestry I have traced, and she was descended like you from James Dewar and Janet Mitchell (through their son Archibald Dewar).
Moreover again, this Archibald Dewar and his wife Elizabeth Grubb were the parents of James Dewar who married Marjory Taylor in 1892. Marjory was a half-sister of my great-grandfather James Peebles (they shared the same mother, Marjory Myles).
I'm interested in the name Marr too, and some friends of mine have done a lot of work on the Marrs in east Fife. I went to school with a Jack Marr from St. Monans, who now lives in West Vancouver, and my wife and I went out to Canada for the first time ever in 2004 at his invitation and stayed with him there. Your 2 x great-grandmother Janet Mentiplay Marr was the daughter of James Marr and Betsy Wilson and the granddaughter of James Marr and Janet Mentiplay. I have lots on the Mentiplays too, but I won't go into all that here!
I think that's enough for one post. Hope I haven't baffled you too much!
Harry
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Hello hdw
I have just found your message which mentions my great grand parents James Dewar and Marjory Taylor. I am very interested in Marjory's mother Marjory Myles and any connections, ancestors and descendants. James Peebles had a sister Helen who looked after my grand father after my his parents untimely deaths.
I would be very happy to share info with you.
Charles
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Hello Charles. Briefly, I've traced our MYLES line back to
Robert MYLES and Marjorie TOD who were married in Largo parish in 1752. Robert may have been from the Largo/Newburn area, where his surname was common. Marjorie was the daughter of Samuel TOD, mason, and Jean INNES of Anstruther, and both her father and her mother came from old Anstruther families. Robert and Marjorie were married at Largo by the minister of Anstruther, Mr. Nairne, and a bit later they moved to Anstruther where their son
William MYLES was born in 1771. In 1795 William married Janet BLACK at Innergellie, Kilrenny, where he was a labourer. Nowadays Innergellie is just a big old house with some land around it, but there used to be a little village there within the larger village of Kilrenny.
William and Janet married during the Napoleonic Wars, and William became a soldier in the Dumfriesshire Militia, who were stationed in Fife at the time. I think they were a bit like a Home Guard, and he would have got a bit of a wage and a uniform but not have had to actually go abroad and fight. Over the next few years Wm. and Janet had several children who are registered in the old parish registers of Carnbee parish, just inland from Anstruther. They moved around various farms in the area before settling in Crail, where they were both buried in the churchyard. No headstone, but I have a copy of the burial entries from the sexton's burial book.
Janet BLACK survived through to the Crail census of 1851 in which she gave her parish of birth as Carnbee. BLACK was a common name in that parish, but I haven't been able to pinpoint her parents.
During the hard years after the end of the war (1815+), there was great unemployment and near-famine conditions up and down the land, and most of Wm. and Janet's children died. One who survived was
James MYLES, who was born in 1799 at Newbigging farm in St. Andrews parish. In 1821 James MYLES, who was a coal-miner, married Betsy BURNS at Crail. Betsy was one of two illegitimate children born in St. Andrews to John BURNS, sievewright or "riddle-maker" (a specialised form of joinery) by his servant Christian BROWN, who may have been a Crail woman, I'm not sure. The BURNS family had been sievewrights in St. Andrews for generations. I know a lot about them as John's father James BURNS went bankrupt and I have photocopies of the bankruptcy proceedings from the Sheriff Court Records in the National Archives of Scotland, West Register House.
James BURNS died young, at 29, whether from an accident down the pit or disease, I don't know. His and Betsy's daughter
Marjorie MYLES, born 1825, bore two illegitimate children called James and Helen PEEBLES in 1853 and 1855 respectively. The father is named in the Crail kirk-session records as "James PEEBLES, farm-labourer". I have worked out that he must have been the James born in Kilrenny parish in 1827, I think (haven't got my notes handy) to Robert PEEBLES and Ann DEWAR.
James never married Marjorie MYLES or anybody else. In 1855, the year in which his 2nd illegitimate child was born, he skedaddled to the other side of the world (Tasmania) with his younger brother Robert on the emigrant ship Commodore Perry, and never came back. I got all this from descendants of his brother Robert in Australia whom I "met" on another internet forum.
Of the children he left behind (and weren't the PEEBLES descendants in Australia gobsmacked when I told them this!), James PEEBLES married Margaret SPINK, whose parents had moved to Crail from Auchmithie, near Arbroath. James and Margaret were my great-grandparents.
Helen PEEBLES never married, but in 1881 she had an illegitimate daughter called Madeline Wilson PEEBLES. In 1913 Madeline married Alexander ANDERSON of Anstruther.
I have to laugh when I look back at what I've written and see that I was going to be "brief". But there was a lot to tell.
I'd be interested to correspond with you and swap more information, either here, or, to avoid boring other members of this forum, privately.
Harry
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Hello Charles & Harry -
Since we've established that cavers89 and I are distantly related, then we obviously have connections with your families, too. I notice a number of shared names in the list - Mitchell, Dewar, Herd, Beveridge ... it goes on and on! LOL
Pleased to meet you! :)
Cheers
Deb
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Likewise, Deb. I had hoped that all those names I mentioned might ring bells for some people.
Harr
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I wonder if anyone here with MITCHELL ancestors in Crail has come across a DAVID MITCHELL in the late 18th century? His nickname or "by-name" was "Slidam", and there are umpteen anecdotes about him in the old Pittenweem Register, a news-sheet that circulated in the East Neuk of Fife before the start of modern newspapers in the 1850s.
"Slidam" was famous for his pawky, dry wit, as witness the following anecdote from the Pittenweem Register of September 21st 1850:-
"SLIDAM", OF CRAIL.- Slidam was a small farmer, or pauchler, as they are called here, whose real name was David Mitchel. When the law passed that every cart should have the name of its owner painted on it, David paid no attention to the new regulation. One day when he was returning from Pittenweem with a load of coal, the Laird of Innergellie, who was a Justice of the Peace, inspected Slidam's cart, and found that he had transgressed the law.
"What is the reason you have no name on your cart?" said the Laird; "I dinna ken, Sir," answered David. "Ye dinna ken!" cried Innergellie, "Do you not see that every-one has a name on their cart but yourself?" "Ou, then," replied Slidam, in his soft and easy way, "If that's the case, ye'll easily ken mine frae the rest!"
Harry
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Firstly Hello to Deb pleased to meet you
Harry I can't thank you enough for that "brief" but much appreciated information on the Myles line.
I had an auntie who was named after Helen Peebles' daughter Madeline. So her christian names were Madeline Wilson Peebles, quite a mouthfull.
I am more than happy to continue this exchange in a more direct manner. If Deb would like to do so then you are more than welcome.
Harry thanks again look forward to hearing from you and Deb
Charles
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Where are you based, Charles? I live in Edinburgh, about an hour's drive from Anstruther and Cellardyke. Were you brought up in Fife?
I concentrated on my direct MYLES ancestors above, but I also have info. on other members of the extended family.
Harry
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Hi Harry
I am new to RootsChat and have sent a reply through the personal messaging. Hope it works!
If not I'll answer this way.
Charles