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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: shirls15 on Tuesday 14 October 08 11:40 BST (UK)
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Would it be possible for me to find the marriage cert for a MESHACH MOSS even though i don't know his wifes name?
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Any further information like where and when?
It IS possible to get the index number on FreeBMD and find her name from that................. IF we are talking about the UK during the times that have been transcribed................
V
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Welcome Shirls - give us more details and should be able to help.
In the Marriage Indexes, each spouse gets an entry - sadly not till after 1911 do they x-ref the entries, so before that you either need the cert to see who married who, or search on a subsequent census and see his wife's christian name - if you're lucky ...
:)
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Looks like you're in luck if this 1912 marriage is the right one - he married:-
Marriages Sep 1912
Moss Meschak H Spouse = Wardle District - Basford vol 7b page 469 married Wardle Mary E Spouse = Moss
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okie dokie... i think he was born in 1883 as MESHACH H MOSS don't know his full middle name. He (i think, that i know of) had three children by the names of DORIS, ALAN and CLARENCE - i know for certain that CLARENCE was born on 28/10/1918 in GREASLEY, NOTTINGHAMSHIRE.
Theres not really alot more i know about him as i never even thought about asking my grandad before he died.
Hope this helps.
Shirls.
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the above marriage certainly seems correct then ?
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Oh great! it certainly does as there were births in the family registered at BASFORD too thanks... would it also be possible to find out when the other children were born aswell as MARY E WARDLE? (if that not too much to ask).
Thanks again Shirls.
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Greasly is in the BASFORD Regn District - but I cant see Clarence at the moment with a Birth Index entry
will search from 1912 with MMN = Wardle.
Do you want Meschak researched in the earlier Census years to establish his parents names etc ?
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My goodness !
Births Sep 1912
Moss John J MMN = Wardle Basford v7b p381 Twins ?
Moss May H Wardle Basford v7b p381
Births Dec 1913
Moss Doris H Wardle Basford v7b p360
Births Dec 1914
Moss Ruth H Wardle Basford 7b 394
Births Mar 1916
Moss Mary E Wardle Basford v7b p352
Births Sep 1917
Moss Mabel H Wardle Basford v7b p326
Births Sep 1922
Moss Kenneth Wardle Basford v7b p339
Births Dec 1924
Moss John J Wardle Basford v7b p322
It may well be that FreeBMD isnt complete for that District in 1918 ....
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thank you... thats confused me ???
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Yes please Newf - more details on MESHAK would be great!
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does seem a lot of kids !
and the first 2 born in the same Quarter of the yaer as the marriage ....
maybe its a coincidence and another Moss married another Wardle in the area ?
Hmmmmmmmm ....
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Also on your previous post Newf are all the births MESHAK's and MARY's children? or anyone's with the surname WARDLE?
EDIT it does seem like a lot of children... would it be possible to have adopted clarence? (i don't know if they did do adoptions then ???
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Just checked 1900 - 1920, no other Moss / Wardle marriages in Basford District on FreeBMD at least !
Might be worth checking elsewhere in case its 2 or more couples having kids in the Basford District, but married elsewhere and moved into the area ...
The index doesnt give full names of parents - and not Fathers at all.
Sorry, not up on adoptions - I dont think they got formal until the 1920s .... but someone on here will know - try a new thread to ask specifically....
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thanks for you hardwork Newf ;D
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Not all of them lived long:
Deaths September quarter 1912
MOSS John J 0 Basford 7b 142
MOSS May H 0 Basford 7b 142
There's also an infant Mary E H Moss who died Jun Q 1916 who might be the Mary E who was born that year.
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Hi all :)
Not sure if this is any use but here's Clarence's birth registration as well:
Clarence Moss, December quarter 1918, Basford registration district volume 7b page 313, mother's maiden name Wardle
:)
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Heres yer maun Meshak in the 1901 census
1901 - RG13/3145; Folio: 87; Page: 19 - Selston, near Greasley
Underwood
All children born in Selston
James H Moss 54 Head Coal Miner / Contractor (Hewer) born Notts, Underwood
Martha H Moss 56 Wife Notts, Eastwood
John H Moss 25 son Coal Miner Hewer
Meshack H Moss 18 son do
Clara H Moss 16 dau
Florence H Moss 13 dau
Ethel H Moss 11 dau
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Turning to Mary E Wardle - theres 5 Mary Wardles born in that District of Basford from 1880 to 1894
but only one with an 'E' middle name ... and of almost same age as yer maun ...
Births Jun 1884
Wardle Mary Elizabeth Basford v7b p148
sadly, she's not using a middle initial in 1901, so of 3 candidates in the area (if she was ! ) I cant be sure.
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Heres yer maun Meshak in the 1901 census
1901 - RG13/3145; Folio: 87; Page: 19 - Selston, near Greasley
Underwood
All children born in Selston
James H Moss 54 Head Coal Miner / Contractor (Hewer) born Notts, Underwood
Martha H Moss 56 Wife Notts, Eastwood
John H Moss 25 son Coal Miner Hewer
Meshack H Moss 18 son do
Clara H Moss 16 dau
Florence H Moss 13 dau
Ethel H Moss 11 dau
are they MESCHAK's brother and sisters?
and what does 'yer maun' mean? :D
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just a way of saying 'your man' in the vernacular - ie the chap you were looking for :)
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ooh i see haha
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The 'H' in Meschach's name, and the rest of his family in 1891, is probably for HOUSELY.
This is the family in 1881:
Selston, Nottinghamshire
James Housley 34 Coal miner
Martha Housley 35
Mary A. Housley 9
Ruth Housley 8
John Housley 6
James Housely 4
Mark Housley 2
Meshach Housley 8m
Class: RG11/ Piece: 3323/ Folio: 149/ Page: 33
The Meschach here died not long afterwards.
Deaths Jun quarter 1881
Moss Meshach Housley 0 Basford 7b 65
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that sthe wrong meschak then isn't it because we have marriage records for him in 1912
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It wasnt uncommon after an infant death that the next (male in this case) child would be given the same name .... :)
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true... maybe that was the case
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I think it must have been, or he wouldnt have been having all those kids ;D
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Sorry, I didn't make it clear that this isn't your Meschach - yours was born later. But it is his family.
Births are hard to find, either as Housely or Moss, but Flora at least was registered:
Births Mar Q 1887
Moss Flory Housley Basford 7b 12
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Births are hard to find, either as Housely or Moss, but Flora at least was registered:
Births Mar Q 1887
Moss Flory Housley Basford 7b 12
so who is flory? (meschaks sister?), you didn't put it on the other list ::)
and housley is being used as a surname right? was it common for them to change their surnames? or am i totally confused haha ;D
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Apologies again - I jump ahead too much :(. Newf found Meshach with his family in 1901, among them a Florence H Moss aged 13 (so born c1887).
This is the family in1891:
Class: RG12/ Piece: 2662/ Folio 112/ Page 18
Selston
James H Moss 44 Coal Miner
Martha H Moss 43
Mary A H Moss 19
Ruth H Moss 18
John H Moss 16
Mark H Moss 13
Meschach H Moss 8
Clara H Moss 6
Flora H Moss 4
Ethel H Moss 1
Kate H Moss 3m(grandaughter)
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wow breeding like rabbits... how do you actually find all this :o is it on freebmd?
plus is florence a sister to meschach too? and kate is whose exactly? or can't you tell? lol :)?
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Hi Shirl
Yes they do seem to be using Housley as their surname in 1881.
Don't know why yet though ;)
This looks like it could be James and Martha's marriage.
In Dec 1866
GREGORY Martha and HOUSLEY James in Basford ref 7b 171
I have found the other couple on that page in 1871 and so have proved that this couple did marry each other.
Now to find why they swapped from Housley to Moss ;D
Carol
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oooh... my brain is getting carried away now ;D maybe there was a murder and they changed :o *ok clear thoughts now*
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The name Mesach(or however you want to spell it) comes from Martha's family,the Gregory's.She has a brother with that name....and lots and lots of other siblings too :o
See RG9/ 2433 Folio 33 Page 6 in 1861 ;D
Do you have access to the censuses Shirl?
Carol
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erm i'm not entirelly sure ;D im quite new to this. is it online or town hall or somewhere else?
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All those Moss/ Wardle births are on Free BMD(except Clarence) ,when we talk about the censuses,it usually cos a few of us have access to them via the internet at home,sometimes on Ancestry and some of us subscribe to Find My Past(there are a few others too)
If you don't have access to them at home, then we'll know to type out what we've found in full for you.You can use a large library or record office..and the LDS centres have access to them too.
Your family seeem to have been Housely in 1881 but have changed to Moss by 1891. Why? Hmmmm......
Carol
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i see, i do have a free Ancestry account,and i know of Free BMD and Find My Past but don't have an account on it
im just looking through Ancestry to see if i find anything but i don't know how to go ahead finding parents
Thanks for your help :)
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ah, things have moved on ! Good stuff !
So Housely on marriage and in the 1881 census, but also in 1881 poor Mesach the first was registered as Moss ......
Deaths Jun quarter 1881
Moss Meshach Housley Age 0 Basford v7b p65
so where has Moss come from ?
Over to you Carol :P
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so where has Moss come from ?
Over to you Carol :P
I'm trying I'm trying (very, so says my hubby at times ;D)
I've found James Housley age 4 with mum and dad in 1851,but he ain't anywhere in 1861.............think he's the one with a Mary Ann Moss.........about to try and prove it.
Back soon.....ish
Carol
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That does look good - his Mum was Mary Ann wasnt she in 1851 (and the right age from 1851 to 61) - & given the presence of a slighly older Mark !
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Not doing too well here- can't prove anything but will give you what I've found so far.
1851 at Underwood, Nottinghamshire.
Thomas Housley 32 head frame work knitter(in cotton) b Greasley Notts
Mary Ann Housley 28 wife ditto job ditto place of birth
Ruth dau 10 b Underwood
Mark son 8 b "
James son 4 b "
HO107/2125 Folio 118 Page 13
If you have access to Ancestry,you should be able to view this page.
Back soon with 1861...
Carol
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LOL - I cant find him in 1871 either - when he should be with Martha if they married in 1866 !
Nor Mark ::)
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Here's the family that I think are correct in 1861,dad Thomas has died.
Goodness knows why they are now Moss..........was that her maiden name perhaps?
In Selston Notts.
Mary Ann Moss widowed head 39- all the family born Selston.
Mark Moss son 17 coal miner
James Moss son 14 coal miner
Thomas Moss son 7 scholar
Johnathon Moss son 5 scholar.
Looking good as Newf says- older son called Mark and 7 year old called Thomas(prob after dad)
RG9/2432 Folio 53 Page 14
Carol
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A birth of Jonathan HOUSLEY was registered in Basford district December quarter 1855 - which would correspond with Johnathan MOSS aged 5, with Mary Ann in 1861.
A death of Thomas HOUSLEY was registered in Basford district September quarter 1855 - although as age of deceased isn't given on the indexes this early it isn't definite that this is James Housley Moss's father.
I also have a feeling that Moss is Mary Ann's maiden name - she doesn't seem to have married a Mr Moss after Thomas died, (and if she did, it wouldn't explain why James started calling himself Moss ) nor does she seem to have married Thomas Housley.
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Here's the family that I think are correct in 1861,dad Thomas has died.
Goodness knows why they are now Moss..........was that her maiden name perhaps?
In Selston Notts.
Mary Ann Moss widowed head 39- all the family born Selston.
Mark Moss son 17 coal miner
James Moss son 14 coal miner
Thomas Moss son 7 scholar
Johnathon Moss son 5 scholar.
Looking good as Newf says- older son called Mark and 7 year old called Thomas(prob after dad)
RG9/2432 Folio 53 Page 14
Carol
ok been gone a little while :) is this james the james and martha james?
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Well I now have some of them in 1871 ;D
Living in Greasley Notts.
George Turner head married ,looks like his age is 72 :o Shoemaker b Notts
Mary Ann Turner wife married 49 b Notts (can't read place name)
Thomas Moss son to wife 17 coal miner b UNderwood,Selston
Johnathon Moss son to wife 15 ditto job ditto place of birth
Elizabeth Eagle servant age 9 YES NINE!!! b Nottingham.
RG10/3478 Folio 5 Page 3
But still haven't found James or Martha,if that marriage is correct?
Carol
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Here's the family that I think are correct in 1861,dad Thomas has died.
Goodness knows why they are now Moss..........was that her maiden name perhaps?
In Selston Notts.
Mary Ann Moss widowed head 39- all the family born Selston.
Mark Moss son 17 coal miner
James Moss son 14 coal miner
Thomas Moss son 7 scholar
Johnathon Moss son 5 scholar.
Looking good as Newf says- older son called Mark and 7 year old called Thomas(prob after dad)
RG9/2432 Folio 53 Page 14
Carol
ok been gone a little while :) is this james the james and martha james?
Yep ;)
Born Housley in 1847 but changed to Moss by 1861....but goodness knows where he and Martha are in 1871.
Still looking
Carol
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Thomas and Mary Houseley both age 20 are in Selston in 1841 with 11 mth old baby Ruth.
They probably married just before that.
Lets see...........
Carol
Edit- can't find them on Free BMD or the IGI.......hmm.
Looks like Ruth's birth cert or James's would be the way to go to get mum's maiden name.
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Well I now have some of them in 1871 ;D
Living in Greasley Notts.
George Turner head married ,looks like his age is 72 :o Shoemaker b Notts
Mary Ann Turner wife married 49 b Notts (can't read place name)
Thomas Moss son to wife 17 coal miner b UNderwood,Selston
Johnathon Moss son to wife 15 ditto job ditto place of birth
Elizabeth Eagle servant age 9 YES NINE!!! b Nottingham.
RG10/3478 Folio 5 Page 3
But still haven't found James or Martha,if that marriage is correct?
Carol
ok and this Mary Ann is the same one as james' mother right?
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Mary Ann Turner wife married 49 b Notts (can't read place name)
Thomas Moss son to wife 17 coal miner b UNderwood,Selston
Johnathon Moss son to wife 15 ditto job ditto place of birth
Carol
Interestingly, Mary Ann has apparently reverted to MOSS in 1881:
Jonathan Moss head 25 Coal miner born Underwood, Notts
Ada Moss wife born Hucknall Torkard, Notts
Mary A Moss daughter 18m born Hucknall Torkard, Notts
Thomas Moss son 14 days born underwood, Notts
Mary A Moss mother 60 Born Underwood, Notts
Class: RG11/ Piece: 3323/ Folio: 156/ Page: 48
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It's 1871 that Newf and I are are having trouble with ;)
Carol
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It's 1871 that Newf and I are are having trouble with ;)
Carol
ohh poop! i thought i was helping then haha
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hi,
Can I link in on this too, I am searching Housley Moss in Underwood area and am interested the the change of surname from housley to Housley moss. It does not seem to be Mary Ann's maiden name. I am talking to someone from the Notts FHS and it looks likely that her surname is Anthony.
I am going to X ref my finding against this thread.
Thanks
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I know it's been a few years not but how did this all turn out? I only ask because i am very new to this and if i am correct James and Martha H Moss had a daughter called Clara in 1885. Now she is my mother's grandma. That much i have worked out (i'm pretty sure lol). But i can't go any further back because it's so confusing.
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Apologies again - I jump ahead too much :(. Newf found Meshach with his family in 1901, among them a Florence H Moss aged 13 (so born c1887).
This is the family in1891:
Class: RG12/ Piece: 2662/ Folio 112/ Page 18
Selston
James H Moss 44 Coal Miner
Martha H Moss 43
Mary A H Moss 19
Ruth H Moss 18
John H Moss 16
Mark H Moss 13
Meschach H Moss 8
Clara H Moss 6
Flora H Moss 4
Ethel H Moss 1
Kate H Moss 3m(grandaughter)
Hi Mrsmadronin and welcome to Rootschat.
As you can see from the 1891 census above,they did indeed have a daughter called Clara in abt 1885.
It's been a while since we looked at this one,will have to go back over it and see if any new info has come to light.
Shirls15 hasn't been online since Aug 2012 but as long as she hasn't changed her email address she will be notified that there has been a reply to this thread.
Regards
Carol
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Hello yes I've still got the same email address :).
Clara would be my great grand aunt, I didn't find any marriage on her for some reason but I did do ancestors if they are correct. Clara's father is James Housley Moss and her mother was Martha Gregory. I have Thomas Housley 1819-1855 as James' father and mother as Mary Ann Anthony 1821-1891.
I have a tree on Ancestry website.
Do you live in the same area Mrsmadronin?
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Thank you both for the replies.
Here is what i can tell you about Clara H Moss.
She went on to marry a hawksworth in 1902, however that marriage was very short. She then went onto being with Arthur Albert Moore living in yorkshire and marrying in 1916. They started a family, ie my grandma and then obviously eventually getting to me :)
The family live in yorkshire as it stands right now, however i dont. I reside in Hampshire. But yes Your Clara H Moss is my great Grandma :) So when it comes to Clara and Arthur's family. I know alot and can get them to present day.
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Mrsmadronin,now you have made two postings you can send a personal message to shirls15.
Click on the green page looking thing under her name on the left and you will see any replies at the top of the page in the brown band under my messages.
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Mrsmadronin I have sent you a private message :)
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Thank for the information Carol.
Yes i have got your messages Shirls :)
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Hi, I am very interested in your grandma and Arthur, She is the Aunt of my Grandma Clara Ethel Smith (nee Grainger), I would be very interested in any information you could pass on. My Mum and Clara used to go and visit them in Yorkshire when she was little.
Many Thanks
Rills
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Blimey my mum has mentioned your Grandma Clara and how when she came over to see Aunt Ruth they would always visit Aunt Clara and Uncle Charlie. I have recieved your pm and will reply to you over the next few days (just recovering from flu)