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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: flst on Tuesday 04 November 08 16:43 GMT (UK)

Title: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Tuesday 04 November 08 16:43 GMT (UK)
James Campbell Stephen,born 25/9/1871,in Aberdeenshire Scotland,sailed to Punta Arenas in 1897.Mary Ann Stephen followed in 1908.They were married in Punta Arenas on 9th October 1908.James's residence is given as Delgada,Patagonia.Their only child,Margaret Stephen was born on 8/10/1910 in Gaiman,Chubut,Argentina.James was a shepherd & died when Margaret was one year old.Mary returned to Strichen,Aberdeenshire with her daughter.Sadly Mary died when Margaret was only 5 years old,& is buried in Strichen graveyard.An inscription on the headstone gives the details (as above) of James's death,although his middle name is wrongly transcribed.I have read books,checked out websites on Patagonia etc. & searched scotlandspeople & English records,overseas deaths,consular returns etc, but cannot find his death recorded.I cannot find S.American newspapers around that period which may have reported his death. What should I do next?
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 11:15 GMT (UK)
I have come across the Canning House Library in London but as yet haven't been. This library holds a huge collection of Spanish and Portuguese material. I suggest that you google this and see what I mean. You just never know it may help you.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 12:19 GMT (UK)
To solicit birth marriage or death certificates in Argentina see:

http://www.registrocivil.gov.ar/areas/registrocivil/Tramites/partidas/?menu_id=22046

Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 13:30 GMT (UK)
Erato

Thank you for that webpage. It has allowed me to find a similar one for Chile.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 13:35 GMT (UK)
Sorry.  I assumed he had died in Argentina since the daughter was born in Chubut.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 13:56 GMT (UK)
Erato

There is no need to be sorry - I probably confused you. I was appreciative of a possible Chilean lead.

In fact I have found the Chilean 'registro civil' website but do not understand all the other sections of the Argentina one that you gave to flst. All I have so far is:- 

http://www.registrocivil.cl/

Could you please explain how you got to all the other sections and why?
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 14:10 GMT (UK)
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand now.  Do you want to find a death in Argentina or in Chile?  I can help you with the Spanish.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 15:06 GMT (UK)
At the moment I am trying to find a possible marriage in Chile. I think one of my British great aunts could have married in Chile when she went to stay with my British grandfather who was a doctor there.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 15:50 GMT (UK)
Well, it is possible to request certificates electronically but you have to know the RUN number of one of the parties involved in a marriage.  Presumably this is some unique identity number given to citizens by the Registro Civil.  I am assuming you do not have such information.

Therefor, I think that you will probably have to write to the Chilean Registro Civil for help or, if you are located near a Chilean embassy or consulate, make an enquiry there.  The Registro Civil will no doubt have someone in the office who could deal with a letter written in English.  On the top line of the home page there is a clickable link [Contáctenos] which will take you to a form where you can write an email to them.  Fill in:

Nombres [First and middle name]
Apellido paterno [Surname]
Apellido materno [Mother’s Surname]
Dirección [Address]
Región de Residencia [choose residente en el extranjero]
Comuna [skip this]
Telephone and cellular numbers [probably not necessary]
Email address
Tipo de contacto [choose consulta]
Asunto [choose matrinonio]
Mensaje [ask your question here]

Click Enviar to send.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 16:04 GMT (UK)
What a wonderful amount of information - thank you so much. I think I shall start with the Chilean Embassy in London and then take it from there.
I am in the UK and wonder if there is anything here I can help you with?
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 16:15 GMT (UK)

I am in the UK and wonder if there is anything here I can help you with?


Hmm ..... let me think about that.  I could probably come up with something.  Where are you located?
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Saturday 31 January 09 16:32 GMT (UK)

The borders of Essex and Hertfordshire so please let me know if that helps.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Saturday 31 January 09 17:01 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for your help.
Erato,I think you may have confused VillageDuckpond's comment as mine!It is definately Argentinian death records that I'm interested in.I checked out the website but as it's in Spanish I've been unable to send an enquiry.Can you assist me please?
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Saturday 31 January 09 21:13 GMT (UK)
Sorry, fist, you’re right.  I wasn’t paying attention; thought it was all the same request.

The situation in Argentina is similar.  You can obtain birth, marriage and death certificates electronically but only if you have a considerable amount of specific information including the volume and page number of the document that you require.  If you do not have this information, it says that you must personally go to one of the offices and request a search for the document for which there is an additional fee.

So, as in the case of Chile, it seems you will have to try the embassy or consulate or send an enquiry to the Argentinian Registro Civil.  On the home page of the Registro Civil web site there is a link in the left hand column to send them an email [mail de consulta].  Here there is a form to fill out:

Nombre [name]
Apellido [surname]
Dirección [address]
Tipo de consulta [choose otra consulta]
Ciudad [city where you live]
Provincia [I guess you should leave this blank]
Código Postal [postal code]
Teléfono [telephone number]
Email address

Enter your question in the box and click enviar to send.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Saturday 31 January 09 22:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the information Erato! I'll send an email with my enquiry.
Regards,
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: retiredlancslad on Sunday 01 February 09 09:58 GMT (UK)
Hi this is fascinating. Does any one have information on Peru? I am trying to find marriages. births and deaths after about 1920.

Many thanks
John
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: VillageDuckpond on Sunday 01 February 09 10:54 GMT (UK)
John

I have just done a google and come up with something called RENIEC (English equivalent being National Registry for Peru etc). If you ask it to be translated you may find it helpful and go from there.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Sunday 01 February 09 12:59 GMT (UK)
RENIEC – Registro Nacional de Identidad y Estado Civil

This looks like another case where you have to write to the agency for information because to get anywhere in their web site you have to enter your Peruvian id number.  On the home page, click on the first square box on the left [portal institucional], then, in the top line of the next page click on “consultas RENIEC.”  This brings up a page where you can send them an email. 

Asunto [I think you should choose registros civiles]
Write your question in the box
Nombre y apellido [name and surname]
Email address
Doc de identidad [skip this]
Teléfono [phone number]

Click enviar to send.

Hopefully, this will work without including an identity document number.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Sunday 01 February 09 21:40 GMT (UK)
Births, marriages and deaths registered in Lima, Perú, 1874-1930 can be found at the FamilySearch Pilot site:

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#w=;p=2;c=1439836;t=browsable
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Monday 23 March 09 13:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Erato, I am wondering if I should've received a reply/acknowledgement of the email I sent on February 1st to the Argentinian Registro Civil? Does it usually take this long?Should I try & send an email to the embassy or consulate?If so can you tell me how to contact them? Thanks for your help!
flst       
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Monday 23 March 09 14:07 GMT (UK)
I have no experience whatsoever with the Argentine bureaucracy.  I think that by now you should have received a reply.  I would send a repeat email to the Registro Civil and, meanwhile, make contact with the embassy or a consulate.  Presumably, the embassy is in London; they may have one or more consulates or honorary consuls located in major cities around the UK.  The embassy has an English language website with an email address:

http://www.argentine-embassy-uk.org/version%20ingles/embassy.html
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Sunday 17 March 13 18:38 GMT (UK)
A very belated update, to tell you that I got a reply, from the British Embassy in Buenos Aires, stating they did not have the information I required:(
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: Erato on Sunday 17 March 13 19:05 GMT (UK)
Sorry to hear that.  I don't know how you should proceed.  I recall that I have seen posts on RootsChat from people in Argentina.  I don't know if they are still active and don't remember their names.  Maybe you can track one of them down and ask for help in exchange for giving help with their British queries.

I've always thought it would be useful for RC to maintain a list of people willing to undertake inquiries in specific locations, especially out-of-the-way 'exotic' places.  Out-of-the-way and exotic are, of course, a matter perspective; Scotland fits the bill for me.  Ecuador has only come up once and I did make an effort to find a record of someone's death here but was unsuccessful in locating any information.
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: hazlaird on Thursday 01 January 15 19:03 GMT (UK)
James Campbell Stephen,born 25/9/1871,in Aberdeenshire Scotland,sailed to Punta Arenas in 1897.Mary Ann Stephen followed in 1908.They were married in Punta Arenas on 9th October 1908.James's residence is given as Delgada,Patagonia.Their only child,Margaret Stephen was born on 8/10/1910 in Gaiman,Chubut,Argentina.James was a shepherd & died when Margaret was one year old.Mary returned to Strichen,Aberdeenshire with her daughter.Sadly Mary died when Margaret was only 5 years old,& is buried in Strichen graveyard.An inscription on the headstone gives the details (as above) of James's death,although his middle name is wrongly transcribed.I have read books,checked out websites on Patagonia etc. & searched scotlandspeople & English records,overseas deaths,consular returns etc, but cannot find his death recorded.I cannot find S.American newspapers around that period which may have reported his death. What should I do next?
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: hazlaird on Thursday 01 January 15 19:07 GMT (UK)
I have just found this web site while looking for information re Mary Ann Stephen.  I believe my husband is a far off relative of Mary Ann and would like to know what happened to Margaret her daughter.  Last record was with her grandmother in Clifton Road Aberdeen.  Do you have any further information?
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Friday 02 January 15 19:03 GMT (UK)
Indeed I have more information on Margaret.She graduated from Aberdeen University in 1932. She boarded with a Mr. & Mrs. Joss, Smiddy Croft, Leslie, while she was teaching at Leslie School 1936 - 1946. She also taught at Oyne School 1946 - 1950. In December 1950 she married George Skinner, an Insurance Inspector, who resided at the Congregational Manse, Kirkwall. George's brother was a minister. Margaret's address was Ivy Cottage, Oyne. I believe they lived in Buckie after their marriage. Margaret died in May 1977 at 2 Highfield Road, Buckie. George died in November 1988. His brother Sylvester Skinner was the informant in both instances. I would be interested to hear of how your husband connects with this family.
Regards,
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: hazlaird on Friday 02 January 15 21:41 GMT (UK)
My name is Hazel Laird and I write on behalf of my husband Gordon Laird.  I would like to thank you very much for this information and am delighted that I found this web site purely by accident.  After a long time trying to find the family history of what happened to Margaret another piece has been found in my jigsaw.  My husbands grandfather was born in Tingwall Shetland in 1898, John William Booth(illegitimate) Mother Lizza Booth.  He was raised by John Stephen and Margaret Stephen, parents of Mary Ann Stephen as their nephew but named them as his parents in all official documents i.e. Wedding certificate and death certificate.  John Stephen (shepherd) had 2 brothers Alexander and William and I believe that William was probably the father of my grandfather but he was already married when my grandfather was born.

My grandfather married Eliza Jane Watson Harrison and they had 2 children Jane Margaret Stephen (my mother) and Bunty Stephen.  John William Stephen died 1920 at the age of 32.

If you have anymore information re this side of the family I would be very interested.

Thanks again
Hazel
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: BrianEwen on Thursday 11 January 24 20:39 GMT (UK)
To Hazel Laird, and Flst

Was doing an online search on Margaret Stephen, and this thread popped up.

I know the thread is a few years old, but I was wondering if you were still looking for information on Margaret Stephen?

Thanks.
Brian



Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Tuesday 16 January 24 21:15 GMT (UK)
Hi and welcome to rootschat! Yes, this post is years old but I have not managed to find out what happened to Margaret's father! Any information you can add to this post will be appreciated. Are you connected to Margaret?
regards,
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: BrianEwen on Tuesday 16 January 24 21:38 GMT (UK)
flst
Thanks for the reply.
The story is, that I have been helping my 87 year old stepmother setting up a family tree, and she pulled out a box of old photos so I could scan and add to the tree.
Also in this box is a photo album of Margaret Stephens, that are of her time at Leslie, Oyne, and Lonmay where my stepmother grew up.
My stepmother asked if I could look into Margaret Stephen, as to why she used to visit her family so much when she was growing up, was there a chance she was related to them?
I have found no proof of this at all, but of course I was able to pass on her marriage, death etc.
So, to answer your question, sorry no I can not add anything on her Father, apart from the gravestone photo in the album, and that he died "in S. America 09/10/11 aged 40.
But I do have quite a few photos of Margaret Stephen, including a few school photos (probably Oyne School) with names included, and no idea what to do with them really.
Regards
Brian
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: flst on Wednesday 28 May 25 16:28 BST (UK)
Hi BrianEwen, it's been a while since you mentioned that you were interested in Margaret Stephen. I have just remembered that another person in my husband's Stephen line had been in touch with Margaret's brother in  law, Sylvester Skinner. He showed her a photo album he had of Margaret's. I wonder if it was the same one? Can you tell me the name of the family that kept in touch with her or have you already found the connection?
Regards,
flst
Title: Re: Death in South America - help me please!
Post by: BrianEwen on Wednesday 28 May 25 16:46 BST (UK)
Hi flst

Possibly is the same one.

My Stepmothers name is Elma (Elizabeth Margaret) Scott (nee Smith)

She grew up in the Lonmay area, where her Mother was a lady in waiting to Lady Southesk.

Regards
Brian