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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (North Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (North Riding) => England => Completed Yorkshire (North Riding) Look up Requests => Topic started by: areyoulocal on Monday 13 October 08 22:49 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help with this one please? I’m trying trace Henry Garbut Abbot (also spelled Garbutt Abbott) and his parents in the 1841 and 1851 Census.
Henry was born around 1832 in Hornsby, Yorkshire North Riding.
So far I can only find him in 1861 listed with the following details:
Henry Garbut Abbot born 1832 Hornby, Yorkshire living at Rosedale East Side, Yorkshire (North Riding)
Wife: Elenor, b. 1832 Market Rasen Lincolnshire
Children:
John Abbot, 1858, Rosedale East, Yorkshire North Riding
Ann Abbot, 1856, East Moors, Yorkshire North Riding
All help & suggestions much appreciated.
With thanks
Paula
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Do you have his marriage cert giving his father's name and occupation?
marriage registrations Mar 1855 Helmsley 9d 484
ABBOT or ABBOTT Henry Gurbutt ALLEN Elinor
This might be him in 1851 listed under Garbutt at East Moors where his daughter Ann was born:
1851 HO107/2372 Folio 89 Page 7 and Folio 90 page 8
East Moors, Helmsley, Yorkshire
GARBUTT
Henry head m 44 Coal Miner Lab Yorks Pockley
Mary wife m 42 Yorks Bilsdale
Henry son s 19 Coal Miner Lab Yorks Hawnby
Elizabeth dau 11 Yorks East Moors
James son 9 "
Joseph " 4 "
Thompson " 2 "
Thomas " 1 month "
Barbara
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If that's him, here's 1841
1841 HO107/1262/17 Folio 44 Page 7
Bonfield Grill High House, Helmsley
GARBUTT
Henry 30 Coal Miner
Mary 30
Henry 10, John 7, Susanna 5, Elizabeth 2
Mary TEASDALE 15 Ag. Lab
all born Yorkshire
Maybe his mother's maiden name was Abbot and he added it on later :-\
Barbara
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Hi,
In view of son Thompson in the 1851 census, a possible marriage Henry Abbott and Mary Ann Thompson 6 June 1831 Hawnby, although the children in the 1841 Census appear to be baptised in Helmsley to Henry and Mary Garbutt.
Lyn
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Hi Barbara and Lyn,
Thanks very much for the swift response and interesting information. You’ve no idea how much searching I’ve done for this man but with little effect – something strange has clearly happened to make him alter his surname. Question is what? The name Garbutt Abbott has been passed down to this day in my husband’s family where it’s a constant source of mystery. No – one knows where it originates from although I suspect from what you’ve both found that this area holds the key.
I think that we’re along the right lines here as Henry Garbut Abbot (1832) was a miner of both jet and iron ore. Probably the best move will be to order a Henry G A’s marriage certificate to Elinor Allen before attempting to go back further.
I’ll leave this request open for the time being if no-one minds should the certificate complicate matters further.
With many thanks once again,
Paula
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Hi Paula,
Will be very interested to see what information there is on the marriage certificate. I have known this happen before, names added on later and people known by either/or surname. Once you have his father's name and occupation from the certificate things may become clearer, the Garbutt/Abbott names may come from the earlier generation
Kind regards,
Barbara
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Henry Garbutt Abbott’s marriage certificate arrived today. It reads:
18 March 1855 at the parish church of Kirby Moorside
Henry Garbutt Abbott, aged 23 Batchelor, coal miner from the parish of Helmsley, father: Henry Garbutt Abbott, coal miner.
Elinor Allen, aged 23, Spinster of Kirbymoorside, father John Allen, occupation brickmaker
Which is great as I’ve now found him in 1871 which follows on nicely from our rootschatters info given above for 1841 & 1851.
My next problem is trying to pin down his mother's details – Unfortunately I can’t find Henry Garbutt Abbott listed on Hawnsby Birth Records for c1832. It would be great if she were a Garbutt which would neatly solve the Garbutt Abbott riddle – but life is rarely so straightforward!!!
Any/all ideas welcome. :)
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Hi Paula,
That's very interesting, and father Henry was just plain Henry Garbutt in 1841/1851 census
Lyn already gave you a possible marriage for Henry Garbutt and Mary Ann Thompson, so the Abbot name must have come from one of their ancestors
Hopefully someone will have the relevant parish records to enable you to get further back.
Kind regards, Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
Am totally confused now. I have just came across this record on GENUKI's Hawnby BTs.
Henry Garbutt married Ann Garbutt 4 Sep 1825.
Trouble is I've no way of knowing whether this Henry Garbutt is really an Abbott or not. :-\
Perhaps another cert is in order..... ;)
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In view of son Thompson in the 1851 census, a possible marriage Henry Abbott and Mary Ann Thompson 6 June 1831 Hawnby, although the children in the 1841 Census appear to be baptised in Helmsley to Henry and Mary Garbutt.
This looks most likely because as Lyn said, Henry junior's son Thompson was probably named after his grandmother
A choice of two birth registrations for the youngest daughter in 1841 census, Elizabeth aged 2, probably the 1838 one, which should give her mother's (Henry's mother's) maiden name:
Sep 1838 Helmsley 24 328 GARBUTT Elizabeth
Jun 1839 Helmsley 24 341 Garbutt Elizabeth
none listed under Abbott
Barbara
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My GGGgrandmother was Rosannah Abbott born Hawnby illegitimate daughter of Hannah Abbott. I would like to recommend the Hawnby births and marrages available on GENUKI done by Justine Cornforth. You might be able to work out who is who from these as they are very comprehensive. Good luck.
Regards
Scarbro.
Another thing to think about maybe is births and marriages in Bilsdale Midcable and/or Old Byland
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Barbara - thanks for keeping me on track! I'll order Elizabeth's birth cert as you suggest - maybe it will do the trick.
Scarbro - The Hawby BTs are excellent aren't they. Justine's done a wonderful job. Thanks for the info on Old Byland and Bilsdale - I'll certainly give them a try.
Thanks once again everyone for all your help and advice.
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Hi Paula,
As Mary says she was born around 1809 in Bilsdale, when you find out what her surname is if you can't find her in the Hawnby transcripts on Genuki which cover the west side of Bilsdale, I'll have a look for you in the Bilsdale Midcable records to see if she's there.
Kind regards
Lyn
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Just to add a little more to the puzzle: have just found the birth of Mary Garbut Thompson 1811 Bilsdale Midcable - no father mentioned mother Elizabeth Thompson. Mary born 25/03 christened 2/04 1811.
The other place with loads of Abbots and Garbutts is the Rosedale indexes on Genuki
Regards
Scarbro
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Mary Ann Thompson (Mary Garbutt Thompson mentioned in the previous post) married Henry Abbott (presumably takes on the surname Garbutt) 6th June 1831 Hawnby. This might tie the Abbott, Garbutt, Thompson names together that come in the next generation?Obviously we are still no further in understanding why the surnames appear and disappear but I do think these two Mary and Henry are the key.
Regards
Scarbro
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Henry Abbot christened Helmsley 22/06/1808 no father or mother mentioned
Age and place more or less fit in with subsequent censuses as Pockley is just 2 miles from Helmsley
Regards
Scarbro
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Lyn – thanks for the kind offer. Depending on how it goes I may take you up on it.
Scarbro – Ooh that’s intriguing!! Thank you very much for taking the trouble to look this out for me. Your theory of how all three names come together is very attractive!! Nevertheless to be absolutely certain I will order one of the children's birth certs in the hope that it will clinch it.
The sheer number of Garbutts in the area make it very difficult to trace a line especially when they seem to add and subtract other surnames as they like. :-\
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Hi,
No problem - it should be easy to find Mary once you have her maiden name. The Hawnby Parish Records might be worth checking for the Henry Garbutt Abbott born 1832 Hawnby as some baptisms and marriages are in there that aren't in the Bishop's Transcripts.
Lyn
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Thanks Lyn. What with all the confusing surnames and variations I'm thinking of joining Ryedale Family History Group. Their research room isn't that far away so it may well be worth a trip or two to Hovingham to ferret out more details.
By the way, I came across a mention of Henry Garbutt (Abbott) (1807) in the Malton Messenger the other day in a notice regarding his daughter Susannah's wedding to James Rawson (Rosen) in March 1859. It mentioned that the bride's father Henry Garbutt esq was from 'Spring Hall'. Does anyone know where Spring Hall is /was?
With thanks,
Paula
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Hi Paula,
As Henry and Mary Garbutt were around East Moors/Helmsley in 1851 & 1861 I would guess Spring Hall is somewhere there.
Not sure but I think these might belong to Susannah in case you haven't already got them - all at Rosedale:
Eliza Ann Rawson buried 25/2/1874 aged 4
Garbutt Rawson buried 24/1/1870 aged 2
James Rawson buried 4/2/1870 - no age
Mary Ellen Rawson buried 2/3/1878 aged 2
Possibly Susannah's sister Elizabeth
1871 High Gill, Rosedale East
William Vickers 40 b. Normanby
Elizabeth 31 b. Eastmoors
Susan dau 5 b
Mary Ann dau 2
Martha dau 8 mths
Hannah Rawson niece 9 b. Eastmoors
Henry Rawson nephew 6 b. Bloweth House (Blouth in 1881 Census)
Lyn
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Thanks Lyn - you're a real treasure! No I didn't have these as I was still bogged down with Henry .... if you know what I mean. :)
Goodness, so many child deaths for one family I wonder how they coped? I also came across a burial record for James Rawson at Rosedale for 1870 around the same time as these infant deaths. Perhaps there was some sort of outbreak then - tragic.
Many thanks for taking the time to look these out - your help is very much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Paula
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Hi Paula,
You're very welcome. It may have been an outbreak of somethng or other - very sad to see so many children dying of things we don't even see much any more - scarlet fever etc.
Lyn