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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Maccahc on Saturday 11 October 08 21:00 BST (UK)
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Hi I have found my great grandmothers sisters birth on the IGI it say Belfast Area no.4, does anyone know what this means and what area it pertains to?
Thanks.
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hi,i've usually seen these listed as "urban district" then followed by whatever the number is.i've been looking on the web to see what area of land these districts cover but haven't found anything yet so i'm interested to see if anyone else comes up with an answer.
tony
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Hopefully the following link will help explain:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,161093.0.html
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Hi.
No 4 district is in the Donegal Road area of Belfast. It may take in part of the lower end of the Lisburn Road as well.
Windsor Park football ground is in No 4, so if you use it as a target on the Google Earth website, it should take you to the area. That area of Belfast has not been redeveloped to-date, so if you have a street name it should still be there.
Regards,
Dixie
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Thanks for the replies, I will look into it.
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Hi Maccahc.
Thought I had better up-date the info I gave you before.
Checking what I posted before, I have found out that No 4 straddles the Donegal Road, which makes the info I gave a bit out. At the city end of the Donegal Rd., the area from Roden St., to Shaftesbury Square has been redeveloped on that side of the road. The redevelopment takes in Sandy Row. If the address turns out to be in that area it will be long gone.
Have you an idea of the street name ?, and I'll see if it still exists. If you post the surnames you are looking, someone might be able to fill in the info you require.
You could try the 1912 Ulster Covenant on the PRONI website. They, or their relatives, may have signed it.
Regards,
Dixie
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Hi the IGI reference was for my greatgrandmothers sister Susanna Mcguigan, who was according to the reference, born on 16 July 1873 in Area no.4 Belfast, the link on the IGI reference no. is broken so was not much help..
I dont have any address and was trying to find out more about the family and where they lived as my request for a search for her parents marraige certificate that of John Mcguigan and Sarah Morgan on 20 March 1871 via GRO at Roscommon proved fruitless (they searched 1870-72) even though I have that date of marraige from my greatgrandmothers birth entry on Scotlands people where she was born in Glasgow, Jane Mcguigan in 1879.
I live in Glasgow and have never been to Belfast so have no local knowledge whatsoever.
I really should go one day as I seem to have family lines beginning in every county in Ulster bar Tyrone to date and would probably have to spend a month in the PRONI/GRONI offices!!
I am hoping to narrow down an address or area so I can get more accurate info to order certs etc. otherwise I may find that difficult. John Mcguigans parents were an Edward Mcguigan and a Jane Brown who may still be around at the time and Sarah Morgans parents were James and Isabella ( I have no maiden name for Isabella as yet).
Thanks again for any help.
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Hi.
I found this marriage.
John McGuigan married Jane Brown, on the 17 June 1845, in Drumbeg Church of Ireland, Parish of Drumbeg. Marriage registered in Lisburn.
It may not relate to your McGuigans.
Perhaps someone else will have more info.
Regards,
Dixie
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Thanks Dixie, I will look into that one too as the Edward Mcguigan is obviously information given on the death entry on scotlands people for John Mcguigan, my great great grandfather who died in Glasgow in 1879, by his wife Sarah Morgan.
I know from experience that wifes and siblings or children did not always get parents names right in these entries.
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Just having a read of this post and checked on the Ulster website, AncestryIreland.com - found a marriage for a Sarah MORGAN in 1869 - father shown as James- but no corresponding marriage for a John McGuigan
There are 2 John McGuigan's marrying in Antrim - both with a father called Edward - one in 1872 , the other in 1877
Cheers
Kiwi
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Thanks kiwi, I have had a look at the site but not sure its worth signing up for, the marraiges in 1869 or 1872 may have possibilities, certainly 1869 would be outwith the date range the GRO searched but is quite a bit out from the date given on my great grandmothers birth entry which I imagine was given by her parents.
I need to find out which RC parishes are in area 4 at the time to help narrow down a possible church or church record. I am assuming they married in RC as my great grandmother was RC, that however is a dangerous presumption on my part and has proven wrong on searching other family lines but I have to start narrowing this one down to make the search more effective.
Cheers.
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Hi Maccahc.
Try Belfast Family History website at,
www.belfastfamilyhistory.com
A number of McGuigans in the 1901 /1911 census returns on it, in No 4 and local to it. You might pick up something from it.
Dixie
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Another topic here:
Topic: Urban districts Belfast
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,298063.0.html
You can find this topic and the one mentioned by scotmum under Urban numbers in the
RootsChat Reference Library (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/index.php) => Lexicon (click here) (http://surname.rootschat.com/lexicon/reflib-lexicon.php?letter=U)
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Thanks for the replies that help me clarify the area.
I have had a look at the google maps and many of these streets still exist. I note St Peters rc cathedral was completed around 1860`s and of current rc churches would certainly be the nearest to this area.
Would anyone be able to tell me if thats a good starting point at St Peters? or were there other rc churches they would more likely have married in....presuming that it was an RC marraige (which I will go on until eliminated or otherwise).
Thanks again.
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Thanks again for replies on this subject. Just a wee update, I eventually got the marraige from IFHF and this confirmed they married on 6th march 1872 in St Peters rc cathedral, Sarahs father is John not James Morgan and the Morgans were helpfully mentioned as coming from Ballinderry, Co Antrim.
They lived in Mcdonald St which I assume is no longer existant in Belfast as I cant find it on the maps and this may help others looking for streets encopmpassed by Area no. 4.
I dont understand why roscommon could not find it though it may not have been registerd civilly???
Anyway next daft question, does anyone know what the rc parish in Ballinderry would have been at this time....say 1830-70, do they still exist and would the records exist anywhere?? Thanks again.
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Ballinderry Parish was in the R.C. Parish of Aghagallon and Ballinderry according to 'Genealogical Atlas of Ireland' but I can't help with the Church records. RosemaryJoan
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The name of the street in St. Peter's Parish was McDonnell Street which mat help.
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Are you sure it's Ballinderry, Co Antrim you are looking for? There is also a Ballinderry civil parish on the Co Derry/Tyrone border with a Roman Catholic Church you could try.
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Thats great, Mcdonnell street may be easier to find.
The marraige entry said that Sarah Morgans parents John and Isabella were from Ballinderry, Co. Antrim and she was RC so I am presuming they were and that some church records there may ( or may not) survive. I will continue to look into it when I have the chance, many thanks again for the helpful replies.
RosemaryJoan is that genealogical atlas available online?
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No it's not, It's an American Publication, but I find it invaluable. I am willing to do look-ups in it. It cost me $20.
Here are the details
'A New Genealogical Atlas of Ireland', 2nd edition
by Brian Mitchell, in 2002
published by Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.Baltimore, Maryland,USA
RosemaryJoan
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P.S. McDonnell Street ran from Albert Street to the Grosvenor Road and I am sure some kind soul can tell you the name of the nearest R.C. church.
RosemaryJoan
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GoogleEarth shows McDonnell Street still there between Grosvenor Rd and Albert Street. There's what looks like a school on Grosvenor Road nearby but not sure what it is called.
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I've just looked at my 1931 Belfast street map, and lo and behold, St. Peter's R.C. Church is just across Albert Street, in Milford Street, a short walk away from McDonnell Street.
RosemaryJoan
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Thats grand and confirms that it was more than likely Mcdonnell rather than Mcdonald St they lived in. I can look for more Mcguigans in that area now, excellent to have some good local knowledge. Thanks also for the lookups offer RosemaryJoan.
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Maccahc - Being one for a challenge I had a look for your Morgans in Ballinderry.
There is a small fragment of the 1851 census online and guess what?
LEGATIRRIFF TOWNLAND, BALLINDERRY,CO.ANTRIM
John Morgan Head (of family), 48,weaver, born Co. Antrim
Isabella Morgan, wife, 40 born Co. Antrim
John Morgan, son 17, weaver, born ditto
Isabella Morgan, daughter 14,weaver, born ditto
Jane Morgan, daughter, 11, winder, born ditto
MARY MORGAN, daughter 8, winder, born ditto
Sarah Morgan, daughter, 6 no occupation, born ditto
Hugh Morgan, son, 1 ditto ditto
They were not there in 1861 when Griffiths Valuation was taken, but
in Belfast in 1861 there were 6 John Morgans living there. They may have moved up to Belfast for work. One of them lived in Linden Street, (a short walk from McDonnell Street), and in 1877, no John Morgan living in Linden Street, BUT John McGuigan, dealer, lived in number 43 - not there in 1880. These streets still exist. They are on my modern Street map of Belfast.
Does this fit in with your information??
There are possible marriages listed in Ancestry Ireland for some of these children of John (Co. Antrim) and you might be able to double check the place of their marriage on the new LDS site.
Enough for now.
RosemaryJoan
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RosemaryJoan that is fantastic information. I knew very little about the Morgans other than my greatgreat grandmother Sarah was married to John Mcguigan in Belfast around 1871( now confirmed as 1872). They had a daughter Susanna in area 4 (now I know its mcdonnel street) in 1873.
Between that date and 1875 they moved to Glasgow where son John was born and in 1879 my greatgrandmother Jane Mcguigan ( now know where the family name Jane comes from too!) was born, I am informed by internet `cousins` they may have had another sister Margaret but I cant find a birth for her here or in Belfast so am not sure about that one, Sarahs husband John died in 1879 so my greatgrandmother never knew him.
However you have given me a great deal of information on a line of the family I know very little about, so many thanks again, if I can ever be of any help with Glasgow lookups please contact me. I have a 4 week old baby and a lot less time than ususal but can help out, the poor law records here are a superb resource.
Cheers
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I was at GRONI this morning and they have a sheet on the wall giving rough indications of the area covered by each sub district within Belfast. I jotted it down for the benefit of all those Rootschatters who have been scratching their heads over when these places are on the map. Hope this helps :)
Belfast Registration Districts
Urban
1 Fleet St, York Dock, Jennymount St
2 Limestone Rd, New Lodge
3 Shankill, Clifton Park Ave, Old Lodge Rd
4 Lisburn Rd, Botanic, Ulsterville
5 Divis St, Millfield, Norfolk St, Argyle St
6 Eglantine Ave, Wellington Pk, University St, Rugby Rd
7 Greencastle, Whitehouse, Whitewell
8 Woodvale Ave, Ligoneil Rd, Alliance St, Ballygomartin Rd
9 Falls Rd, Broadway
10 Springfield Rd, Brookmount, Mayo St, Cambrai St
11 Ormeau Rd, Ravenhill Rd,Woodstock Rd, Castlereagh Rd
12 Beersbridge Rd, Connswater
13 Connsbrook, Belmont Church Rd, Bloomfield Ave, Knock
14 Belmont Rd, Ballyhackamore
15 May St, Joy St, Bosnia St
16 Albertbridge Rd, Mountpottinger Rd, Queens Island
Rural
1 Whiteabbey, Cloughfern, Jordanstown
2 Cavehill Rd, Ballysillan, Glencairn
3 Finaghy, Stockmans Lane
4 Glengormley, Carnmoney, Ballyhenry
Castlereagh
1 Dundonald, Gilnahirk
2 Holywood
3 Cregagh Rd, Ballygowan Rd, Ladas Drive
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That's great information akanex2. Thanks very much. RosemaryJoan
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Hi I just saw your post on Roots Chat. I also have Morgan's from Northern Ireland. They were from Lisburn, but as I have other relatives from Balinderry (I believe a parish in Lisburn), there may be a relationship. My great great grandfather was Hugh Morgan born about 1845, I think in Lisburn. Their family was Church of Ireland though. I don't know Hugh's parents. He moved to Canada in the early 1900's and his wife was Ann Jane Vernon.
thanks
Gayle
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Gayle,
Weccome to Rootschat. I have done a brief look-up on your information and your dates appear to be slightly out.
14 Aug 1857 Hugh Morgan married Ann Jane Vernon in Lisburn Church of Ireland Cathedral.
Hugh's father possibly Hugh and Ann's father James.
Regards
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Thank you so much for looking this up. The date I had was an estimate due to the birthdate of my great grandmother. I found this yesterday on the internet regarding the construction of a church in Lisburn. I was thinking Ann Jane's father may have been James:
Plans and specifications were prepared by the late Sir. Charles Lanyon. Two local builders, Messrs. Arthur Morgan and James Vernon, were appointed to build the edifice with seating for 500 worshippers, at a total cost of £4,800. The “New Church” as it then was called was opened for worship on 20th November 1842 and=2 0the special preacher was The Hon. and Rev. Henry Ward, Rector of Killinchy and son of the Second Viscount Bangor. The church is built of black stone, chiselled from a design of Mr. Laynon. The tower is a beautiful structure, 72 feet in height; it is of the ancient Gothic school of architecture, surmounted by castellated turrets.
During the first 21 years of its life, the “New Church” remained under the general control of the Cathedral of Christ Church, Lisburn, otherwise Lisburn Cathedral, as a Chapel of Ease, and its first Curate was the Rev. John Nash Griffin; followed in 1845 by the Rev. J. Hudson, whose incumbency was of a short duration. He was succeeded by the Rev. Hartley Hodson in 1846 who was appointed Rector of Derrykeighan in 1863.
It does fit in with the information you gave me. thank you for taking the time to look it up
Gayle