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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lozza60 on Saturday 11 October 08 10:34 BST (UK)
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I am hoping that someone can find
Henry Edward Harris born 1833 Great Torrington he migrated to Australia in March 1855.
I think his parents were John Harris, who may have been an Excise Man, and Eliza Makepeace. I think that they married in Gloucester in 1830.
I would love to find any information on this family eg: Henry's siblings, place of birth for his parents
Thanks in anticipation
Lozza
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Hi Lozza60
I think Ive got him Henry on the 1841 Census for Great Torrington, Devon.
Ancestry has transcribed him as 19 however I would put money on it that he is 9 as the enumerator or checker of the census has made a mark on the page before the age - its the same on the entry below Henry.
Anyway here is the transcription
1841 - Class: HO107; Piece 221; Book: 22; Civil Parish: Great Torrington; County: Devon; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 23; Page: 40
Fore Street
Thomas COWDRY - 25 - Surgeon - Y
Mary COWDRY - 20 - Y
Grace GILBERT - 20 - F.S. - Y
Henry HARRIS - 9 - Parish App - Y
I think this must mean Henry was a Parish Apprentice - althouth Im afraid I dont know what that really means... im sure someone out there will know.
I'll see if I can find him on the 1851 census now...
Graham
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Hi
The IGI shows a marriage for
HARRIS John Collins
MAKEPEACE Eliza
1 Feb 1830 Westbury-On-Trym Gloucestershire
Karenlee
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I wonder if these children are connected?
England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906
Name: Mary Eliza Collins Harris
Father: John Harris
Baptism: 25 Apr 1840 - Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Name: James Robert Collins Harris
Father: John Harris
Baptism: 2 Sep 1846 - Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Graham
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Hi Lozza and Graham,
Yes I found him too Graham. Parish Apprentices were generally orphans (though not always the case - other possibilities are they were deserted or some other reason that the parents couldn't care for them and they were dependent on the parish for their upkeep) For whatever reason the parish was responsible for them and so they were apprenticed out at an early age. :'( I wonder if this is a sister.
HO107/221/23 Folio 29 Page 53
Mill Street
Great Torrington
BANBERRY Charles 59 Y Yeoman
BANBERRY Grace 52 Y
BANBERRY Richard 15 Y
HARRIS Mary 10 Y
GORDON Thomas 14 Y Male Servant
DAVEY Joseph 11 Y Parish Ap
Cheers Kris :D
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Nice one Kris!
I Missed that one! :D
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Hi Kris and Graham
Thanks for the speedy reply.
If you have the right Henry, a parish app, it would explain his involvement in The Ancient Order of Forresters when he was older. He became a Chief Ranger The Foresters were a non-profit organisation set up to provide financial and social benefits as well as support to members and their families in times of unemployment, sickness, death disability and old age.
It is interesting that he may have had a sister that was also living elsewhere.
I am interested to know if you have found this family on any other census
Thanks once again for your effort
Lozza
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Hi Lozza,
Interesting about Henry and the Forresters
Sorry I can't pinpoint him in 1851. I just can't find one born in the right place. There are quite a few born at other places in Devon about the right time, some not with families but nothing stands out to me. What was his line of work in Australia?
As to John Collins HARRIS the only ones I can spot are in Cornwall
29 Jan 1809 Talland parents John and Mary
12 Nov 1809 Callington parents John and Mary
There is also listing parents as John and Mary a
Johanna Collings HARRIS 25 Dec 1807 St Martins on Looe Bay
and a
Richard Collings HARRIS 14 Oct 1810 St Stephen by Launceston
and a
George Collins HYRROSE 18 May 1820 Talland
I also note the death of a John Collins HARRIS 8 Jan 1811 St Stephen by Launceston
John HARRIS = Mary COLLINS 16 Dec 1806 Talland
one other thing is Wiltshire Quarter Sessions Marborough (Prison) 26 June 1836 John Collins HARRIS. Perhaps if you post that in Wiltshire someone may be able to help.
Cheers Kris :D
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Hi Kris
Henry was a dealer/trader in old wares and antiques. He gave his occupation as Mariner on his marriage certificate. On the same certificate John's occupation was Excise Man, do you have any suggestions where I could follow this up.
The Cornwall connection could be on the right track. I seem to remember that it was suggested at one time that Eliza Makepeace might have originated in Cornwall.
I have one more favour, are you able to find John and Eliza in the 1831 census?
Cheers
Lozza
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Sorry Lozza,
1841 census is the census of any real value to genealogists. Prior to that the census was really only number counts with only the head listed. Very few of these exist I am afraid. :'(
I would not think Eliza was Cornish - Makepeace is certainly not a cornish name
Kris :D
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OK, thanks for your help Kris
Lozza
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Lozza,
I would want to find out about that Wiltshire quarter session entry. Surely there are not too many John Collins Harris's about. :-\
Somebody may be able to follow up on it for you. Put a request on te Wiltshire Board. ;)
I am not sure that these index entries necessarily mean he himself was on trial. I had one the other day where the person mentioned was listed as a Police Constable so maybe he was a witness in a case.
Saying that of course there were excise men who got involved in smuggling. From the index we just don't know who he was or what this is about, it would be worth finding out. If he was an excise man he may have travelled around quite a bit.............Kris :D
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Kris
I will follow this up. Should I post on the Wiltshire Lookups or General questions?
Lozza
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Hi Lozza,
Place the request on the Wiltshire Lookup Request Board for Wiltshire Quarter Request.
John Collins HARRIS 26 June 1836 prison Marlborough.
I hope someone is able to find the details for you
All the best..............Kris :D
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Thanks very much Kris
The hunt continues, I'll do it now
Lozza
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I do hope someone is able to access the quarter sessions for you.
I did take a look at the National Archives Site trying to find anything on him and Customs and Excise but alas there is no-one by that name listed in their online catalogue that I can find. These pages tell us the codes are likely CUST and IR. I suspect all is not online and I fear you may need to go to Kew in person (or have it done for you) to access these records. :'(
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/guide/trade/customs.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=234
Lets just see if we do any good in the quarter sessions. Here's hoping.
Did you get Eliza's name from Australian Records? Eliza is the only Makepeace I can find married in Westbury Upon Trym (plenty of Harris) Just another thought is the full record of this marriage may shed some clues - curious as to witnesses and are John and Eliza listed as of anywhere other than Westbury on Trym. Also does it list John as being with the Customs/Excise Office. I have noticed in some of my parish records (Cornwall) this type of thing is often noted at marriage. (something like sojourner of HM customs)
Good Luck...........Kris :D
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Hi all
The Wiltshire Quarter Sessions for June 1836 were reported in the Bristol Mercury for Saturday July 9th 1836. The list of prisoners mentions a 'John Harris' who must be the same as John Collins Harris. It doesn't say what he was imprisoned for, although he was Imprisoned with Hard Labour for 14 days.
Hope this helps
Graham
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Hi Kris and Graham
Thanks for the info Graham, do you know where I can follow this up?
On son Henry's death cert John Harris, gentleman, and Eliza Makepeace are listed as his parents but on Henry's marriage cert his parents are John Harris, Excise Man and Eliza Mansfield are his parents. I think Mansfield is incorrect as Makepeace has been handed down as a family name. Both certificates are from Victoria, Australia.
I think that I will have to find Henry's birth cert and work back from there.
Cheers
Lozza