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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: Possum 26 on Monday 20 October 08 06:27 BST (UK)
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Hello I find that George INMON was jailed in Darlinghurst jail in Sydney in 1887 for 21 years according to the entrance paper
Is there some way i could obtain a copy of any trial doc's?
Also the paper i received does not state a release date or if indeed if he could have died in jail It would be 1907-9 if he served the full sentence
as I cant find a death record for him in the bdm's [nsw] around that time
He was also jailed in Grafton jail some 10 years earlier for non payment of debt would there also be any records I have his insolvency record he spent 3 months in Grafton
I don't know what i would need to 'google' to find out any info
regards
possum
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Hi Possum
I would send State Records NSW an email with your request & see what happens. You may have already done this but they would have the info you require.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/staterecords/contact_us_3327.asp
Regards
Boydi
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thankyou sent off an email last night
sans
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Hi "Possum"
I don't know if you are still looking for information about George Inmon. I am descended from his sister, Rachel(daughter of Edward and Mary), and I have just received information that I commissioned from the Campbelltown Historical Society (Sydney, Australia). Included is an account of the court proceedings at George's trial. He was jailed for incest on two of his daughters. My e-mail is (*) if you want to contact me. I'm not really interested in George, but I have other information about Edward and Mary you may be interested in.
"Zadar"
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Hullo possum 26. I am also a direct descendant of Mary Ann's sister 'Rachel Inmon' who married John Wilson. Today I came across a few transcripts of George's trial.
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Hi, I am descended from Rachel Inmon, and left the above post about having George's trial papers. Can you tell me how you are related? Elizabeth Allen (Wilson) was my grandmother. I am trying to find out more about John Wilson, Rachel's husband. He was (I think, the first) schoolteacher at Albion Park School in the 1870's, but was also a Methodist "Bush" Missionary, according to his death notice in the paper, and an elderly cousin , now dead. Is there anyone out there who can tell me more about John? He is proving very elusive!
Zadar
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Hullo.... Replied re John Wilson's info, however not up on chat-board? I am a direct descendant from Elizabeth's brother Joseph.
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Hi, "royalknights", sorry haven't received any information about John Wilson. would LOVE to have it?! Is there anyway I can get my e-mail address to you? I live in Canberra, so if you are not far away, my mobile number (which may be allowed though!) is 0428 414 393
Fay
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Hi Fay
You must be Emily's niece? I will call you tomorrow. I live in Nth Nowra.
Anna
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Hi Anna, Emily's cousin!
Fay
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I am researching Eliza Howarth (nee Walsh) who, I think was an Irish convict and transported to NSW. I have her marriage details and I see the witnesses at her wedding in 1851 in Sydney in the Wesleyan church (Princes Street Chapel) were Rachel and John Wilson. I would love to know if you would have any more details of the Wilsons which may enable me to trace Eliza. She could be my great, great grandmother.
Thanks, Rosalie Busch
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Dear Rosalie, how interesting! John and Rachel themselves were married in the Wesley Church, also in 1851. They were my greatgrandparents. Rachel came with her parents on the "Palmyra" in 1838 -there is a book about the journey, because 45 people died of Scarlet Fever, and an enquiry was held. Her parents were Edward and Mary Inmon, and her sisters were Maria and Mary Anne. They went into the employ of Mr Manning, I think at Camden. I have yet to establish what voyage John Wilson came to Australia on, but he was born in Tullamore, Ireland in 1823, and came here in about 1840. After marrying Rachel, they went to Sofala, where he was a goldminer, then a farmer near Bathurst.After 1864, he became a Bush Missionary in Sydney, then Town Missionary in Maitland.In 1870, he became the schoolteacher at Hexham, and remained a schoolteacher, near Goulburn, then Albion Park.He died in Sydney in 1902.don't know isf this helps, but my email is: (*). if you would like to write to me.Fay Long
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Thank you so much Fay. My interest is in John Howarth and Eliza Walsh. I have a copy of their marriage certificate and the witnesses at the marriage were John and Rachel Wilson. The marriage took place in the Wesleyan chapel in 1851 in Sydney. I am trying to ascertain if Eliza was a convict and thought that may be the case when I see her signature is marked with an X, as is Rachel's. Was the "Palmyra" a convict ship? Eliza and John, I think, are my great, great grandparents. I am very glad to have made contact with you.
Regards,
Rosalie Busch (nee Howarth)
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Hi Rosalie, no, the Plamyra was a "Bounty Immigrant" ship, I don't think there were convicts on board, although the families may have known one another before they left England. The Inmons came from Kent, and Rachel was only 4 when she arrived in Australia. I guess you have checked the NSW State records. There is only one Eliza Walsh that would fit the time frame, the other was 28 when she arrived in 1836, so would probably have been too old to bear children if she married in 1851. There are a lot of John Howarth's who would be in the age bracket. Have you looked for their death certificates? They sometimes reveal who their parents were, and how long they had been in the colony, etc. Fay
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Rosalie, you'll never believe it, but I looked up John and Eliza on Ancestry and found them, on someone's tree, and John belonged to the same regiment, the 11th Foot, as another of my G-Grandfathers, William Sivewright, and came to Australia (Tasmania)at the same time. He was born in Ireland only 3 years before John Wilson. Below is the link I found, and the extra information on ancestry includes his regiment etc:
John Howarth
Spence/Sparrow/Kendall/Peterson/Howarth/Carey/Watman Family Tree
Birth: 1820 - Wexford, Ireland
Marriage: 1851 - Sydney, NSW (New South Wales), Australia
Parents: John Shephard Howarth, Mary Pascoe
Spouse: Eliza Walsh
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Fay, you wonderful person!! I have used Ancestry in the past but found it was using up too many of my dollars. You don't know how exciting this is because John and Eliza's eldest daughter, Sarah, gave birth to my paternal grandfather illegitimately in 1879 and it has been so hard to trace beyond Sarah until I got her death certificate and found the names of her parents - John and Eliza (Sarah retained Howarth). My dad, who is no longer living, always said he didn't know about his father's family and I now know why he wouldn't devulge that information (a terrible scandal in those days).
I am so happy to be able to identify John, my great, great grandfather and yes, you are right, the Eliza who came out to NSW as a convict in 1832 would certainly have been past childbearing age if married in 1851. And how amazing that we have relatives who served in the same regiment.
I will now do some more searching and go to the link you supplied.
Thank you so very, very much.
Rosalie
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Rosalie, so glad to be of help-so many people have helped me with information (I am researching about eight families!), that it is a pleasure to find stuff for other people. I know about the illegitimate bit-my mother's father was illegitimate, and I couldn't find out about his family until after Mum died.
You might be interested to look at a site on the net, callled "Australia's Redcoat Army", as it tells the story of our 11th Regiment ancestors. They were brought out in 1845 to Tasmania, then were brought over to Sydney to quell a riot. The people of Sydney were so impressed with them, that they took up a petition to have them stay. So they stayed, and were the first regiment to occupy the Victoria Barracks when it was first built.When they were due to return to England in 1857, they were offered the opportunity to stay in Australia. 100 of them chose to stay, and your John and my William were two of the hundred. Their story has been put on the web by a descendant of one of the men. great story!Fay
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Dear Rosalie, I have looked up the Redcoats,and I may have given you the wrong information. There is certainly a Howarth who stayed in Sydney, but his name wasn't John, his wife wasn't Eliza, and he was married in 1848. This is one of the problems with Ancestry. People who are searching for ancestors, sometimes make assumptions, based on dodgy info., then post it on their Genealogy pages. Everything I find out, in my own research, is documented. The family who has posted John Howarth's stuff, has certainly put the info I said to you. Now there my be a second Howarth, who doesn't appear on the Redcoat Settler''s page, or the Redcoat person may have been given the wrong infformation, but it seems strange that the info is different. You might like to get in touch with the family and ask them. I have the same trouble with John Wilson, because on Ancestry, there are descendants who are adamant that he is a John Wilson who arrived in Adelaide in 1844, and I have done extensive research on both, and know that he is not. Such is life!Cheers, Fay
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Yes Fay, I had noticed that too when checking the Redcoats info although I found it strange that John's father's name was John Shephard Howarth and there is a Shephard Howarth mentioned. I wonder if that could be a brother of John. Anyway, at this point I am just glad to have identified John and Eliza. I have been to NSW bdm and find John died in 1862 - a year after his second child was born. No record of Eliza's death - so far. All this research can be frustrating at times but it's hard to let it go isn't it?
Rosalie
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Last word before I go to bed! The Howarth family tree on Ancestry, has John, married to Eliza, and a whole bunch of children, up to the 1870's including the two that he had with Eliza??!! No mention of a second wife! Maybe they have seriously screwed-up their information? I'm curious now! Certainly oneof the children was called Shepherd.Fay
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Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that there is a supplementary page in these Redcoats pages. Where the owner of these pages has been unable to confirm whether a soldier settled in Australia or not - he just lists them alphabetically. You can find John Howarth mentioned as being one of several soldiers who were on Garrison Duty in Australia – at the Redcoats pages at
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/h11th.htm
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Hi Zadar
I'm the owner of the Spence/Sparrow/Kendall/Peterson/Howarth/Carey/Watman Family Tree
on Ancestry.com.au Thanks for pointing Rosalie in my direction. I've replied to her message now and feel I have been able to help her to a large extent in regard to John Howarth although I know absolutely nothing about Eliza Walsh. Rosalie like a few other people had made an incorrect assumption with John Howarth's death date as 1862 - I think that a glaring problem with NSW BDM is that they don't list mother's surnames on the free online search engine. People tend to grab a date if the Christian Names are correct and in this case while the Christian names are the same as John's parents, this isn't the same John Howarth who married Eliza Walsh. John Howarth turns up in a Sands directory in 1866 and also his estranged wife has inserted an advertisement in the Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser in 1886 trying to track him down - by this time he's apparently using the assumed name of Parslow. I have to admit I am guilty of sometimes putting in some undocumented information into my tree but this is usually in an attempt to bring out someone who will dispute my facts and set me straight. I've explained in my reply to Rosalie exactly what is known and documented and what isn't. Thanks for sending Rosalie my way. Regards, Kay Spence
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Hi there,
I know John Howarth did not die in 1862. The John Howarth I am interested in is, I think my great great grandfather who married Eliza Walsh in Sydney in 1851 and were the parents of my great grandmother, Sarah Howarth, who never married but gave birth to my grandfather William George illegitimately. John and Eliza had other children, one of them being Shepherd and in some instances he seems to be known as John Shepherd. I'm wondering if that is he in the redcoats listing. I am still confused about the identity of John who married Eliza.
Rosalie
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Hi Rosalie
Sorry about the 1862 date mix up although I was commenting on something you said in this thread in your reply numbered 18 on 8th November. It was here that you said you looked up NSW BDM and found John died in 1862. I guess you have since worked out that this wasn't the same John. Re the possibility of John and Shepherd being the same person, you will see in the Redcoats web pages there were two Howarths in 11th - both Shepherd and John - so I'm pretty sure they are not one and the same, but two different individuals. Whether they're brothers or might be more difficult to prove but I'm pretty sure they were. I've found some more information on John Howarth which I think solves a couple more questions. I'll send these to you through Ancestry.com.au messages.
Cheers, Kay