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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Fezann on Friday 24 October 08 17:53 BST (UK)

Title: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Friday 24 October 08 17:53 BST (UK)
I have visited the saxon church in Breamore where g g grandad was married in 1848 ( a very pretty place) and it got me wondering if there are any relations still in the area.
 GEORGE WELCH married Elizabeth Curtis, when she died he re married ANN HARRIS. I believe she may have been illegitimate since, on the marriage cert, her father is given as JOHN PHILIPS, occupation gamekeeper. George had several children Harriet, from his marriage to Elizabeth and George, Eliza, Ann,William, Albert, Thomas, Emily and Sophia from his second marriage.
George, my g grandad moved to Derbyshire so I know little about his siblings.
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Friday 24 October 08 18:34 BST (UK)


Hello Fezann  :)

Are you wanting us to see whether we can trace the families of the other children - ie: Harriet, Eilza, Ann, William, Albert, Thomas, Emily and Sophia ?

If so - can you tell us what you know about them so far - which censuses you have them in ? Dates and places of  birth ?
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Friday 24 October 08 19:25 BST (UK)
Yes , it would be great to know if they stayed in the area. I have them on the 1861 census at home  After this I have some possible census matches and marriages but as I don't have the certificates  these can only be guesses.
Albert born 1851 spelt Welsh on 1871 census apprentice blacksmith may have married in Woolwich 1873 Mary Ann Godfrey.William 1845 married Mary (don't know surname)in Fordingbridge 1865.
Approx birth dates Harriet 1841,Eliza1844,Ann1845,William1847,Thomas1852,Emily1858 and Sophia1864
I don't expect others to do all the work for me, only if someone already has George included in their tree it could save a lot of time.
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Friday 24 October 08 22:18 BST (UK)


Hello Fezann

Well - they hid well for about 20 years, didn't they  ;D

I have now managed to pinpoint Albert, Thomas and William - with wives and children - in 1891, so far.

Do you want me to post full details, or just the census refs. so you can look them up yourself ?   It's entirely up to you   :D
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Monday 27 October 08 13:59 GMT (UK)
Good Afternoon Mum44,
Thanks for the speedy reply, if you could post full census details that would be great. It will save me a trip to the library.
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 27 October 08 15:46 GMT (UK)


OK  -  William

You had his marriage in 1865 to Mary Wheatley or Mary Ann Dedman.
It was Mary Wheatley.  She appears on every census as b. 1844 Rockbourne, and therefore has to be Wheatley since there is no Mary Dedman with that profile.

1871
Rg10.  P. 1182  Fol. 14 Pg. 5


The Village, Damerham, Wilts

WELCH
William  Head  M  27  carter   B.  Hants, Burgate
Mary  Wife  M  27                   B.  Hants. Rockbourne
Henry W  Son  4                     B.  Wilts. Damerham
Alfread  Son  2                        B.    ~           ~


1881
RG11.  P. 1201  Fol. 56 Pg. 2


Rockbourne, Hants.

WILCH  (as written in census )
William  Head  M  38  carter  B.  Hants. Burgate
Mary  Wife  M  37                  B.  Hants. Rockbourne
Henry  Son  14  Carters boy  B.  Hants.       ~
Alfred  Son  12      ~         ~   B.  Wilts . Damerham
Albert  Visitor  6                     B. Hants.  Rockbourne  (Don't know whose he was!)

1891
RG12.  P. 909  Fol. 125  Pg. 1


Rockbourne, Hants

WELCH
William  Head  M  48  Carter  B.  Hants  Burgate
Mary  Wife  M  47                   B. Hants.  Rockbourne
Henry  Son  Un  24  carter     B.  Wilts.  Damerham
Alfred  Son  Un  22     ~                 ~            ~

Henry married Q4. 1891 Fordingbridge to Emily Jane Gray
I can't see either of them in 1901.

Alfred married Q1. 1891 Fordingbridge to Florence Annie Case.
In 1901 they are living in Eling, with an 8 year old daughter Florence, born Fordingbrige

I can't see either of the parents in 1901 and the only death for William is a possible William Edward b. 1849 died 1895 Fordingbridge
Mary died in Fordingbridge district in 1906.
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 27 October 08 16:53 GMT (UK)
ALBERT

This I'm a little less sure of - see what you think  :-\

He was an apprentice blacksmith in 1871.

Based on that, and the fact that there didn't seem to be any other Albert Welsh born 1852 - ish in Hampshire I found a possible in 1881:

1881
RG11.  P. 743  Fol. 39  Pg. 30


2 Robert Street, Woolwich

Henry May  Head  Wid  68  Pensioner from Army B.  Somt. Bath
Albert Welch  Visitor  M  30  farrier in Dockyard   B.  Hants. Christchurch
Mary A   ~        ~  wife  M  30                               B. London St. Lukes
Albert H    ~    Son  7                                           B.      ~           ~
Mary A  Dau  3                                                      B.  Woolwich
William C  Son  2                                                   B.      ~

His age is right, the county is right and the occupation fits - it's just the place of birth which isn't quite.

However, the same family in 1891 :

1891
RG12  P. 527  Fol. 7  Pg. 5


26 Charlotte Street, Charlton, London

WELSH
Albert  Head  M  39  Labourer  B.  Hants  Fordingbridge
Mary A  Wife  M  39                  B.  London City Road
William C  Son  12  Scholar      B.  Kent, Woolwich
Ethel A M  Dau  9       ~           B.  Kent, Charlton
John  Son  5              ~           B.    ~           ~

and then in 1901:

1901
RG13. P. 458  Fol. 50 Pg. 6


19 Lower Woolwich Rd, Woodville, London

WELSH
Albert  Head  M  49  Blacksmith  B.  Hants.  Broksht (?)
Mary A  Wife  M  49                     B.  London, Paddington

No children at home.  I wonder if that odd place of  birth might stand for Brockenhurst ?  But that's quite a way from Fordingbridge   ???  :-\   Or maybe his handwriting was poor and the enumerator couldn't make it out - might be Burgate in disguise?
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Monday 27 October 08 18:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks Mum 44!
You must have had a lot of practice at this!
Interesting about Alfreds marriage to  Florence Annie Case. His Great Grandfather James married a Jane or Jenny Case.
I now have quite a lot to get my teeth into. I can see that I shall be spending quite a bit of time at the library  .
It can be quite a challenge this genealogy. I am always being surprised at just how much people moved around. Until I started this I thought that they would be born, live and die in the same village.
Thanks again for your help.
Fezann
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 27 October 08 18:31 GMT (UK)


Fezann  -  hi

I'm just making Thomas presentable  -  I'll post his data shortly   ;D
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 27 October 08 18:55 GMT (UK)


THOMAS

In 1881 he was lodging in Ealing, London.  Age 28, working as a sawyers labourer. Place of Birth Fording Bridge (2 separate words)

1891
RG12. P 345  Fol. 32  Pg. 15


95 Waleran Buildings, Old Kent Road, Southwark

WELSH
Thomas  Head  M  38  Metal Polisher  B.  Hants, Fordingbridge
Sarah  Wife  M  37                              B. Kent, Woolwich
Lydia  Dau  7                                      B.     ~          ~
Phoebe  Dau  5                                   B.    ~            ~
Thomas  Son  3                                   B. London, Southwark
George  Son  1                                    B.    ~            ~

Thomas Welsh married Q3. 1882 Woolwich.  Sarah Clubb on same page.

1901
RG13.  P. 364  Fol. 80  Pg. 14


95 Waleran Buildings, Old Kent Road

WELSH
Thomas  Head  Wid  48  Brass Polisher  B.  Hants. Fordent Bridge
Lydia  Dau  Un  17                                  B.  Kent, Woolwich
Phoebe  Dau  15  Case machinist           B.  Southwark
Thomas  Son  13  Clerk commercial        B.     ~
George  Son  11  Scholar                       B.      ~
Grace  Dau  7          ~                            B.       ~

Sarah Welsh  died Q1. 1899 Southwark district.

I hope this helps a bit;  I'm afraid I have had no success with the girls  -  they all seem to have left home and vanished   >:(  :-\
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: suziejmartin on Saturday 14 February 09 00:13 GMT (UK)
I am related to Albert Welsh/Welch.  He is my great great Grandfather.  I have been collecting info about the Welsh family for a while and would love to share the info I have. Hope you read this

Susie Martin
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Mum44 on Saturday 14 February 09 00:32 GMT (UK)


Hello Suzie   ;)

Welcome to  Rootschat   ;D

I hope Fezann comes on line and sees your post   :D

When you have made 3 posts you will be able to send a PM to Fezann  ;)
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: suziejmartin on Saturday 14 February 09 12:49 GMT (UK)
Yes,I hope she does too.  I knew that George moved to Derbyshire and it's brilliant to find a contact

Thanks
Susie


Photo is of Whitsbury where the Welch's came from
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: moors on Saturday 14 February 09 14:00 GMT (UK)
Breamore is just up the road from Fordingbridge on the 338A road going to Salisbury, from Ringwood, Fordingbridge, Burgate, Breamore, Downton, to Salisbury, there is a "manor" house called Breamore House, Whitsby north of Fordingbridge not on 338A. Incase this helps.
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Saturday 14 February 09 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Suzie,
It is nice to meet a relative.
I confess that it is a while since I looked at the Welch family, I have been concentrating on another line but I would be happy to share any info with you that I do have once I have looked it over to refresh my memory.
I have managed to get back to Albert's Grandfather and mother James Welch and Jane Case.
Regards Ann Ferris
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: suziejmartin on Saturday 14 February 09 17:50 GMT (UK)
Hello Fezann

I'm glad you contacted the forum.  I used to be searching all the time but I guess I've gone as far back as I can!

I've searched the parish records for Whitsbury but unfortunately the rector didn't bother much with them so there are big gaps just about the time James was born!  Jane (Jenny) Case was born in Bishopstone which isn't too far away.  I visited Bishopstone years ago with my Dad.  We went there because my Dad, Peter Welsh and his two sisters were evacuated to Bishopstone during the war.  I hadn't even thought about researching family history then but it seems quite a coincidence that the Welsh kids were evacuated to the birth place of their great x3 Grandmother's birth.

My sister and I try and get away for a weekend once a year and we stay at Rockbourne.  WE've walked the route to Whitsbury and even found the cottage where Albert 1851 was born at Brookheath.  I've got lots of photos of the area that i can share if you'd like them.  I've also got many BMD certs and photos of Albert 1851 plus a copy of his apprenticeship indentures.

All the best Susie
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Saturday 14 February 09 18:43 GMT (UK)
Dear Susie,
I am so jealous! I have no old photos of any of the family so anything that you could share would be greatly appreciated. It sems that we have got to about the same place in the tree doesn't it? I found it incredibly difficult with the county boundaries moving between Hampshire and Wiltshire. Someone who was helping me did say that just because the records state that James was from Whitsbury it does not necessarily follow that he was born there , so I suppose that there is still hope.  I don't know if this will help but  one of the witnesses at the wedding of James and Jane was an Edmund Jolliffe and in 1795 a Jane Case was a witness to the marriage of Mary Case and Edmund Jolliffe at Bishopstone. Jane's parents may have been Richard and Ann Best 14/8/1768
Sometimes these odd bits of knowledge come in handy.
We drove around the area  when we went to visit the church where g grandad married , it was so strange to see the place names that up until then had meant nothing to me. What a pretty area, such a shame that they all moved away.    Fezann
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: suziejmartin on Saturday 14 February 09 19:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Fezann

I bet derbyshire is beautiful.  I haven't got all my notes  out but I seem to remember your George being a carter at Winkworth??  Were you a Welsh too?  How did you spell your name?  We always insisted it was SH but it appears that it was originally CH!

I have a lot of info on the Cases. Some emigrated to OZ.  I know that one of George's  (1815ish) sisters married into the Case family, at a guess, I think it was James Case, a cousin at any rate.  Jane, my sister, and I are going to stay in one of the lodges at Westpark Rockbourne at the end of March.  Last time we wnet,about a couple of years ago, we went to the early Church service at Whitsbury Church.  I'm not a egular church goer but it was wonderful to attend a service at the church that so many Welch's must have been to.  George's (1815) brother Charles is buried there.  I've got so much stuff I can send to you.

All the Best
Susie
Title: Re: Breamore Hampshire
Post by: Fezann on Sunday 15 February 09 18:54 GMT (UK)
Hello again Suzie,
It gets very addictive this genealogy doesn't it. I think of myself  as more a family historian because I am as interested in the off shoots on the tree as the direct  family line. I like to find the occupations and am interested in how people moved about the country.I guess that you are the same. Did you get most of your info by personally checking the Parish records?
If I am right I think that we must be 3rd cousins .
Yes ,I used to be a Welch, that is how we spelt it but pronounced Welsh.
I know what you mean about visiting the church, it gives one a wonderful feeling knowing that you are walking where your family once walked. I don't suppose they ever thought  of themselves  as so interesting that we would want to spend time finding out about them!  Regards Fezann