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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Chris in 1066Land on Wednesday 14 April 04 18:19 BST (UK)
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Hi Sussex Researchers
A few years ago, I did my Local History Certificate at Sussex University followed by the DA 301 with the Open University - to this end, I did a lot of research, photocopying everything in site.
I have just re-located where I stored all this information which include:
Lewes in 1871 - A Household and political Directory
1852 Osbornes Directory of Hastings & St Leonards
1855 Post Office Street Directory of Hastings & St Leonards
1862 Post Office Street Directory of Hastings & St Leonards
1872 Parsons Street Directory of Hastings & St Leonards
1881 Parsons Street Directory of Hastings & St Leonards
1861/1871/1881 Census for Hastings, GEORGE STREET ONLY
1861/1871/1881 Census for Hastings ROBERTSON STREET ONLY
NEW* Pigot's Trade Directory of Sussex 1832-3-4
Monumental Inscriptions
Slaugham Monumental Inscriptions (1895)
Newtimber Monumental Inscriptions (1896)
Hailsham Monumental Inscriptions (1896)
Dicker Independent Chapel MI’s
Hurstrmonceux Cong. Chapel MI’s and Graves
St Mary in Castle & Wallinger Walk MI's
Wadhurst, Shovers Green Chapel MI’s
Wadhurst, Pell Green Chapel MI’s
Bodle Street Green – Ebenezer Bapt Chapel Records
St Johns Cong. Chapel – Burgess Hill MI’s
A copy of the book - "The what it cost the day before Yesterday Book" by Harold Priestley, covering the price of goods, cost of living, wages, etc from 1850 to 1978
Willing as usual to do lookups in these
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi there Ruth
In reply to your personal message:
Thanks very much for the offer. I'd be most grateful for any information you have in the Hastings directories on James LANSDELL and his family. James was born about 1822, probably in Battle, and was resident in 15 Wellington Square, Hastings in the 1860s. He disappeared (causing a police search) in 1866 but I believe he must have turned up again as he proved his father's will a few months later. I assume that the following entry in the 1881 census is his family:
RG 11/1024 f.42 p.10
13 Wellington Sq, Hastings St Mary in the Castle, Sussex
Caroline LANSDELL, Head, W, Female, 59, Battle, Sussex, England, Income From Property
James H. LANSDELL, Son, U, Male, 27, Hastings, Sussex, England, Solicitor
Rachel J. LANSDELL, Daur, U, Female, 24, Hastings, Sussex, England
John ALDERTON, Brother Vist, M, Male, 57, Battle, Sussex, England, Retired Chemist
Mary A. ALDERTON, Vist, M, Female, 60, Walsall, Stafford, England, Retired Chemists Wife
Maria KNOWLES, Serv, U, Female, 22, Chatham, Kent, England, Cook Domc Serv
Julia DANIELS, Serv, U, Female, 21, Mountfield, Sussex, England, Housemaid Serv
1855 Post Office Directory
Lansdell J, 12 Pelham Crescent
Lansdell James, Farmer, Silver Hill, Hastings
1862 Post Office Directory
Lansdell James, Lodging Houses 1 – 7 Breeds Place, 12 Pelham Crescent & 12 Wellington Square
Lansdell James, jun, esq, 15 Wellington Square
1872 Parsons Directory
Lansdell, Mrs J, Lodging House Keeper, 1 to 7 Breeds Place, Hastings.
Lansell Susannah, Lodging House, 6 Carlisle Parade
Lansdell Mrs, 15 Wellington Square, Hastings
1881 Parsons Directory
13 Wellington Square
Lansdell Mrs
Lansdell J H Esq, Solicitor
Lansdell M J Architect.
In 1881 their names do not appear in Pelham Crescent, Silver Hill, Breeds Place and Carlisle Parade; although all properties are shown as Lodging Houses. Maybe this was the source of income that Caroline lived on as shown in the 1881 census.
Chris in 1066Land
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Ruth
Things are just starting to drop into place - Let me explain
For a number of years, I have been doing research on an area of land called 'The America Ground' which was the Roman Harbour of Hastings until it was filled in by the great storms of 1287. The land then stood empty (Hastings moved lock stock and barrel to a new sight and harbour) till about 1800 when a rope walk was established, and soon, thanks to the building of nearby Pelham Crescent and Burtons St Leonards - a vast number of squatters soon occupied this land - as many as 1000 by 1828 when the crown did a survey of the land and its inhabitants. (No one was paying any rates)
Most of the buildings on this land plus the Rope Walk were owned by Mark Boykett Breeds (Merchant), Thomas James Breeds, Merchant and Thomas Breeds, Merchant; they also owned a local Brewery and a Bank, together with other land in Hastings. - Incidentally this piece of land by 1881 had become 'The Regent Street of Hastings', following the crown clearance of the squatters in 1835 and redevelopment by Patrick Robinson in 1850.
Whilst transcribing this 1828 Crown Census document tonight, I came across the following:
Description of Building - An Open Shed, with Carpenters Shop Over; and Large Yard with Sawpit; rented from Thomas Breeds by James Lansdell.
Annual value of the premises is £20.
Note in Margin - This tenant is Son in Law to Mr Breeds and his agreement was to remove the Building whenever desired, and therefore this is a ground rent only.
What do you make of that ?
Chris in 1066Land
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Chris
That's excellent! Thank you ever so much.
The James Lansdell in your second email must be the other James' father (bap. 14 Jan 1786, Bexhill and d. 29 Jun 1865, Battle - my 1st cousin 6x removed...). He was a carpenter and builder so the carpenter's shop and sawpit fit nicely with him. I haven't found information on his wife yet as she appears to have died pre-1841. It's most interesting to find this connection with such a significant family in Hastings. You've given me a lot more to work on!
I note that there's a will for Thomas Breeds, brewer and merchant of Hastings, dated 1840, on www.documentsonline.pro.gov.uk. I think I'll start there...
Ruth
P.S. Just found a potential marriage for James to Martha Breeds on the IGI - it's patron submitted, but seems likely given your information. Martha was baptised on 11 Jan 1793 at St Clement's, Hastings, daughter of Thomas and Martha Breeds.
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Hi Ruth
Thats Great - now that we have established a connection with the Breeds Family.
Martha Breed is indeed the wife of James Lansdell, in fact Breeds Place in Hastings got its name from Martha Breed when it was developed by non other than James Lansdell.
If you send me your e-mail address by private message - I will send you a Gold Mine - a few years ago I went to a lecture on the life of the Breed Family, given by one of their descendents, had a tape recorder in my pocket, recorded it all, then typed it out - very many pages, but unfortunately no pictures - but I have loads of them anyway.
So, what do you think of that
Chris in 1066Land
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Chris
That's wonderful! Thank you ever so much for your help with this.
I'm sending you my email address by private message as suggested.
Thanks again.
Ruth
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The Breeds you mentioned seem to be relatives of my Breeds. I have a Breeds family tree that was given to me by a Mr Breeds (former Major) who is also in it.
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ops - forgot to add - available to anyone who would like a copy.
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on the tree:
Martha b. 1793 married a James Llansdell (Builder)
apparently Breeds Place, Hastings is named after her.
She had brother - Thomas b. 1795 and James b. 1800.
James was a merchant brewer - alderman, Freeman, Hastings - married Ann Wilson of Newington Surrey.
Father of above:
Thomas bpt. 1766. He was a sailmaker and shipping merchant. Alderman and Freeman, Hastings. he married Martha Cunningham of Southwark in 1786.
His brothers/sisters:
Boykett bur. 1763
Thomas James bpt. 1769
Susannah 1772
Mark Boykett bapt 1774 m. Elizabeth Edmund 1793
Sarah bur. 1776
Sarah 1777
Elizabeth Blanden 1781
Ann Perego 1783
Parents of above: Boykett (Widower) m Sarah Wilks (of Battle) in Hastings 1762.
Parents of above Boykett:
Thomas Breeds and Martha Boycolt (Boyket) married 1733.
Whew.
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Twink
Part 1
Breeds of Hastings
by Tony Hyde - Husband of the grandaughter of James Breed
The first Breeds came to Hastings about 1760, and it was about this time that Hastings began a very long period of change and development especially in the years after the Napoleonic wars (about 1815). Boykett Breeds, (strange Christian name, but it was his mothers family name), was born in Rye in 1735 and came from a Seafaring family and for about 50 years from about 1790 through to 1840 his sons were very deeply involved in the development of Hastings, and from then until 1931 they ran one of the main businesses in the Old Town - The Hastings Brewery.
Buildings connected with the family - High Street, number 23, 33, Breeds Yard, 95 High Street, Nelson Buildings, several buildings in Hill Street and the Swan Inn, In the new part of the town Breeds place, Wellington Square and the America Ground, Out of the town is the Bohemia Estate, Hole Farm, Lithen Farm in Guestling.
In 1762 Boykett Breeds married Sara Wilkes from Battle at All Saints Church. The first reference in the secular records of the time appears in 1764 and is ‘Feb. 22nd, received from Boykett Breeds for two windings (of the Capstan) to London 16/-’, but the entries increased in number over the succeeding years; other entries include things as ‘spent with Captain Breeds 1/11½d and 1 pint for the Carpenter’- obviously from future entries the Carpenter is a thirsty fellow.
By the time he reached 50 years of age, Boykett had already established a close trade association with London, he was a mariner and also a merchant, and in 1767 he moved to St Clements parish in Hastings and purchased 1, 2 and 3 Hill Street, and at the same time he purchased on the Stade a warehouse. When he started in 1784 he owned not only the three houses in Hill Street, and a former brew house which was now a school house at the top of Church Street, but he also owned No 4 and 24. He also owned 95 High Street, 2 other houses in Hastings, 2 houses in Rye and 2 other deeds in Hastings.
The dwelling houses were not all required for his relatively small family and so they were let out as Lodging Houses. That enterprise continued certainly up to the 1840’s in the family, and at times they had as many as 20 houses around Hastings for letting to Summer visitors. Boykett also let two trading sloops.
Boykett died in 1784 and left 3 sons and 5 daughters.
The three sons, Thomas, James and Mark where all young (all the daughters were younger, so Sarah had a large family to take care of on her own) when their father died - Thomas and James took over their fathers two Sloops immediately and they bought a third Sloop for Mark when he reached the age of 14. Thomas and James were traders in association with London and both married girls from London and also had houses there; but in fact lived in Hastings. Thomas lived at Seagulls just up George Street, and James at 95 High Street which he had purchased from his mother.
In 1804 Thomas bought number 23 High Street, James then moved to Seagulls.
Their Coasting trade flourished (mostly Sloops) and by 1789 despite the fact that Hastings trade was going up hugely, both through imports and exports, the Breeds were the sole shippers from the Stade right up until about 1801.
All was not easy going on the South Coast in the 1790’s because of Embargo’s from our own isles, fear of invasion, and French Privateers preying on our trading vessels, and on 14th March 1795 the Breeds partitioned the King and Council stating that “on account of the embargo and intense weather, only 1 vessel out of the 3 that are regularly employed in the Coasting trade between London and Hastings had arrived since Christmas and consequently the inhabitants were very much distressed”.
Chris in 1066Land
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Twink
Part 2
The 1800 Pier wardens report lists several boats owned by the Breeds that are mentioned in a letter written by the Breeds on 11th August 1799 to the Lords Commissioners at the Admiralty saying “there would probably be a large crop of Hops in the vicinity of Hastings, and there was insufficient quantity of Welsh coal to process them - very serious consequences if this is not available, we prey therefore that the embargo be removed for the Sloop ‘Johnson’ - Nicholas Taylor master; the ‘Active’ lying at Neath laden with coal, and the ‘Susannah’ Henry Williams master, lying at Rye might be permitted to sail for Swansea or Neath and load Coal for Hastings”. By 1800 most of the sailing was being done by helpers, the masters of the vessels were no longer the brothers themselves who were now concentrating on their merchant business.
Thomas’s daughter Martha married James Lansdell and he was a developer who became very involved with the family, James was his heir who took over in 1839. James the second brother had no sons but four daughters one of whom, Elizabeth married Charles Burfield and their children became James heirs.
Mark had lots of children but only one named Boykett is of interest.
In 1802 Mark decided to leave the family partnership and in a letter of that date, the brothers say that for several years past they had been involved in the following:-
Coasting Trade - (up to 60 vessels found connected to the Breeds up to 1875).
Trading and Merchants - mainly groceries and wholesale goods.
Barrack Agencies - supplying goods and materials for building Martello Towers, Coal to troops etc.
Shipbuilding and Rope making
Coal trade. etc.
All the very essentials of life in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.
Most of their trade was the coastal trade although on the 17th Feb. 1816 the Lloyds register lists the vessel ‘The Four Sisters’ on her maiden voyage transporting 900 barrels of Herring from Hastings to Venice and arriving safely - the only entry found to date connected with fish.
Barrack Services was the supply of anything required by the forces including the land - Thomas and Mark were involved in the sale of the land at Halton to the War Department, and then no doubt supplied the building material, food, coal, ale and anything else that they may have required.
No evidence has been found that the Breeds were involved in the Rope Walk in the Old Town, but in a solicitors note dated 12th December 1800, it is stated that “several persons trading under the firm of Messers Breeds and Company have within about the last 3 months erected a large building of Red Brick and made a very long rope walk on part of the ‘Outlands’ and the Sea Beach claimed as part of the estate called the Dissolved Priory in the parish of Holy Trinity, Hastings” also mentioned by Barry a few years later. The objection that was raised by the solicitor obviously did not succeed as they were there until 1835 when the Crown Lands were cleared.
A clear indication as to the date of the commencement of the Rope Walk.
Shipbuilding - the only documentary evidence apart from the 1802 indenture is the sale of the ‘John and Mary’ and the description that she was built at Hastings by Hamilton and Breeds, dated 25th September 1803. John and Mary was an 81 ton Sloop and remained in Breeds service until 1826 - during the war she was reported as coasting with 2 cannonades simply for defence. Breeds incidentally did have an interest in 1 Privateer which was the ‘Earl Wellington’ from 1813 to 1815.
Hamiltons did have a ship yard from about 1802 or 3 to about 1811 behind the Rope Walk and the John and Mary could have been built there, but he sold it to the Breeds who rented it out to a third party until 1824 when they took over possession of the yard and divided it between themselves (Thomas and James).
Chris in 1066Land
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Twink
Part 3
All the enterprises required blocks of warehouses and a picture painted by Thomas Hearn of the ‘Noah’s Ark’ which they owned showed an example of one, and in the museum archives is an indenture of when Thomas sold it to James in 1814. Their partnership broke up in 1829, when they had 5 other warehouses and huge areas of ground in the town of Hastings where they stored their coal and timber plus other goods, and also several warehouses in Pevensey and London.
Coal - In 1831, Nephew Boykett and Thomas were advertising Welsh Coal for the use of the Hop Growers to dry their Hops, and they also exported it for the population of Hastings. The only Coal Merchant in the town from about 1807 to 1830 although there were others from time to time. Coal trade was continued until 1875.
The farms that they owned as merchants tended to be used to support their merchant business and their other businesses, and the first task of the farmers was to provide for the teams of horses kept either at the farm or at the yard. From 1802 to 1820 the partnership owned Hole Farm (manager Benjamin Lingham up to about 1811) which overlooked Alexander Park (at that time Hop Gardens) and this was used specifically to maintain the teams of horses that they required.
In 1810 Thomas purchased the 100 acre farm on the road to Guestling, bought as a private venture, separate from the partnership - at the same time James got possession of the Parker Charity Lands - at a rent of £210 per annum, he then rented the land for about the next 14 years.
About 1/3rd of a mile short of the White Hart on the road to Guestling is a barn that was burned down during the Swing Riots, and for which act a Mr. Buffard was executed at Lewes Jail in 1831, but Mr. Buffard was innocent as another man on his death bed confessed to the crime - the barn was later rebuilt and shows a stone with the initials and date of the rebuilding. T.B. 1831
One of Thomas’s horses named ‘Sharper’ had the honour of towing a tug from Hastings to London laden with two pleasure boats.
After 1802 they were involved in a whole series of other trades
Lime Burning - Wellington Square in 1800 (120,000 bushels produced in any one year) and in 1830 when son Boykett was bankrupt, Thomas and his son James took on the Lime Burning, but moved it to near Bo-Peep until the mid 1840’s
The management of the London wharf from 1800 to 1839 (between 1 and 4 storeys) was the job of Thomas Breeds and Thomas Farncombe who after Thomas Breeds died in 1839 became Lord Mayor of London.
The Breeds Bank was founded in 1803/4, the documents say 1803, but it began trading in 1804, in Number 33 High Street, next door to the entrance to Breeds Yard - the partners names that appear on the Bank Notes of the day were Thomas Breeds, Henry and Thomas Farncombe, Mark Breeds and Edward Whenam.
One of their first recorded operations was the purchase of the Swan Inn from Edward Millward junior the year after his father died, a floor plan of which was exhibited.
In 1820 there appears to have been a change in the arrangements at the bank as the Bank Notes from this time onwards bear the name of Thomas Breeds and Company; but the bank closed in 1825 - Thomas was still referred to as ‘a banker’ in documents dated as late as 1827. Also in 1820 Edward Whenham purchased the Swan from the other partners of the bank for the same price the bank had originally paid for it in 1812, and he kept it till about 1825 when William Eldridge purchased it from him.
Chris in 1066Land
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Twink
Part 4
Nelson Buildings in the High Street was built by Mark, the youngest of the three brothers in 1815 (he was a builder and developer) and he tended to take the main interest in the banks building development, particularly in Wellington Square and the Castle Hotel - built about 1818 onwards. The bank partners retained almost all of the buildings in Wellington Square and for many years let them out for visitors during the summer or to Doctors and other well-to-do residents at £80 to £100 per annum.
The Castle was the first project the developers built and was then leased out to Mr. Everett, and now Thomas and his nephew Boykett purchased the Estate at Bohemia from Mr. Collingwood for £12,000 - they let the main house to a business associate and then set about selling various of the outlying fields for building, at some stage they divided the Estate between themselves.
In 1831 when Boykett was declared bankrupt, the part of the estate that he owned was sold and bought by Mr. Briscoe at auction - some years later Thomas sold to Mr. Briscoe part of the estate that he owned, but they also re-purchased the Halton Barrack area in 1823 and Thomas and Boykett then started to develop it.
Thomas also purchased from Mr. Millward in about 1824 the area of land on which Breeds place was built a few years later and an area of the High Street that was not developed for a number of years. In 1828 his son in law James Lansdell built Breeds Place and named it after his wife.
Coaching - One document in the family archive refers to Thomas and James complaining that they were being charged to much tax for coach calls and hired hands at their stables on the route to London - they all had a mutual hatred of the tax man. James owned the Paragon and Thomas possibly owned the Regulator - when they commenced this line of business is not certain but it was probably in the 1820’s and Thomas closed his interest in the Regulator about 1835, - James lost interest in the Paragon when he went bankrupt in 1836/7. As well as these two coaches, James and his nephew Boykett had interests in the mail, but in 1830 James took it over and ran it until about 1836. In the voters roll of 1836/7 both Thomas and James are shown as having mail coachmen, but only James is listed as having mail coachmen in 1837.
Brewing - James at the Phoenix Brewery and Thomas at the Hastings Brewery had Brew Houses from the first decade of the century - the Phoenix lasting until 1908 and the Hastings Brewery until 1971.
The Breeds have been involved as Merchants, Bankers, Brewers, Coasters, particularly coal and groceries, Lodging Houses owners, Rope and Sail Makers on the America Ground, Ship builders, Lime burners, Developers and builders in a time when Hastings was erecting some lovely buildings, Farmers, Barrackers up to 1815, and lastly Coaching to London.
Hastings Brewery
Thomas’s enterprise started in the first decade of the 19th century, and by 1818 he had seized an opportunity to purchase an area immediately outside the fence of Breeds Yard to extend the Brewery which was rebuilt in 1828.
In 1839 Thomas died and was succeeded by his son James who by now was aged about 39 or 40, and he continued the business, all the merchant business and in particular the Brewery on very much the same lines as his father had done. (Coal advert of 1855)
He lived with his mother at 23 High Street, the family home, until she died in 1850 when he then married Ann Wilson from London and who then produced 11 children at number 23.
Chris in 1066Land
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Twink
Final Part
One of the 12 Inns that he inherited in the Hastings area was the “Jolly Sailor” licensed to open at 5am.
From 1839 to 1875 James was in charge of the family business which began to move away from general things because of the arrival of the railway in Hastings, the town was getting bigger and specialisation was clearly becoming much more necessary. He had three children amongst the 11 that merit mention - Thomas, the favourite son (always called Tom) who succeeded his father in 1875, Madeline, one of several daughters, but who married Albert Sayer, and who were later to become the parents of Alfred Carlisle Sayer who gave the Fairlight estate to the town, and finally James who is the Grandfather of Tony Hyde’s wife.
When Thomas or Tom took over the Brewery in 1875 he realised that he had to move onwards more than his father had done, and gave up all the associated trades, the last ships were sold, and from 1878 to 1880, he concentrated on rebuilding the whole brewery. In 1897 he decided the brewery was to be turned into a limited company which gave him more capital which he used to produce a very fine modern bottling plant, he also put in a very fine stable for his horses that remained there, mostly for transport until about 1920.
The brewery trade which until 1900 had flourished, then fell on very hard times, but in 1908 the other brewery The Phoenix was sold. The year before in 1907, the Nethers brewery was taken into receivership and 1903 was taken over by Breeds Brewery.
Fortunately Tom weathered the storm and by 1917 things began to abound.
In the 1920’s Tom, who had taken on an Analysist as early as 1880, won numerous prizes at Brewers exhibitions. In 1930 when Tom was by now 78 years of age and still working, he wanted a Breeds successor, but was unable to persuade his nephew to take over the business because he had another career.
Tom then looked round for a buyer for the Hastings Brewery which he found in George Rigdon of Faversham who purchased the Brewery in March 1931, taking over on the 19th of that month - Tom died on the 31st of March 1931.
This to all intents and purposes was the end of the Breeds relationship with the Old Town of Hastings. His widow lived until 1965.
Chris in 1066Land
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Wow - that's a lot of typing you just did. Very interesting.
Possibly more so to Ruth as she is closer related than I.
However - "Mark had lots of children but only one named Boykett is of interest" - he doesn't state why - BUT - it appears he was born about 1794 and married Harriet Foster in 1821. It is possible that the reason he is 'of interest' is because (I think) he commited suicide in August 1861 - there is a newspaper account of it somewhere (found it online but can't remember where I put it). They had 8 children: Harriet 1821, Ann Edmund 1822, Mark Boykett 1824, Boykett 1827, Jane 1830, Charles 1832, Frances 1837, Alexander 1839.
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Hi Twink,
I found that reference to Boykett's suicide too:
"Joyce Wheatley tells me that whilst she was searching in one of the Sussex newspapers for August 1861 she came across a reference to the body of Mr. Boykett Breeds being found at Cliff End. He was an Auctioneer who had a business in George Street. He had left a suicide note and was aged 67. The inquest was held in the guardroom of No. 36 Coast Guard station, Cliff End."
This comes up under a Google search and I am not able to identify the exact source of the information but the heading is "Notes and Corrections" and it has some connection with June Barnes. The web page can't be opened.
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Hi there Sussex Researchers
Just added the following Archives to my Library
1801 & 1831 Census Returns for Ticehurst.
1821 Census Returns for East Hoathy & Chiddingly
1821 & 1831 Census Return for Hailsham
1831 Census returns for East Dean & Friston, Uckfield
1821 Census for Hartfield
1831 & 1811 St John Sub Castro, plus Population 1811, Jury List & Voters 1832
1821 & 1831 Census Returns for Hastings, St Clements & St Mary in the Castle.
1863 Ewhurst Householders
1838 – Withyham Inhabitants.
1841 Census Vol.11 – East Grinstead, Worth, Crawley, West Hoathy
1841 Census Vol.12 – Rye, Guldeford, Iden, Broomhill, Playden
Hastings Baptisms – 1700 - 1877
Hastings Union Notice of Marriages 1837 – 1865
Hastings Union Notice of Marriages 1865 - 1879
1841 Census on CD - Eastbourne
1861 Census on CD - Eastbourne
East Sussex Quarter Sessions 1810 – 1854
As usual, all are available for 'Look Ups'
Chris in 1066Land
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Dear Chris,
Just seen that you have a 1811 population list for Lewes St John's (S-C). Chance you can look up any WICKS/WEEKS?
All the best,
Peter
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Hi there
Poor House - Lewes.
James Wicks, Labourer, 5 Males, 6 Females, 2 Families
This is the one and only entry
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Chris
Any chance of finding the following:
RICHARD BREEDS birth c1800 Hastings
and
JOHN BREEDS birth c1769
I know Breeds is extremely poplar, but I'd love to know when they were baptised. The dates were given on the 'tree' I acquired.
Also children of Richard & Harriett BREEDS:
Rachel 1850, Richard 1852, John 24/12/1853, Sarah (i think baptised 30/3/1858, Caroline Mary (i think baptised 15/6/1860, Alfred 1877.
What sort of information would the 1821/31 census give - just head of household?
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Hi Twink
There are over 100 Breed & Breeds baptisms, but only 2 from your list:
30.11.1849, Rachel Harriet, dau of Richard James & Harriet – St Clements.
15.06.1860, Caroline Mary, dau of Richard & Hariet – All Saints.
The 1821 & 1831 Census give:
1821 - Name, Male / Female, Occupation, Families – Street Address, but info varies from place to place.
1831 – Name, Occupation, Age, Male, Female, Children
Chris in 1066Land
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Thanks Chris
Re: 1821/31 Census - Hastings
On 1831:
Richard & Bendicta BREEDS (richard supposingly b. 1800 but on 1841 census age was given as 49 and on 1851 census was given as 61, Benedicta should be 30)
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Hi Twink
On the 1841 census, Richard and Benedicta were in All Saints Parish
I only have the
1821 & 1831 for St Mary in the Castle and
1831 for St Clements.
I do not believe the 1831 for All Saints has survived.
Sorry
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Chris
Would your 1841 & 1861 Census cover Sedlescombe and Beckley ?
If so could I ask for a look up on James Playford b 1813 Sedlescombe ( Wife Ann Ballard b 1814 westfield) 8 Children born from 1839 - 1860.
1841 only - James parents William Playford of Beckley b 1782 d 1856 wife Elizabeth nee Ridley of Peamarsh b 1786 d 1856. It would be nice to put some flesh on these names.
Thank you so very much for your time : )
Much happiness
Debi
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Hi Daisy Dee
As yet I do not have any 1861 census for Sussex - did you mean 1851?
Here is the 1841 entry for your Playfords at Sedlescombe
HO107/1109/12 – Folio 1-13; Swalesgreen, Sedlescombe, Sussex
PLAYFORD James, 27, Ag Lab, born in Sussex
Ann, 25, Sussex
Robert, 3, Sussex
Henry, 8months, Sussex
The 1841 for Beckley has not yet been transcribed and published on cd - so unable to look on there for you.
Chris in 1066Land
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Hi Chris
Thank you so very much .
I had hoped there was a 1861 as you very kindly looked up this couple for me some months ago on your 1851 census.
This 1841 look up has given me another child to the couple : ))
Truly grateful of your time
Much happiness
Debi
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Hi there
There is another family of PLAYFORDS on the 1841 census in Sedlescombe that may / could be related
HO107/1109/12 – Folio 1 – 12; Austford Farm, Sedlescomb, Sussex
PLAYFORD Thomas, 30, Ag Lab, born in Sussex
Elizabeth, 30, Sussex
Edwin, 11, Sussex
Thomas, 7, Sussex
Caleb, 11months, Sussex
Spencer, 15, Ag Lab, Sussex.
Hope you can find a connection
Chris in 1066Land
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Oh yesssssssss I have them in my tree.
James's cousin - Thank you very very much Chris. :)
Could I ask you to look for them on your 1851 census please as i have very little info on them - thank you again
Much happiness
Debi
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Hi Debi
Sorry, but they are not on the 1851 census for Sedlescombe or surrounding district except for Spencer.
HO107/ 1636/ Folio 206/ Page 40 - Near Footland, Sedlescombe, Sussex
PLAYFORD Spencer, Head, Marr, 32, Ag Lab, born Sedlescomb
Mary Jane, Wife, Marr, 26, born Northiam
Spencer, Son, Unm, 1, born Sedlescomb.
Allowing for the fact that Spencers age was rounded down to the nearest 5 in the 1841 census, i.e. 15; he could therefore have been 19, which makes his 1851 age of 32 not to far out.
plus there is also this family in Sedlescombe
HO107/ 1636/ Folio223/ Page 56 - Snaggs Hall, Sedlescombe
PLAYFORD James, Head, Marr, 36, Ag Lab, born Northiam
Harriett, Wife, Marr, 36, born Ewhurst
Harriett, Dau, Unm, 14, born Ewhurst
John, Son, Unm, 12, born Sedlescombe
Albert, Son, Unm, 6, born Ewhurst
William, Son, Unm, 6, born Ewhurst
Mary Ann, Dau, Unm, 4, born Ewhurst
George, Son, Unm, 1, born Ewhurst
Chris in 1066Land
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Chris thank you once again.
Now I have to find out were they all went lol........I can see my w/end consummed with finding them.
Much happiness
Debi
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Hi Chris, I have just noticed a query and reply re 1811 Population List for Lewes St. John regarding JAMES WICKS.
You mentioned a James Wicks, labourer, 5 males, 6 females, 2 families. I have a James Wicks born 1781 who married Sarah Manners in 1803. HIs son James was born in 1805. Surely the James Wicks YOU mentioned was most probably the father of the one born in 1781?
Could you give me your thoughts on this one? I have not been able to pick up anything back past James (born 1781).
Appreciate your input for ALL the queries you answer. I wish now I had copied more records when I did my Diploma in Local History. Regards. Marie
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Hi there Marie P
Thanks for the message - but can you remind me of the original question - please ;D
As you rightly point out, I do answer an awful lot of queries and can not always re-call them without scrolling through some 2000+ replies.
Will then give it some thought
Thanks
Chris in 106Land
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Hi Chris
Could you possibly check the 1862 Post Office Street Directory for Hastings 1862 to see if Thomas Beeho can be found. I have been told that he was living in Hastings from 31 Jan 1861 and I know he was sentenced to transportation in 1864. Just trying to find out where he was in between!
Thanks for your help
Anne-Marie
PS The surname may be misspelt so have a good guess if necessary!
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Hi Anne-Marie
Have just checked my copy of the 1862 Post Office Directory, and your Thomas Beeho is not listed under any spelling variation
I did not think he would be as the early directories concentrated more on traders and prominent citizens more than the ordinary folk
Sorry to be so negative
Chris in 1066Land
3137
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Hi Chris
Thanks for looking - your help is always v much appreciated!!
A-M
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Hi,
do you have any Edmonds or Edmunds in your list of monumental inscriptions from Slaugham?
Thanks.