RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: brent on Tuesday 04 November 08 03:45 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone help? I am looking for any information on Joseph William Molloy/ Tinkler/ St Clair. Born 9 Jan 1868 in Hobart Tasmania, married Elspeth Inglis Stephens. They had a son Leslie William Tinkler/ St Clair born 1893, my grandfather, I think. If anyone knows anything of any of these surnames I would love to hear from you.
Regards Lorraine
-
Hello there
I am a bit confused here do you know what the surname is please
I cannot locate the marriage in Tasmania
Jenn
-
Found this mariage in Victoria
Elspeth Inglis STEPHEN married Jos WM TINKLER
in 1890 at Port Melbourne reg no 6520
Jenn
-
As well as Leslies
These are other children to this couple
Cyril Roy Tinkler born 1895 Port Melbourn reg no 15066
Ettie Evelyn Tinkler born 1897 at Carlton W Hospital reg no 9537
Elspeth Irene born 1899 Richmond reg no 21548
Jenn
-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,153314.msg712359.html#msg712359
this link might help people trying to help
Jenn
-
Info already detailed above.
-
Cando
this thread is confusing
from the linked thread
Joseph St. Clair was born 1870 in Tasmania to William St. Clair and Sophie Giles.
I have a copy of Joseph's death certificate. He died in 1937 having been here for 40years.
So you might assume that the births to Tinkler and Stephens are not related to your searches. If he was in NZ but 1890
Jenn
-
I am wondering also Jenn....Lorraine may be able to explain when she responds :)
Cando
-
Sorry about delay but working. Your confused, same here.
This is what I have,
Leslie Wm St Clair B 1894Tas / M 5.4.1920 NZ/ D 1939 NZ
Parents: Joseph Wm St Clair B 1870Tas/ M 1893Melb/ D 1937 NZ
Elsie Stephens B 1869 / / D 1915
+Katherine Parsons B 1870NZ / M 1930 / D 1931
Joes parents: William St Clair
Sophia Giles
Have a pedigree chart with:
Michael Molloy B 1812Ireland/ M 1851Tas/ D 1870Tas
Sophia Giles B 1831London/ " / D 1899Mel
She also M Stracran Wm Tinkler 1874Tas
Son Joseph Wm Molloy/Tinkler/St ClairB 9.01.1868Tas M 1890Fitzroy
Elspeth Inglis Stephens B 21.05.1869/ D 29.07.1915
Their son Leslie Wm Tickler/St Clair B 1893Sandridge Victoria.
Confused >:( Me too.
Regards Lorraine
-
Now do you have the mariage and or the death certificate for William St Clair.
Does this have his parents details.
How did you go from St, Clair to Molloy
Jenn
-
No, I'm afraid not. I have Joseph's death cert and Leslie's marriage and death.
I came across the Molloy/Tinkler/St Clair while doing a search on www.familysearch.org.
Just all seemed so close to the St Clair's in my tree.
Lorraine
-
Leslie's marriage and death.
so what did these two certificates you have
give you for information of parentage.
You have done a huge leap from what you have and know to what somelse has on a tree with names tha might link in.
Jenn
-
Leslie's marriage and death cert's say his parents were Joseph William St Clair and Elsie nee Stephens, and that Joe was a furniture manufacturer.
Lorraine
-
Okay so Did it say where
A Joseph was born
b Elsie was born
do you know where they were married
Do you know where Joseph died and when
Jenn
-
Joseph was born in Hobart Tasmania, and died at Wellington Hospital NZ on the 7/08/1937. They were married in Melborne Victoria.
Lorraine
-
So you think that he changed his name from Tinkle to St Clair in New Zealand
what about the two girl siblings born in Australia after the time he alledgely went to NZ
Ettie Evelyn Tinkler born 1897 at Carlton W Hospital reg no 9537
Elspeth Irene born 1899 Richmond reg no 21548
A copy of the ceritifacte of the wedding can be download from the Victorian BDM website.
-
No, cause on the pedigree chart I have it names him as Joe Wm Molloy/Tinkler/StClair. I wonder if Sophia who married 1st Michael Molloy, 2nd Stracran Tinkler, had anything to do with William St Clair of Hobart Tasmania??
Lorraine
-
where did you get the pedigree chart from
-
From www.familysearch.org. Leslie had a sister Hetty born 1897 in Melbourne came to NZ around 1924, I have her death cert also. Parents Joseph and Elsie. She first married at 20 in Australia but doesn't name her first husband.
Lorraine
-
Leslie had a sister Hetty born 1897 in Melbourne came to NZ around 1924, I have her death cert also. Parents Joseph and Elsie. She first married at 20 in Australia but doesn't name her first husband.
So you think that he changed his name from Tinkler to St Clair in New Zealand
Ettie Evelyn Tinkler born 1897 at Carlton W Hospital reg no 9537
Elspeth Irene born 1899 Richmond reg no 21548
From the Victorian BDM
Elspeth Rena StCLAIR (possibly Elspeth Irene?)
married Sydney Herbert ROGERS 1917
Can't see any marriage in Victoria for Hetty/Ettie :-\
Raylen
-
Rena Elspeth ROGERS died aged 69 in 1967 at Alex reg no 11811
fathe Joseph St. Clair mother Elspeth Stephen
this matches the birth but I think you really need to purchase a certificate to further your cause
Jenn
-
Have been on the Victorian BDM site but had no luck with a marriage cert.
I am going to write to the submitter for the individual record in familysearch.
See where that gets me.
Lorraine.
-
Brent ....do we actually have the births details of two different people ie Joseph William TINKLER and Joseph Walter ST CLAIR
From family search
ST CLAIR Joseph Walter
Birth 30 Oct 1876 Auckland, New Zealand
Father George St Clair
Mother Bridget
and
TINKLER Joseph William born Tasmania with parents William ST CLAIR and Sophie GILES ???
You really need to follow tropicalj's advice and download the marriage certificate of Joseph TINKLER and Elspeth STEPHENS.
The only STEPHEN/S birth in 1869
STEPHEN Elsie
Father Charles Patrick
Mother Mary Ann BERGIN
Birth Place SANDRIDGE 1869 Reg# 11465
I wonder if Sophia who married 1st Michael Molloy, 2nd Stracran Tinkler, had anything to do with William St Clair of Hobart Tasmania??
This may also be a useful death certificate even though no parents' names are known, it should detail her marriages and children of same.
TINKLER Sophia
Father Unknown Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
68 years Death place Melbourne East 1899 Reg# 6652
Cando
-
Have you this death cert
ST CLAIR Elsie
Father Stephens Chas Patk
Mother Mary Ann BERGIN
46 years At Hotham East 1915 Reg# 9570
Wonder where the Elspeth Inglis came from?
Do you know when your Joseph moved to New Zealand?
Elsie is the only ST CLAIR at the following addresses on the electoral roll in Victoria.
Australian Electoral Roll 1900 - 1936
1909
ST CLAIR Elsie 62 Jeffcott Street, Melbourne Housemaid
1914
ST CLAIR Elsie 625 Lonsdale Street, Melbourne Lodging Housekeeper
and she moved to
ST CLAIR Elsie 190 Albert Street East Brunswick Home duties
Looks as though they had separated by 1909.
Cando
-
Cando I don't think this one is related (but then you never know)
the mother was Elspeth Inglis Stephens
Jenn
-
Elspeth Inglis Stephens B 21.05.1869/ D 29.07.1915
The only STEPHEN/S birth in 1869
STEPHEN Elsie
Father Charles Patrick
Mother Mary Ann BERGIN
Birth Place SANDRIDGE 1869 Reg# 11465
The children would not be old enough in 1909 to be on the Electoral Roll.
The TINKLER/STEPHEN marriage cert is certainly essential to move ahead with this family.
I have run out of steam with this one ;D ;D
Cheers
Cando
-
Very interesting Cando
a tangled web to be sure ::) ::)
Jenn
-
Thanks for your interest, I don't have any cert's for Elsie Stephens. On Joseph St Clair's death cert it says he died on the 07/08/1937, and had been in NZ 40years, so that would have been around 1897 he came over.
Lorraine
-
Just been on Victorian BDM again but there are no cert's for Joseph Tinkler or Elspeth Stephens marriage birth or death. Nothing for Sophia Tinkler death either.
A very tangled web.
Lorraine
-
Found this mariage in Victoria
Elspeth Inglis STEPHEN married Jos WM TINKLER
in 1890 at Port Melbourne reg no 6520 Jenn
TINKLER Sophia
Father Unknown Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
68 years Death place Melbourne East 1899 Reg# 6652
Cando
Hi Lorraine,
If you use the registration numbers given for the Sophia Tinkler death
and the Elspeth Stephen (note - 's' on Stephen :)) as quoted above by
Jenn and cando you will go to a page where you place the order for the
certificates. You then use the good old credit card to pay and print the
certificates off on your computer straight away.
If you need anymore help.........just yell. There is always someone here to help.
Raylen
-
This is all new to me, but will give it another go using the reg numbers. Yeah I've been using the card.
Lorraine
-
Thanks for your interest, I don't have any cert's for Elsie Stephens. On Joseph St Clair's death cert it says he died on the 07/08/1937, and had been in NZ 40years, so that would have been around 1897 he came over.
Lorraine
Mmmm....well if the informant's knowledge was accurate that makes me wonder if he was the childrens' father.
I note that the submitter of information on familysearch may be a descendant of Rena Elspeth ROGERS nee TINKLER/ST CLAIR.
Have you made contact with the submitter?
Cando
-
No not yet, I only have her address so am going to write to her. Have a copy of Sophia's death cert being posted to me, but that will probably take a week or so, through Victorian BDM.
Lorraine
-
I am wanting to contact any descendants of Joseph William Tinkler married Elspeth Inglis Stephen July 30 , 1890, children Leslie William, Cyril Roy, Ettie and Elspeth Irene all born in the 1890's.Perhaps born in Australia.
-
Hi Beverley, I'm Lorraine Davidson(nee St Clair). This what I know so far.
MICHAEL MOLLOY b1812 Castlecomer,Kilkenny,Ireland. Transported to Tasmania aboard convict ship Gilmore 1832.
SOPHIA GILES b1826 England. Transported to Tasmania aboard convict ship Garland Grove leaving Woolwich London 02/10/1842, arriving Tasmania 20/01/1843. My gg grandparents.
1849 a daughter Henrietta Giles born to Sophia at Ross Female Factory Tasmania, no father recorded.
1850 24th Dec convicts permission to marry.
1851 13th Jan Sophia married Michael Molloy at St Lukes Campbell Town in the parish church,Michael 36yrs constable, Sophia 25yrs house servant.
Children born to them, 1853 Catherine, 1854 Ellen, 1858 Michael died 1859 convulsions, 1860 Unnamed died 1860, 1861 Sophia died 1863 diarrhoea, 1864 John, 1865 William died 1865 convulsions, 1868 JOSEPH WILLIAM, 1870 Arthur Thomas.
Michael Molloy died 16/06/1870, 5 weeks before Arthur was born.
Sophia moved to Victoria and in 1874 married Strachan William Tinkler. Her children JOSEPH and Arthur took the name Tinkler, and daughters Henrietta, Catherine and Ellen kept Molloy.
JOSEPH WILLIAM TINKLER married Elspeth(Elsie) Inglis Stephen in Victoria 1890, they had 4 children. LESLIE WILLIAM 1893, Cyril Roy 1895, Ettie Evelyn 1897 and Elspeth Irene 1899.
Between 1900 & 1903 the family changed their surname to St Clair. Reason unknown.
Shortly after JOSEPH and Elsie separated but did not divorce. JOSEPH came to New Zealand between 1903 & 1917. Two of his children followed LESLIE WILLIAM & Ettie. Elsie stayed in Victoria with her other children.
JOSEPH remarried, although he wasn't divorced, Kathleen(Kate) Parsons in 1930. I have found their graves.
LESLIE WILLIAM married Elsie Mary Edlin on the 05/04/1920, they had 5 children, twins Phyllis Joan & Mavis Gwen. KEITH WILLIAM,
-
cont'd: Roy & Ray.
My dad was KEITH WILLIAM.
This has taken me years as I was looking for St Clair's, and was not getting anywhere.
Had a lot of help from Leigh who's in Australia.
Where are you and where do you fit in this puzzle.
Regards Lorraine.
-
Posted on behalf of Beverley who sent the following message to me in error. To reply to topics you need to login RootsChat and then click on the blue reply button that appears just below the last reply.
I am not connected to the family but have in my possession a beautiful leather bound with metal clasp Bible. I intended to sell it to a dealer and he suggested I try to contact the family first . It has all the entries in it of the marriage and then the children born and Dates of birth of the TINKLER children.
-
Hi Beverley, I sent a message a couple of weeks ago, but haven't heard back. I am really interested in the bible. Let's know what your thought's are. Regards Lorraine.
-
Hi Beverley, so interested in the bible. Lets know what you think.
Regards Lorraine.
-
Hi Beverley, I'm really interested in the bible. Could you please let me know your thought's.
Regards Lorraine
-
Hi Beverley, could you please get back to re the bible. Really interested in purchasing it if possible.
Regards Lorraine.
-
Dear Lorraine, Sorry I have not been back to you, wondering where you are located. Please send me your details and maybe email address which is then easy for me to communicate with you and make arrangements etc . Regards Beverley