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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Jamys on Tuesday 04 November 08 09:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello All
I've been told that there is a cast iron "slab" in the floor outside St. Leonards in Bilston and "J? Winsper" is stamped into it.
If anyone happens to be passing this way, could they possibly look down and confirm this info for me please? Winspers are in my family tree and I've hit "THE BRICK WALL"
Thanks in anticipation
Jamys
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Hiya Jamys
Yes it is there (not actually in Bilston at the mo but seen it lots of times) have you looked on FreeREG theres a lot of Bilston Winspers listed
Willow x
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Thankyou Willow
Do you know if J Winsper is the makers name or is a commemorative plaque?
FreeREG tells me that my George Winsper is the son of Joseph Winsper and Rhoda Cartwright which is what I'd been told by a distant cousin who sent me a tree that illustrates that. However, George's marriage cert says his father was Thomas Winsper. This is my brick wall, as I can't find a George son of Thomas for the dates I'm working with.
Thanks for your time.
Regards
Jamys
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Hi Jamys,
managed to get to St Leonard's this afternoon and take a picture for you. Doesn't say a great ammount unfortunately, just "J Winsper 1851" the second picture shows the location near to the Lichfield Street entrance into the churchyard. There are approx 20/30 large cast plates set into the ground, all only have the name and date of death on them .(a couple are virtualy worn smooth so illegible!
sorry cant be more help. :(
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/brightspark4/StLeonardschurchyard001.jpg)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b373/brightspark4/StLeonardschurchyard002.jpg)
feel free to ask if you wan't any more help
best wishes, Tony :)
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Thanx for saving me trip after work Tony
On FreeBMD the only death I can see for a J Winsper is a John in 1852 (maybe he died late December and was registered late)
Jamys I wonder if the registrar was having a bit of a brainstorm and put down Thomas by mistake?
Willow x
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:) No problem Willow, my pleasure :)
Jamys, i assume you know this site......
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory
if you look down at Bilston Baptisms 1813-1837 you'll see 4 children all by Joseph and Rhoda with a George born 13/4/1823, is this your George?
also if you can find out the age at death of Joseph and his approx birth year it may be possible to see if this is the one on the cast plate or the John that Willow found?
hope some of this is usefull :-\
best wishes, Tony
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Tony & Willow, thank you both so much for your time - Tony the photo's are great and yes I have scoured the Wolverhamptonhistory site, I'm surprised it's still legible!
I believe my George was born in 1823 son of Joseph & Rhoda. Joseph was the son of John Winsper who appears on the 1851 cenus age 77, so it may be he popped off later in the year (grasping at straws!), but as a coal miner, would his heirs be able to afford a cast iron plaque of that size?
Willow, a deaf registrar would explain this. George's marriage cert gives his father as Thomas Winsper and both George and Thomas are Wheelwrights. George's address is given as Price Street in Birmingham which, according to directories, was the the place to be if you were a wheelwright. I think George just didn't want to give too much away.
I'm positive that this George Winsper and his wife Sarah Adams are my g.g.grandparents - there can't be that many George Winsper and Sarah Adams marriages.
All census returns I can find them on give George's occupation as confectioner or traveller or both, quite often living in a van - this is a family foible even today. Sarah was forever cagey about her birthplace, never admitting to Birmingham where she was bapitised, but then she may never have known that.
Thanks to you both.
Cheers
Jamys
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Hi Jamys
The cast iron slabs in the pavement outside St Leonard's porch are family vault entrance covers, and the details on them are when each vault was purchased and by whom, not when that individual died. Each plate covers a flight of steps going down one side of the vault - my mother could remember standing at the top of the steps as a small child when her grandfather John Fowler was interred in the Fowler vault there in 1922.
They are no longer used now, of course, having been filled in around the 1950s, but there's an interesting write-up about them in a very good little book, 'St Leonard, Bilston: a guided history', published in 2003, which I got last time I visited Bilston.
- judijee
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Hiya Judijee
Thanx for that info I will keep my eyes open for that book - did you buy it at St Leonards?
Willow x
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Hi Willow
Yes, I'm pretty sure I got the book at St Leonard's because there's an acknowledgement at the back thanking a member of the congregation for their generosity 'in enabling the publication of this volume'.
I don't live in the west Midlands, so can only visit Bilston at odd intervals :'( but when I do I like to visit the family grave to pay my respects - and St Leonard's has a cosy little drop-in that serves a very good coffee 'n cake. Plus the churchwarden/sidesman (can't recall which) is an avid Wolves supporter, which always makes for an interesting conversation!!!
- judijee
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Hello judijee
Thankyou for the info about the slab covering the family vault - how posh is that?!!
I'd love to get my hands on a copy of the little book you mention - I wonder if the library in Bilston would have a copy for sale? I could try the St. Leonard's. I've tried Googling but nothing returns. Anyone have any ideas where I might try, other than the library?
Merry Yule to all 8)
Jamys
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Hi Jamys
As I told Willow, I'm almost 100% certain the book came from St Leonard's church. It was first published in May 2003, and printed by John Price of Bilston, and is 36 pages long. Text and photos are copyrighted to Remi Hodister. Maybe if you give the library a ring, they must surely have a copy for reference purposes and can tell you whether it's still available.
Good luck!
- judijee
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Hello judijee
I'll give the library a bell - thanks for your help.
Cheers
Jamys
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This is a possible.
GEORGE WINSPUR.
Christening, 16 NOV 1834. Saint Lawrence, Darlaston Near Wolverhampton, Stafford,
Parents,
THOMAS WINSPUR.
NANCY.
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Hello Jim
Thomas Winsper and Nancy Butler married in 1828. As my George married in 1846 I don't believe their son George is my George.
Many thanks for your time.
Regards
Jamys
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didnt know they had all those commemorative plaques on the floor there!, I ought to go and see if theres any of my family... might even finally get somewhere w my Smiths! (the line of the tree ive avoided in the main because of how difficult i know it will be w that surname!) ,my smiths were all Bilstonians as far as i know
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Hi Jamys, I don't think that this George Winsper is yours, BUT, he was a gunlock filer and I notice you had an Adams married to a Winsper who had connections with the gun trade, so I wonder if there might be a connection?
William Winsper (b1809, Darlsaton, widowed, gunlock filer. His father George Winsper also a gunlock filer, aged 55, Woods Bank, Darlaston (RG11 2817/29/6)
I have Jemima Winsper who married Samuel Higgs in 1850 at Coseley Christchurch. I think she was born in 1827 but christened in Bilston 1st Feb 1829. Her parents were William and Sarah, and the 1841 census shows Jemima aged 14 living in Highfields, Sedgley, with mother Sarah, aged 35 (born 1806), and a whole host of siblings, but no father shown. Also present was a 50 years old James Woodall and 40 year old Ann Woodall and their one year old child Martha. So I'm wondering if something had befallen William and Sarah had moved in with her brother or sister and in law. There are a number of William Winspers and so I need to work on which one now, but I wonder if there is a connection to any of your Winspers? William Winsper would be my GGG Granfather.
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Thank you for the picture of the J. Winsper family vault. I have a copy of a letter written by Mary Ann (Pollie) Pitt (1874 - 1952) to her cousin Thomas Winsper (June 7 1868 - January 30 1954) after Mary Winsper (February 13, 1811 - March 22 1895) died, along with a copy of the funeral card. The funeral card says "Mary Winsper of Bilston; Interred in the family vault, St. Leonard's, March 26." In the letter Pollie writes, "Uncle Steve, Uncle Alfred and Papa were the only mourners, and Papa said they could see your father's coffin quite plain, the brass furniture was black but the wood was good. Grandma was placed opposite him." "Your father" would have been Mary's son Thomas Winsper (July 11 1842 - 1887), so his coffin had been there about eight years. Mary was Mary Beavan, married to Thomas Winsper (1807 - 1863), and the publican of the Hen and Chickens, Green Croft. Thomas Winsper's parents were John Winsper (1775 - February 11 1853) and Sarah Smith (1773 - March 21 1853).
Does anyone know of another Winsper vault at St. Leonards? If not, then would it make sense for the family to have bought the vault two years before John and Sarah died? They were both in their eighties when they died, so it was probably not a surprise.
Thank you for any information.
Tracy T.
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I've walked through that church yard a few times and thought they were comemmorative plaques or a grave but could n't understand why only the year was put on. There are some serious size monuments in that churchyard. Some were still very readable the last time i went. My geat grandfather lived in bilston but was a stonepit miner. He died when a load of stone came down on him in sep 1861 but he's buried in a public grave in bilston cem and also a child from the marriage. I had a walk through this churchyard afterwards. Saw a load of the stone monuments, wondered whether he'd pulled some of that stone. If you google st leonards church bilston and grave vaults/stones you can see some of them and also the inside of the church. The church usually takes place in september and you can usually book a tour of the tower. Apparently st marys in bilston have some of these iron slabs.