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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: ali607 on Tuesday 28 October 08 11:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I have just received my estranged grandads royal navy service records but I don't know what a fair few of the abbreviations mean. I have no experience with this kind of record - can anyone help?!
1) First of all, what is a Victual record - as in 'Pay and Victual record'
2) Under Able Seaman it says HSD?
3) It says he was released in Class A - what's this?
4) Under his trade or occupation it states 'shop boy' - was this before he joined up or what he did whilst in Navy...I know for sure that he ended up being a dental mechanic.
5) In the list of ships that he served on - some have a second ship in brackets - is this a ship which he was lent by?
6) Under rating it says: Ord. Smn.?
7) Rating: S.D HSD (DEMS)?
8) Under badges it looks like S1 (the colum is headed G.D or R...can someone explain this please?
9) What does non-substantive mean...this table has his rating entered in it?
10) Any idea what a $ sign means - its not used in context of money...
10) the abbreviation F.E is entered under the date on the personal description table....Any ides
Many thanks for any suggestions!
Alison
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Alison I can answer a couple of your queries
3) I think this means his health was class a - usually this is done on starting in forces and at release.
4) Shop Boy would be his job before he joined
6) means Ordinary Seaman
Hope this helps
Christine
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Can you attach the record itself (if it's one you've downloaded from TNA)?
Some of these it would help if we saw in context on the original.
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2) Higher Submarine Detection ?
3) Is this at the end of his record? Could be released to class A of the Royal Fleet Reserve (though I forget exactly what that means)
4) yep, occupation before he joined
5) can you tell us what they are?
6) Yep, Ordinary Seaman
7) HSD see above. DEMS = Defensively Equipped Merchant Ships
9) non-substantive rank is his trade or specialty if you like. For example, leading seaman, leading stoker, leading telegraphist, leading cook, leading signalman etc are all the same rank but different non-substantive ranks.
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SD = submarine detector (Someone who worked on ASDIC anti-submarine system)
HSD = higher submarine detector (the next grade up - is usually the senior member of the ASDIC team)
DEMS = Defence Equipped Merchant Ships (unusual to find an ASDIC operator on such a ship)
K
EDIT Neil beat me to it
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thanks for all your answers!
some of the ships with another ship in brackets are as follows:
osprey (wolfhound)
Vernon (Whirlwind)
Pembroke 4 (Florentine)
Pembroke 4 (mendip)
i will try to post image after iv had my tea!
many thanks
Alison
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Osprey, Vernon and Pembroke 4 were shore establishments. The names i brackets were destroyers, except Florentine, which I can't find.
Destroyers provided anti-sub cover, so fits with an ASDIC operator. Seems likely the shore establishments named were home bases for th ships
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Hi, Did you ever solve the Badges G.D or R issue?
I had some help from facebook forum (so thought I'd add detail....)
The G badge is a good conduct stripe (G= Good, D= detention R=Run
Other odd terms terms clarrified:
TB meaning Training Battallion
SC ships company
DD Discharged Dead
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In the RAF substantive means you are paid for your rank, un or non substantive means you have been given the rank but are not yet paid for that rank. It's the difference between permanent and temporary rank.
It's sometimes used when someone needs authority but is not due a promotion.e.g. a newly trained policeman in the RAF would be a corporal but only paid as a leading aircraftman and would need to be a senior aircraftman before he could attain the rank of corporal and be paid for the rank. A policeman needs authority so he has the authority of a corporal.
Your grandfather may have been the senior or most capable person in his dept. and it needed someone with authority to manage the dept. therefore he was given a temporary higher rank.
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Well this thread is 10 years old :)
Hi, Did you ever solve the Badges G.D or R issue?
I had some help from facebook forum (so thought I'd add detail....)
The G badge is a good conduct stripe (G= Good, D= detention R=Run
That is not correct I am afraid.
The letters referring to the Good Conduct Badges are as follows:
G = Granted. D = Deprived. R = Restored.
Some other replies on this thread are literally just a punt and are also incorrect.
Regards
Hugh
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Thanks HMAC,
I was on a facebook forum 'HMS Dolphin', though it was a qualified answer, this makes more sense!
thankyou
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Hi,
I have the records of 2 uncles who were in the Royal Marines during WW2. One uncle was awarded something called a wounds certificate, could somebody please explain what this might have been? Is there any way that I might be able to see a copy? He was on HMS Southampton when it sank in Jan 1941, but I can't find anything on his record to say he was wounded or what severity of the wound he had apart from this mention of a wounds certificate. Family legend has it that he had embedded shrapnel wounds which led to his death in 1967 when they moved around, but I don't know how true that was.
My other uncle left the Royal Marines during the war in 1942 and his record has the following abbreviation B.P.S.R.M as the cause of his discharge. I'm confused as to why he might have left while the war was still ongoing?
Any information regarding these queries would be most appreciated.
Regards
Sherry Davis
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Hi,
I am sure you will get a better response if you are able to post a part of his record for context. Not doubting you, but it can be frustrating looking for abbreviations that actually turn out to be mistakes or typos.
Regards
Hugh