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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: bel_jon68 on Thursday 03 February 05 13:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: bel_jon68 on Thursday 03 February 05 13:19 GMT (UK)
Can anyone tell me what sort of info is contained in court adoption papers please? 

Would they give both parents' names if only one parent registered the birth?

Would they state the reason for adoption?

Would they give any background on the birth parents?

The adoption papers I'm interested in were destroyed by the adoptive parents and I'm wondering if it's worth getting a copy from the court, or whether the papers will tell me what I already know.

Thanks

Bel
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: gennig on Monday 14 February 05 12:30 GMT (UK)
Hi bel_jon68

I have copies of my own adoption papers (they are Australian) so I don't know if English ones will have the same information. 

I was adopted at the County court at Melbourne in 1964, it was held in the Judges Chambers and both my sister and I were present as we were 9.  The judge asked us if we wished to be adopted.

When I applied for my adoption papers I received the following:-
A copy of my original Birth Certificate
A copy of my mothers Death Certificate
Copies of all court documents including the Affidavit verifying consent by parent of infant. (In my case my father) and a sworn statement from the Social welfare officer in charge of our case.

It doesn't give the reason for the adoption, but in my case our mother died when we were 2 and we were adopted by our Great Aunt & Uncle.

Cheers
Genni


Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 23 February 05 15:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Bel,
I knew my father was adopted, so applied for what I thought would give me more details other than family rumour.
What I got was a  'Certified copy of an entry in the Adopted Children Register', which is maintained at the GRO.  This I applied for from GRO.  It is NOT the adoption papers, as I thought.  These papers are only available to the adopted child.
The certificate I have gives the date of the adoption, childs first name (no mention of the name he/she might have been registered in at birth) full name of the adopting couple, address and occupation.  The date of birth of the child, date of adoption order and place.
Hope this helps,
Jane
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Wednesday 23 February 05 16:08 GMT (UK)
I am adopted and have all the court papers

it gives the childs name, application made by......... and address authorising them to adopt ............ an infant or child of .......... and the infant is to be known being ...................
 it having been proved that the infant is identical with  ......(childs name) to whom an entry numbered  ..... and made on the .......(date in the register of births for .......(Place)
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Wednesday 23 February 05 16:09 GMT (UK)
hope you understand that!
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Wednesday 23 February 05 16:12 GMT (UK)
in a nutshell, if the parents registered the birth they will be named in the adoption papers, if single mother only her name will be given.  There are no reasons given for the adoption, and no information is given about the parent('s).
is that clearer?
Jan
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 23 February 05 17:49 GMT (UK)
Correct me if I'm wrong Janet, but the adoption papers are only available to the adopted child should they have been lost?  In my case, my father (who was adopted) is deceased and I can't get hold of the papers, only this certificate,
Jane
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Wednesday 23 February 05 17:52 GMT (UK)
Jane,
I can't help you there, all my papers including solicitors paper etc were given to me by my adoptive father. I did ring up the GRO and asked for my full original birth certificate, but I was able to do that as I knew my blood mothers name.
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 23 February 05 18:02 GMT (UK)
Gottcha, Janet.  Thanks

Jane
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: lovin lass on Thursday 10 March 05 14:01 GMT (UK)
hi
i am an adoptee and wondering if i could get my adoption papers from the court i have my foster papers but would like to know what was said in court i was 12 at the time and did go to the court but was kept in the judges room with my sister who was also adopted with me.it would be another part of my history to see what was said
many thanks angie
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Thursday 10 March 05 18:13 GMT (UK)
Hi there lovin lass, you say you are adopted, without being personal, are you still with your Adopted parents? The reason I ask this is that all paperwork from court, solicitors, social services would have been given/sent to your Adoptive parents. If you could ask for this paperwork it would be of great help for you to try to access the court minutes (if this is allowed). The paperwork would also give your blood parents name/s and at which court the Adoption was settled at.
Hope this is of some help
all the best
Jan
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: lovin lass on Thursday 10 March 05 20:05 GMT (UK)
hi janet
my foster parents are no longer with us i have one adoption paper but it dont say anything about what was said i always knew who my parents were and i have date of adoption and i know my birth parents didnt sign the adoption papers which was realy strange as we had not seen our parents for years before the adoption thanks for the advice will see if i can get minuets from the court
angie
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Thursday 10 March 05 20:36 GMT (UK)
 do you know the name of the solicitors who dealt with the adoption, you may be able to get information from them.
Jan
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: lovin lass on Thursday 10 March 05 22:04 GMT (UK)
hi janet
i wasnt aware that a solicitor was involved only social services as far as i know i think i might ask my post adoption worker to c if i can get any info on the court case she got out adoption file for us
thank you for all your help
best wishes angie
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: janetm on Thursday 10 March 05 22:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Angie, if you can get anybody within social services to help you, it would be far better that trying it alone.
Jan
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Guinevere on Thursday 31 March 05 12:55 BST (UK)
Hi,My mum was adopted,and all i can get from the adoption societies is the actual document my grandparents had when they adopted her.It had my mums original FIRST name,and then my grandparents full names addresses etc,and the area where adoption was done.there was absolutely no info about her true parents.Its very disheartening as i would love to find more about her out,butthe laws have changed not one jot for siblings of adopted people.I'm not sure if the new laws that came in in January freedom of information act would make any difference to you.
If it does,let me know and i will try an d get my mums info as its sad to not know.
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: bel_jon68 on Wednesday 06 April 05 21:15 BST (UK)
Hi guinivere

Mine is a long, long story but I'll make it brief. 

I suspected my mother was adopted for many years, but didn't know for sure until I got her adoption certificate.  Using only the same info you have about your mum, I took a stab in the dark at working out what my mum's birth name was, based on the possibility that my 'nan' was a relative of her birth mother's.  I researched a family based on this possibility, and it turned out my instincts were right.  I now know who my biological grandmother was and although I found out too late to meet her, I've found a contact who may be able to tell me all about her.

All I'm saying is, don't give up hope, and if you have any inklings about anything, go with them and see where they take you.

Good luck

Bel
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Guinevere on Thursday 07 April 05 07:00 BST (UK)
Hi Bel,Wow,that was some great detective work,fabulous.
Sadly i don't know many family as it is,and my family is dysfunctional and estranged to my total heartbreak,so although the principal you used was great i have so very little to go on.
My mums birth name was down as just "Peggy",my Gran hanged it to Joy Dorothy,Dorothy being my Gran's middle name,and Joy being my aunties.And that is totall all i have,so unless they unlock the file I'm destined to never know my true grandparents history,even though the grandparents i grew up with will always be my true ones,but curiosity is a powerful thing.
Now my parents are both passed away since 1987,my mum went first,we went to funeral,got home,dad sat down,my sister went to make him a cup of tea,and came back to living room,and he just went in the chair,so they passed within 8days of each other.
My grandparents who were so wonderful to me,as i was horribly abused by my parents my mother mainly,and they shoved me in and out of care,once on my 6th birthday,and once 2days before Christmas,that if my grandparents hadn't taken me away for holidays i would be very deprived of the only love i had as a child,hence i did nothing about trying to find my mums roots till they both passed also.
I just want to know if my mum was the way she was from family trait,history,as abuse can be inherited,.She was 1 when she was adopted,and thats all i have,Its very frustrating huh?.
Thats why I'm doubly thrilled you found your info,at least its possible.Take Care.Love Ann.xxxxxx :) ;)
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: Guinevere on Thursday 07 April 05 07:02 BST (UK)
Dont know if its me,but the messages seem to be going in in wrong order,my last message went to top of list,i did nothing different.lol. Maybe its gremlins.lol. xxxx
Title: Re: Anyone seen adoption papers?
Post by: CarolynP on Friday 06 May 05 23:59 BST (UK)
I am a little late joining this conversation, but I have only just joined RootsChat.
I adopted 2 children in Scotland in the early 70's, both as infants. The information we were given by social services on finalising the adoptions was very limited and had no reference at all to the mothers' or fathers' names.  The birth certificates we/they used throughout childhood, and now as adults were the shortened version with no reference to birth parents.  We also had the copies of entries in the Adopted Childrens Register - again with no mention of birth parents.
When my daughter reached 17/18 she was able to access her original birth certificate which had only her birth mother's name.  I was fully supportive of this move and together we have reached many brick walls in trying to "locate" the mother - very difficult as she was a young immigrant. 
Previous "chatters" are right - ONLY the adoptee can access any information regarding birth parents.
Good luck to all of you with your searches!
Carolyn