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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: ANGLER2 on Monday 20 October 08 21:26 BST (UK)
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I am looking for JOHN HOLDEN C1811 [MAKER UP] BORN DARWEN , POSSIBLE MOTHERS NAME BETTY. I HAVE NO OTHER DETAILS OF PARENTAGE .
I WOULD ASSUME THAT BETTY WAS ALSO FROM DARWEN AND HOPEFULLY MARRIED THERE. PRIOR TO JOHNS BIRTH . JOHN MARRIED A GIRL FROM BLACKROD NAMED HANNAH [NEE UNKNOWN],AND THEY MOVED TO SALFORD.THE FAMILY APPEAR IN THE 1841 CENSUS IN SALFORD .ALSO IN THE 1861 CENSUS [WHERE THEIR D.O.B ARE DIFFERENT ]
ANY HELP OF ASSISTANCE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
ANGLER2
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Hi Angler2
I have an extensive tree of Darwen people including many Holdens. Can you give me the 1861 reference and I will see if I have them in my tree.
Regards
OC
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thanks for your correspondencee oldcrone.all i have is ;-
1861 census salford address 11 paradise row ;-
head john holden c1805 born darwen occup maker up
wife hannah holden c1807 born blackrod
john thomas 1842 son ----[my g g grandfather]
alice daughter c1844
and john william Holton c1848 grandson --believed to be son of mary holden 1836 daughter . hope this helps??
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I know from my own experience that looking for Holdens in Blackburn and Darwen is harder than looking for a needle in a haystack (why don't we ever see haystacks any more, by the way?). They make Smiths look like a bizarrely unusual name.
I've been ploughing through various Darwen parish and non-conformist registers collecting all my families' names. I've now got probably hundreds of pages and haven't finished yet. Next stage will be to type them up into a spreadsheet, so they can be sorted.
My main Holdens (there are others who marry in too) are the ancestors/descendants of:
John Holden (c. 1836-38 - before March 1884) married Betty Duckworth (1 Feb 1840 - 20 Nov 1878) at Blackburn on 25 Sep 1858.
They had seven children:
James (c. 1859 - ?)
Jane (17 Aug 1861-10 Feb 1944) m. Henry Wild (18/5/1861-21/6/1913) 23/3/1884
Ann (c. 1865 -?) m. Henry Myers Briggs (c. 1865-?) 5/7/1885
Ellen (16 July 1868 - ?) m. David Plant (25/4/1871-?) 6 Mar 1893
Richard (22 Sep 1870 - ?), m. Maria Gibbs (c. 1871-?) 25 Apr 1891
Maria (c. 1874 - ?) m. Billy Whitehead (c. 1875-?) 9 Aug 1898
Sarah (c. 1876 -?) m. Richard Hogarth (c. 1876-?) 22/11/1899
John's father was John Holden. I think he's probably the one with wife Ann and children Mary, Richard, John, Ann on the 1851 census at Hey Fold (HO107/2261; folio 348; p. 8). I wonder if he's the John Holden who marries Ann Lomax 17/12/1827 at Blackburn according to the IGI?
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Aulus
Instead of doing a spreadsheet, I started a tree on Tribal Pages - free! - which has now grown to about 3000 names. My main interests are the descendants of Owd Timothy'o't'Looms, famous gateway Holden progenitor, but of course I have scooped up many other families too. There is hardly a family in Darwen who is not descended from Owd T.
I will have a look to see if your names are on there - I am just about to check Angler2's names too.
Olde Crone
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Yes, but if you've got a list of births and baptisms spread over say 100+ years, how are you going to sort them into family groups? All I've done is hoovered up all the Holdens, Briggs, Wilds etc in the registers: the raw data now needs making sense of!
I have to admit I'd not heard of Owd Timothy'o't'Looms and Google doesn't exactly no much about him either!
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RE HOLDEN ;-- MY BETTY HOLDEN 'S D.O.BIRTH IS C1786 SHE IS IN THE 1841 CENSUS LIVING WITH JOHN HOLDEN C1811 [HEAD ]
HANNAH C1811 [WIFE ] WITH CHILDREN ;-
CHARLES AND MARY [BOTH 1836] ELISABETH 1831 AND JAMES 1832
ALL ARE SAID TO BE BORN IN LANCASHIRE .
IN THE LATER CENSUS OF 1861 JOHN IS SAID TO BE BORN DARWEN
[SO I WAS HOPING BETTY C1786 WAS ALSO FROM THERE ] ANGLER2
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Aulus
Suggest you beg, steal or borrow a copy of the book "Darwen and Its People" by Jeremy Hunt. Long out of print, but available in Blackburn Reference Library, and also on CD.
Jeremy Hunt was a Darwen man, (18??-1887) who was obsessed with local genealogy and this book contains details of all the major family names in Darwen. The style is difficult (stream of consciousness, no punctuation, lol) but research shows this man was astonishingly accurate with regard to family details and inter-relationships going back to the early 1700s.
Another good resource is the Pole Lane Chapel Census of 1819 - about 400 family groups and lots of scurrilous detail!
Timothy Holden 1700-1792 (Owd Timothy o't'Looms) had eleven children, over 100 grand children, over 1000 great grandchildren and an ever-increasing number of great grandchildren (as relationships become clear). Timothy was almost certainly a descendant of the Manorial Holdens, but by which route is still open to debate.
I have looked at your names but cannot identify them yet. I have put them in my tree though, with a note to say you have an interest in this family.
Olde Crone
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Angler2
Sorry, I cannot identify this family either, but have put them in my tree with a note to say you have an interest.
Have you looked to see if there is a monumental inscription for this family? Sometimes it is the only way to sort the Holdens out! There may be death notices in the Darwen paper which help too.
Olde Crone
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Aulus
Suggest you beg, steal or borrow a copy of the book "Darwen and Its People" by Jeremy Hunt. Long out of print, but available in Blackburn Reference Library, and also on CD.
Jeremy Hunt was a Darwen man, (18??-1887) who was obsessed with local genealogy and this book contains details of all the major family names in Darwen.
Another good resource is the Pole Lane Chapel Census of 1819 - about 400 family groups and lots of scurrilous detail!
Thanks for that. Definitely "beg, steal or borrow" and not buy. It's listed on Amazon ... at a mere £411.25 :o :o
I came across the Pole Lane census on the microfilm of non-conformist registers at the LRO. Good stuff. But then often the non-conformist registers are so much more useful than CofE, as the non-conformists tended to put in things like dates of birth and mothers' maiden names.
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Aulus
Not sure where you are located, but I managed to borrow a copy of Jeremy Hunt's book through the inter-library lending service, before I located it on CD.
I also forgot to mention an unpublished manuscript, which languishes in Blackburn Library, by "A.Dyson". He was a Darwen man who, during the 1980s, took Hunt's book and set about proving/disproving what he said.
The manuscript is a shining example of perfect research. Everything is sourced from original documents and sources are given in full. The Librarian remembered him being in the reference library day after day for several years. He then presented a copy of his manuscript to the library and was never seen again.
Incidentally, Mr Dyson only found TWO errors in Hunt's book, and both errors were the names of daughters. This is absolutely stupendous when you think Hunt carried all this information in his head - none of it was written down until he was in his eighties. Certainly changed my opinion of oral history!
Olde Crone
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I am located in yorkshire and i will have to try and arrange to borrow through the libraries borrowing service . there is no way that yorkshire will have it . thanks angler2
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HI
Does anyone have any info on Roger Holden, born Darwen 1820 ish, I believe he married Mary Haworth 25th Dec 1839, they had about 11 children.
Appreciate any help.
Regards
Chris
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He's not mentioned in Jeremy Hunt's Old Darwen Families (managed to get a copy off the internet, thanks OldCrone - an 1890s paperback reprint, which I've been working on indexing)
What information are you looking for?
At a quick glance, I can see he and Mary are on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses. He's born c. 1821 in Lower Darwen, and living in Lower Darwen on those censuses.
1841: HO107/503; Book: 5; p. 1
Roger Holden, 20, M.S.
Mary Holden, 20, Cotton Twist Winder?
John Holden, 1
1851: HO107/2261, fol. 436, p. 11 all born Lower Darwen
Roger Holden, head, 30, Carter
Mary Holden, wife, 31, wife
John Yates Holden, son, 10, scholar
Andrew Holden, son, 7, scholar
James Holden, son, 4
Robert [L/S]ibring Holden, son, 2
Jane Holden, daur, under 1 Mo
Martha Townley, Great Aunt, Widow, 75, Formerly Beer house Keeper
Edward Haworth, Brother in Law, Mar, 27, Power Loom Weaver Cotton
Margret Haworth, Sister in Law, Mar, 28, Power Loom, Weaver, born Over Darwen
1861: RG9/3111, fol. 88, p. 30
Roger Holden 40, labourer general
Mary Holden 41
John Yates Holden 20, block cutter
Andrew Holden 17, labourer general
James Holden 14, [something] tenter
Robert Sibbren Holden 12, winder cotton & scholar
Mary Jane Holden 10, do.
Edward Holden 7, Day scholar
Sarah Holden 4
Margaret Ann Holden 2
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Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find his ancestors, I have the details you posted, am looking for his parents etc.
Cannot work out where Martha Townley, Great Aunt, fits into the tree, any help appreciated.
Thanls
Chris
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You didn't say what info you wanted, nor what you already had. If you had, I could have saved myself five minutes transcribing that. >:(
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Sorry, about that, just didn't realise anyone would go to so much trouble. Thanks
CHris
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My Holden interest stems from Roger Holden's murder of 1834 at Mitton in Lancashire.
He and his wife Mary (nee Clayton) had 2 children, the son died and I am trying to trace daughter Ellen.. more particularly find out who she married.
Ellen Holden aged 8 appears in 1841 census living at Aighton Workhouse.
in 1851 she is living with
Thomas walmsley 1788 chipping Lancs
Ellen Holden servant born @ 1833 Aighton
address Aighton,Baily and Chagley
I assume she then marries as I can't find her in later censuses
Thought someone might have her in their tree.
I have all newspaper articles of murder trial and conviction of wife Mary.(Ellen's mother) I just need to find Ellen's married name.
Thank you