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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Claire Bear on Wednesday 02 February 05 10:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi, anyone got any info on a fishing family in Hastings called Mitchell? I know they lived in behind the Star in the East in Rock-a-Nore Road at the end of the 1800s. Particually I am looking at Charley Mitchell (1867) who married Lily (1877) and had children including my grandmother Mary Ann(1902) and Rose(1904). Does anyone know Lily's maiden name, she came from Bermondsey originally I think and I can find either Lily Ford, Rapkins or Schofield born at the right time but that is where I get stuck. Any info on the Mitchell family before or after this would be very interesting.
Many thanks,
Claire
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Hi Claire
I have found them in 1901 Census. They were visitors in Bexhill on Census night anyway:
Charlie Mitchell 33 Hastings, Sussex, England Visitor Bexhill Sussex
Lily Mitchell 24 Bermondsey, London, England Visitor Bexhill Sussex
Lily Mitchell 2 Hastings, Sussex, England Visitor Bexhill Sussex
Ernest Murrell 11 Eastbourne, Sussex, England Son Bexhill Sussex
James Murrell 40 Peasmarsh, Sussex, England Head Bexhill Sussex
I've included the last 2 as James was head of house.
They were living at 30, Reginald Road.in the St.Barnabas parish of Bexhill.
1871 Census when Charlie was a small boy:
Alice Mitchell 1 Hastings, Sussex, England Daughter All Saints Sussex
Charles Mitchell 3 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
Elizabeth Mitchell 13 Hastings, Sussex, England Daughter All Saints Sussex
George W Mitchell 19 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
Henry Mitchell 51 Hastings, Sussex, England Head All Saints Sussex
Henry Mitchell 27 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
James S Mitchell 9 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
John F Mitchell 11 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
Mary A Mitchell 46 Hastings, Sussex, England Wife All Saints Sussex
Mary A Mitchell 25 Hastings, Sussex, England Daughter All Saints Sussex
Robert E Mitchell 8 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
Thomas A Mitchell 5 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
William Mitchell 16 Hastings, Sussex, England Son All Saints Sussex
Rather alot of them!They were living in Bourne Walk Cottage and occupation of father was Fisherman.
1891 Census they were living at 10 St. .Johns Walk
Father and Mother with Robert, Thomas and Charles all fishermen.
However there was one in Brighton Dec.1899 when a Charles Mitchell married a Lilly Rowe(correct spelling of Lilly). I couldn't find any Hastings weddings but if it was a London wedding there were too many to look at without knowing the borough.
Hope this helps. My family wre also Hastings Fishermen Adams, so I do have earlier censuses.Obviously Charlie won't be on them but let me know if you want a check.
Regards
Gill (Clazy2000)
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thanks, that's really interesting. My mum did tell me that his name was Charley or Charlie rather than Charles but that could just be what he called himself I suppose, maybe as a baby he was named Charles, I'd have to check a birth certificate for that. Thanks for your help though, I think I might be getting hooked on this!
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Hi Claire
Yes, Charlie is short for Charles, Bill for William, Harry for Henry, Lizzie/Betsy for Elizabeth, Jim for James, Jack for John and load loads more .............
Best wishes
Casalguidi
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Oh I wasn't being thick, I realise that Charley is short for Charles but my mum was very specific that his name was Charley or Charlie rather than Charles she had always been told that that was his given name....but maybe it was just the name he chose to use and so filled in the census forms as an adult using Charley....maybe he was a bit of a rebel...or a bit of a charley :)
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Hi Claire
Gill here again.
You can't always believe what people have told you. My great gran who I knew as Rosina had no less than four variations on this, something different every census. I think (as you said)it was dependent on whoever was giving the information to the census enumerator. She was Rose when she was 3, Rosina at 13, Rosaline at 23 (and when she got married)and then back to Rosina.
That is why when I check the censuses and I can't find it under one thing I've learnt to think what else could he/she have been entered in as. Its more difficult when they suddenly decide to use a middle name or when the census enumerator completely muck-ups a surname!
It may be that Charlie's Mum thought he should be entered as Charles(posher than Charlie) and as soon as he was old enough to enter his own details he decided it was what he was known as. I also checked 'Chas' as sometimes an enumerator will use an abbreviation and it gets copied as that and completely throws it.
Hope this has been useful.
Regards
Gill (Clazy2000)
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Thanks Gill, it's confusing but very interesting. I think I might have to pop down to Hastings one weekend and have a mooch around, it'll be far more interesting to see it with what I've found out so far about where the family lived, thanks for that. I might even recognise a few names in the fishermans museum!
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Hi Claire
You remember me saying I was researching Adams family (Fishermen) well I have a book by Steve Peak 'The Fishermen of Hastings' and there is a mention of Charles Mitchell in this and its in relation to the death of one of my ancestors a Robert Adams. Basically during the 1891 Great Blizzard two boats and three lives were lost. Robert Adams drowned off the pier rocks and it is reported that his body was found the next day at St.Leonards by his friend Charles Mitchell. Charlie would have been 23 years old then, Robert Adams was 25 so it is likely that it is the correct people. Other references to Mitchells in this book are for later 20th century events except that the fishermen all had nicknames and Mitchell's one was Quiddy, so Charlie would have been Charlie 'Quiddy'Mitchell.
Just thought you might be interested.
Best Wishes
Gill
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oh right, that explains something else then, I've heard of Quiddy Mitchell but assumed that was the nickname of one person not the whole gang of them! Good job you're here, thanks for all your help and for the story...must get a copy of that book sometime :)
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I would have assumed that the nickname only applied to one person. That was certainly the case with Folkestone fishermen.
Was this custom of giving complete families the same nickname peculiar to Hastings?
Casalguidi
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Hi
Having looked closer at the reference to 'Quiddy' it may be a one off nickname. What threw me was the earlier use of 'Quid' Mitchell as well.
However other fishermen did pass certain nicknames on from father to son. Steve Peak says in his book:
'Some nicknames are alternatives to surnames...These alternatives are passed down from one generation to the next, as are substitute first names eg Weazel White'.
Some were used to identify which line of the family the fisherman belonged to such as in the case of the Adams fishermen, some were Tonser some Toller and therefore you get Tom Toller, Joey Toller etc.
But as you rightly said, most were assigned to individuals such as Ned ' Wintry' Adams because as a youngster he could identify all the stars in the winters night sky
I think when it was passed from generation to generation it was an instantaneous 'badge' saying I belong to this line of the family and this was used where the close knit fishing community inter-married.
To find out for sure whether 'Quid' or 'Quiddy' belonged to an individual or was used as a family name, The Hastings Fishermen's Protection Society would probably be able to help. If you want to delve into it that far. I had to as when researching 'Adams' there were just so many of them.
It would be interesting to see if any other fishing communities used nicknames as an indication of family lines as they did in Hastings.
Other references to this aspect appear in J. Manwaring Baines' Historic Hastings' p358 Appendix III 'Fisherman's Nicknames'
Regards
Clazy2000
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Wow Gill you certainly know your stuff! I'm impressed
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I am researching the Adams family from hastings, I do not know which branch as yet can anyone help
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To Claire Bear.
Can you tell me what interest you have in the family tree of the Mitchells of Hastings. If you are related to the Mitchells, then you are related to myself---I
am a descendant of Charles' brother, John Frederick Mitchell. His grandson,
another John, was the last family to run pleasure trips of the beach. This John
is my great grandfather. He had five son, the eldest, another John is my
mother's father.
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Hi. Sorry I'm not related to the Mitchell 's of Hastings. The Mitchell's that I have in my family tree are.
Joseph Mitchell, GG/Grandfather b c1823 Northampton, his daughter Selina Mitchell, G/Grandmother b1852 who married Edward Winter b Godalming Surry 1853.
Hope this helps
baloo
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Has anyone have any information, photograph's etc, etc on the Mitchell's who ran pleasure trips of Hastings seafront in front of the amusement arcade between the 1940s to the late 70s.
From Eagleone.
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....."Gilbert de Aquila, surnamed the Great, who flourished in the 11th century was called Gislebertus Magnus (Magnus I., the Great King of Norway & Denmark 1035-47). This name was again Latinised (transformed) into Saxonise (English) as Gilbert Michel (evolved as Michell) ; and it is remarkable that although the family (descendants of one common ancestor) of which he was head is extinct in the legitimately (the act of investing with the rights and privileges of lawful birth) from him still in existence---one for their patronymic (a name derived from that of a parent or ancestor) Eagles, from Aquila, and the other Michel, from Magnus---the one his family, the other his personal surname"....."the distinguished (famous) family of Aquila, Lord's of the Honour (a title of distinction) and Barony of Pevensey, or, as it was named after them, of the Eagle, was the source of two Sussex families of Michel (Michell, or even, Mitchell) and Eagles---Gilbert was the prevelant Christian name of the Aquila's---Michel-ham (Michel---personal surname/ham---homestead ; Michel's people living by the stream) Priory was founded by Gilbert III de Aquila"....."with respect to the presumed origin (derived from an ancestor) of the family of Michell in that that of the distinguished house of Aquila, from whom the Honor of the Eagle was named, and for some remarks upon the coat of Arms---and will therefore proceed to the evidence on which the accompanying pedigree (ancestor) is founded---of the Cuckfield Registers---and having been able to ascertain to what parish or county the family subsquently moved, I have been able to carry the pedigree further".....'the Michell's of Cuckfield, Eastbourne, Hastings & the Stammerham & Field Place Estates Michells and other's.....
Eagleone (*)
Gilbert III de Aquila (who built Michelham Priory in 1220 and granted it to the Augustinian Black Canons of the Holy Trinity of Hastings in 1229) owned Cuckfield parish in the western area of Sussex in his term of office, before his death in 1231ad---creating Sussex's Oldest Family---The Michell's.....Gilbert the 3rd is my 21st great grandfather.
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I'm hoping an attachment has worked if so it is a photo of a Quiddy Mitchell from Sussex. I have some Mitchells on my line who married into Hides from Eastbourne and came across this pic one day and saved it thinking it maybe linked to my tree but not as yet.
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Hello suepeggram
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Husbands Grandfather Frederick Mitchell & Quiddy ( Robert )were brothers.We have a picture like the one you put on here hanging on the wall.
Their Greatgreatgrandfather Thomas was born in Eastbourne and moved to Hastings.There were a lots of Mitchells born in Eastbourne & loads in Hastings.
What time period are you taking about ?
Kind regards
omega
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Hi, suepeggram (and omega 1),
Are you referring to the James Thomas Mitchell who married Rosa Hide in December 1897? In that case, I think he was the eldest son, born 1877, of James Nelson Mitchell and Sarah Ann Relf.
Mag