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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: jollyrob on Sunday 12 October 08 21:05 BST (UK)
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hello
i am searching for any information on my family tree.
my grandmother elizabeth christie was born approximately 1918. she was one of 15 or 17 children and i would love to find out their names.
we think her mothers name was elizabeth jameson (but could be wrong)
Her father was called harold we think. and he had a brother robert christie who according to family rumour was an mp a councillor and a jp for the area. they lived in the linlithgow area. we think harold and robert came over from ireland. there is also a rumour that robert wrote a book about the brothers trip to scotland.
Elizabeth ( my grandmother) was one of the eldest children, (she raised the youngest phyllis as her own daughter). Elizabeth had an older sister called mary who was run over by a car aged 6 ( there cant be too many of these about i would guess) as my nan remembered this event it must have happened in the early 1920's.
my grandmother has unfortunately developed dementia and it is now too late to ask her all these questions, i wish i had found out more when i had the chance, but i hope i can at least find out some things now.
my grandmother married and moved to london and we have therefore no real contact with her roots just some half remebered stories that we are trying to piece together.
i hope someone can help-
from robert plaister
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Hi Robert
It is quite hard trying to research in the period you are in on-line because most of the records are too recent to access on line. It would be worthwhile trying to verify your steps back one at a time which will require you to order some certificates to establish parents' names and dates. You also have to take care, because of the recentness of events, when including people's names on the forum because people may still be alive...just tread with care :)
I can only find one birth entry for an Eli* Christ* (allowing for variants of spelling) in Linlithgow and that is in 1923. Elsewhere in Scotland with a search range of 1920 +/- 5yrs brings up over 100 entries (18 alone between 1918-19). You can view certificates on line for births on Scotlands People, the official pay to view site for BMDs and original census images, only up to 1907. For marriages up to 1932 and deaths up to 1957. After these dates, you have to order certificates due to privacy rules.
In respect of possible marriages for parents, there are 5 entries coming up with Harry Christie to wives with different names that you show, none in Linlithgow. There is one marriage in 1905 showing for an Maria M Elizabeth Jameson to an Alexander Harpe(r?) Christie in 1905 in Edinburgh. Bear in mind for both the birth of your Grandmother and parents' marriage, that the family may not have moved to Linlithgow until later years.
In respect of births for Phyllis, there is one possible showing in 1945 in Linlithgow.
In your position, I would start by trying to find the marriage certificate for your Grandmother which hopefully took place in Scotland. Hopefully with your Grandfather's name, you can ask the GROS to do a search for the marriage (the marriage index on SP unfortunately only goes up to 1932 at present although there are plans to extend this shortly). The cert. would include her parents' names including mother's maiden name and an occupation for her father. It will also include whether her parents were alive at the time of her marriage.
Monica :)
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:'( Your Grandmother's sister that died as a result of a car accident was Margaret, not Mary. She died aged 5 in 1926 in Linlithgow. Parents were Henry (a variant of Harry) and Elizabeth Jamieson. Henry was a shale miner by occupation. Margaret was knocked over near the road next to Bridgend School some doors down from where the family were living at 64 Bridgend, Linlithgow.
Monica
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Your Grandmother's parents were young when they married in 1920 Linlithgow, at the home of Elizabeth:
Henry Christie, 18, wine lorry driver, living at 78 Bridgend Rows, Linlithgow. Parents: William Christie, shale miner and Margaret Gibson
Elizabeth Mitchell Jamieson, 17, living at 30 Bridgend Rows, linlithgow. Parents James Jamieson, shale miner and Agnes Mitchell.
Monica
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I can't easily see William and Margaret Christie on 1901 which would fit with likely Irish origins. For Elizabeth's parents, there is this possible entry showing in 1901:
James Jamieson 26, shale miner, b. Cowdenbeath, Fifeshire
Agnes Jamieson 25, b. Alloa, Clackmannan
John Jamieson 4, b. Kirknewton, Midlothian
George Jamieson 2, b. Kirknewton, Midlothian
Cathrine Jamieson 3 months, , b. Kirknewton, Midlothian
Isabella Allen 22, cousin, b. Alloa, Clackmannan
Address: 79 Oakbank, Kirknewton and East Calder, Midlothian.
There is a marriage showing in 1896 in Alloa Clackmannan for a James Jamieson and an Agnes Mitchell which might be their given Agnes' birth place showing on the census.
Monica
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If Henry's parents were Irish, you might be able to find out more about them from their death certs. There is one possible entry for mother for example (always easier to search for wives because you can include maiden name in the search parameters).
1943 - Margaret Gibson/Christie in Linlithgow, age 66
If the correct one, the death cert which is available to view on Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk will show whether husband William was alive or deceased at the time of her death letting you narrow down the search for his death.
Similarly for Elizabeth's mother, there is this potential entry for her death:
1943 - Agnes Mitchell/ Jamieson in Linlithgow, age 67
Monica
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Wow monica thank you so much for replying with so much information.
i will start following the lines you have suggested to find out more.
i hadnt thought of entering names upsetting people but i will tread with care especially if i uncover any skeletons that might embarass some people still living.
i really cant thank you enough for pushing me in all the right directions. i will let you know where it all leads me to .
robert
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Hi Jollyrob,
The margaret Christie that was killed in the road accident is buride at Linlithgow cemetry Section J lair No 188.
she was buried on the 5 may 1926,she was residing at 78 Bridgeng,Linlithgow. There is also a Henry Christie buried in the same plot he was buried on the 10 feb 1972 aged 69 and was residing at 6 Auldhill Avenue,Bridgend.
I had a look for other christie's in the burial records and found that in Section H Lair No 169 there were the following
Margaret Christie buried on the 8 nov 1943 aged 66 was residing at 4 Auldhill Crescent Brigend,linlithgow
William Christie retired Shale Miner was buried on the 10 Aug 1954
Mary aged 2 buried on the 28 May 1914
Mary aged 1 buried on the 17 Oct 1916
Susan aged 0 buried on the 28 jan 1909
William aged 0 buried on the 7 aug 1924
and a Ann o'Brien aged 26 buried on the 12 Sept 1908.
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That great info Sicknote :) Certainly helps in confirming the family lines. I wonder why Henry's wife Elizabeth Jamieson is not showing as being in the same lair as Henry - SP show her death in 1976 - age 71 (GROS 703/00 0085).
Your info also puts a date by when the Christies had arrived in Linlithgow, from 1908. I wonder who Ann O'Brien was? I would imagine that a number of the young children who show in lair no. 169 could well have been siblings to Henry given his mother Margaret's age.
Have you managed to find anything on the Jamieson's? We have that likely death for Agnes, Elizabeth's mother, also in 1943.
Monica :)
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Hi monicalsel
James Jamieson was buried on the 29 April 1950 aged 75 (Retired Shale Miner) Residing at 63 Auldhill Crescent,Bridgend, His Wife Agnes Mitchell/Jamesion was buried on the 10 April 1943 aged 67. They are buried in Section L 339. There is also a Raffaelina Jamieson buried in the same plot on the 11 Feb 1947 aged 21,she was residing at 2 Auldhill Road,Bridgend.
If you go on to the West Lothian Family History Society website you can purchase a copy of the burial record,which covers Linlithgow,Whitburn,Fauldhouse,Livingstone,and Woodbank,up till 1975
I Have a copy and it is full of intresting information.
Sicknote
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Thanks for that Sicknote - lots of very useful info there for Robert :)
Monica
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On the burial records there are Christie's buried at Linlithgow in 1888. might be part of the same family.
sicknote
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Great information thank you, im having a hard time writing it all down and keeping track of it.
looking at the deaths, the children cant be elizabeths and henrys unless elizabeth was having children aged 8. is it possible that the children mentioned are henrys siblings.
margaret would have been aged 32, 35 and 38 for the earliest of the graves and so would probably have been still having children.
a problem arises again with henry being margarets son as we estimate he was born in 1885 and margaret was born in c 1877 ( if the death record found is the right person).
i am getting very confused trying to work it all out.
we are pretty sure that it was henry himself that came over from ireland. would his parents have followed after. is it possible margaret is a second wife for william christie ( henrys father) that he met in scotland?
could ann o'brien be henrys sister with a married name? she would be around the same age as henry (ann b c1884).
there was talk of some possible infidelity in the family so maybe some children come from that??
our source of family info and rumours are aunt phyllis. she is the youngest of elizabeth jamiesons/christies children but she was raised by her elder sister (my grandmother elizabeth) and so only knows the family from holiday visits to scotland she made as a child. she was born in 6 auldhill avenue in 1945, auldhill is an adress that is coming up a lot.
a family story is that the family lived in a poor part of town in a small house with no running water, and that when robert ( henrys brother) became an mp he got them a much nicer home ( the one in auldhill) that had running water.
it appears from death reord and census that the family moved from bridgend to auldhill in around the period suggested by the tale,i dont know west lothian at all would bridgend have been worse off than auld hill? does the story hold any water?
we have tried to trace a robert christie mp/jp but have had no luck at all.
i am not as fast as you at discovering new information, you have both saved me months of work and probably uncovered some things i would never have found out!
robert
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Robert
Remember that on Henry's 1920 marriage he shows as just 18 yrs old so born circa 1902 and this birth year tallies with the death details given by Sicknote (1972 aged 69). Also, from Henry's MC, parents were confirmed as William and Margaret (Gibson). I would imagine the early deaths showing from 1908, provided by Sicknote, would be for Henry's siblings. I would look at that 1909 death entry for Susan which will confirm parents for you. It will also let you confirm that William and Margaret and family were already in Linlithgow.
It will be impossible to guess who Ann O'Brien was unfortunately without looking at the death cert for her.
Monica :)
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I have came across two other children from 4 Auldhill Crescent,
Child Christie buried on the 13 jan 1948 Still born and a Mary christie buried on the same day she was 3 and 1/2 hours old.
Sicknote
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Sounds like twins Sicknote :'(
Monica
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sorry i have spotted an error from my family tree i had henry as being born in 1885, though im not sure why i did that so i was getting very confused trusting that date, but you are right it all makes a bit more sense now!! sorry for the error, i ahve 2 young children and sometimes i try to enter new info with them on my knee and it leads to errors. sorry
i agree that the girls sound like twins. there are an awful lot of child deaths was it normal to have so many or is it cos they were particularly poor, was there a disease going around at the time that would explain some deaths, i know you cant be sure without death certs but are there any obvious contenders.
i will get into confirming where margaret and william originate from and the death certificate for susan.
thanks again!
rob
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Rob
I've looked at that death cert for Susan in Jan 1909. She shows as born in 1908 (4 months old at her death). Parents confirmed as William Christie and Margaret Gibson, so they had arrived in Linlithgow by late 1908/early 1909 - they show at Bridgend ;) Susan's birth is not showing on Scotlands People (SP), so likely the family came over after her birth between Oct 1908 to Jan 1909.so you will have to order one of the later births via SP or the GROS. There is the on line cut off for births on SP of 1907, anything after this date has to be ordered.
Now in respect of finding out where in Ireland they hailed from, it is incredibly hard to normally find this info out, however a couple of routes open to you:
1. Scottish birth certs from mid 1860s include the date and place of parents' marriage :) So, any of their children's birth certs from Scotland will include this information. You know that Susan doesn't look to have been born in Scotland. There are only 8 Christie births showing in Linlithgow on SP between 1909 - 1919 (avoiding anything from 1920 when you know Henry married which would confuse matters). I would probably look to order either of the Mary births (corresponding with the deaths that Sicknote found). Linlithgow births for a Mary Christie show on SP in 1912 and 1915.
2. The next census due is the release of the 1911 census, rumoured for early release at some point next year. A lot of people of Irish origin simply stated Ireland for a birth place, however, you may be lucky and find that William and Margaret show an actual Irish County for their birth place.
Best route at this stage would be to order the birth of one of the girls, Mary, that died young.
Monica
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Hi, I am the grandson of William Christie and Margaret Gibson who came to Scotland in the first decade of the 20th century from County Tyrone in Ireland and can give you more information if you are still looking for this. As I interpret your enquiry you must be my cousin twice removed.
I am the son of Robert Christie - Harry's youngest brother.
Ken Christie
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hello
we have many stories about robert christie i wonder if any are true.
we have it that he was the elder brother of harry (obviously untrue). he was a jp and a councillor and an mp and that it was through his influence that harrys family were able to aquire a bigger house in a nicer part of town.
we also believe that he wrote a book about the crossing of william and margaret. the story holds that they were on the way to america when they had to make shore in paisley and that the family couldnt afford to wait for the boat to be fixed so had to move more inland to earn money. is any of this true?
we have siblings
Robert 1900, Henry 1902 ( harry), susan 1908-1909, Mary 1912-1914, Mary 1915-1916, William 1924-1924.
siblings after henry are from the burial records and we assume that there were more surviving siblings, if you know any names that would be great.
we have no information on william and margaret other than what we have gathered from burial records and i did find a possible marriage between the 2 in county tyrone.
Married on 5th july 1900 in fivemiletown county tyrone NI clogher parish church of ireland
can you fill in any gaps??
rob
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Hi Rob, guess what! We are related. My name is Deborah Paris and my mother is Catherine Christie, daughter of Elizabeth Jamieson and Henry Christie. My mother is one of 16 children, and her siblings include Susan, Phyllis, Pearl, Brenda, George, James, Harry, Robert, to name a few. My mother grew up in Bridgend Lintlithgow West Lothian. I have been doing research myself and have managed to get copies of birth certificates. I met my grandmother Elizabeth when I was young, and have a photo of her, they lived a quiet life in a small Village. Henry was a shale miner and lorry driver, and came from County Tyrone in Ireland. Unfortunately my mother passed away in 1986. I have 2 sisters Patricia Elizabeth Jamieson Paris and Cathrine Paris. My uncle, George Christie, still lives in Linlithgow and his son George and daughter Karen also. We have another uncle that lives in Weymouth England, Jim Christie. Our uncle George Christie would have all the history you are looking for. Are you planning to visit Scotland? I was thinking of visiting to look at all the family homes and burials and visit some relatives. would be interesting in connecting regarding a trip to do family research if you are interested. I live in Canada. Deborah
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Hi Ken, we are related! My mother is Catherine Paris nee Christie and was very close to your father Robert Christie. I have 2 sisters Elizabeth Patricia Jamieson Paris (deceased) and Cathrine Paris. My mother married Gideon Paris from a long line of Gideon Paris. in 1991 I visited Scotland to visit my Uncle George Christie who lives in Linlithgow. Any info you can provide on our family tree would be excellent. It would be great to arrange a family reunion also.
I live in Oakville, Canada. My parents emigrated to Montreal Canada in 1963.
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Hi
Sorry to butt in on this thread - I have one of my lot (Flora Jane Stewart) married to a Gideon Paris (son of Robert Paris & Euphemia Johnstone)in 1902. Gideon & Flora farmed at Birniehill, Bathgate - just over the hill from Linlithgow & Bridgend. Flora died in 1931 - Gideon re-married to Eleanor Caskey. He died in Leith in 1948. Any connection?
Osprey
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Hi there, yes, Gideon Paris, my father named after his father, Gideon Paris, had a farm in Birnie hill, a dairy farm I believe. My middle name is Eleanor, am named after Eleanor Balfour Caskey. My grandmother Flora Jane Stewart died in her 40s and I believe I have a copy of family death certificates which show death from heart failure and Gideon from thrombosis. I visited my Auntie Effie (named after Euphemia and her married name is Ramage) back in 1991; she lived on Easter Road in Edinburgh, passed away a number of years ago, she had a son Stewart who predeceased her, and he had a twin sister, and another son that lives in England. From what I have been told Eleanor Caskey's father was a Minister of the Church of Scotland. Also, we are related through marriage to the Johnstons, they created the product called "Bovril" which was invented for soldiers in WW2. There is a family tree posted on a website, not sure who created it, but it shows Flora Stewart's family. Here is the link. Are we related?
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/h/o/f/Jeanette-Hoffie-/PDFGENEO3.pdf
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Hi Deborah
Yes we are related - albiet somewhat distantly - Flora Jane Stewart's Mother - Margaret Alexander Bn 1855 was my Great Grandfather's sister. Flora died of Heart Failure in 1931 and Gideon died of Thrombosis in 1948. I have quite a bit of information and some photos from way back on the family and happy to share.
I'll PM you with contact details.
Regards
Osprey
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Hi Deborah, yes I remember George talking about his sister in Canada quite a lot. I was only 6 when your mother left so I cant remember how she looked. I'm in contact with George regularly and would be happy to receive private email from you to research and catch up.
I'm also chatting with Rob on this subject.
Ken
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Slightly off target:
Ken was your father the 'Jannie' at Linlithgow Academy ?
Les
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wow how exciting, lots of family.
would definately be up for a family visit to learn more about the christies in scotland. we live in north wales and have never visited linlithgow. i have 2 small children but could make it a nice camping trip, you are of course welcome in north wales too if you head this way.
i will set to adding all these new names to my family tree
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Hi, I'm not sure if this is still active. My paternal grandfather was George Jamieson son of James Jamieson and Agnes Mitchell/Jamieson. My grandfather was born in 1898. From some of your early posts I believe that I would be related to jollyrob.