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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: digital1 on Friday 10 October 08 22:46 BST (UK)

Title: Missing on census night?
Post by: digital1 on Friday 10 October 08 22:46 BST (UK)
I have five children listed on a census for a particular address, all identified as "son" or "daughter", specifically of John and Julia.  But no John or Julia.  Would this be because John and Julia were missing on census night or might there be another reason? 
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Ecneps on Friday 10 October 08 23:55 BST (UK)
Hi,

Excuse me for first checking what may seem obvious -  are they listed at the top of the page, if so have you checked for their parents on the previous page (which could be missing) ?  If there is no-one listed as Head of their household, the parents have probably been missed off.

If you'd like to give full details maybe someone will be able to help find them

Kind regards
Barbara
 :)
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: digital1 on Saturday 11 October 08 00:04 BST (UK)
Yes, they're at the top of the page!  It didn't even occur to me.  That's why I asked, in case I missed something obvious.  I'd be very grateful if someone could help - it's difficult to get library time at the moment.   The parents potentially provide a huge clue.

1861 census - Lancs - Tyldesley - Flaherty
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Annette7 on Saturday 11 October 08 00:18 BST (UK)
Full family details:

John Flaherty   48    b. Galway, Ireland
Julia  Flaherty   40           ditto
Edward Flaherty 22         ditto
John Flaherty      22         ditto
James Flaherty    16         ditto
John Flaherty       11    b. Tyldesley, Lancs.
Mary Flaherty        6             ditto
Thomas Flaherty   4             ditto   

So indeed children of John and Julia.

Annette
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 11 October 08 00:21 BST (UK)
Hi Barbara...I think..

This is the 1881..

RG11/3841/129/39...John/Julia Mullin

The 1861 is

RG9/2805/71/47..Julia Corless

I havent got access to images at the moment but the reason I know the Refs are because I noted them on my pad last night while looking up the Corless family for Digital1

Jane
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Ecneps on Saturday 11 October 08 00:32 BST (UK)
Glad to help!  Sometimes the obvious things are the easiest to miss  :)

edit just adding the lodgers at same address as I realise from what Jane said that the Corless family is connected

1861  RG9/2805  Folio 70 Page  46/7
48 Blenheim Street, Tyldesley
John Flaherty     head m 48 Farm Labourer   Ireland Galway
Julia       "         wife   m 40                                   "
Edward  "        son    s  22 Cotton Spinner           "
John       "          "      s  18 Cotton Piecer              "
James     "          "         16 Cotton Packer Up        "
William    "          "         11 Scholar                 Tyldesley
Mary       "        dau         6     "                             "
Thomas  "         son        4      "                             "
/
Patrick Langin  lodger m 25 Farm Labourer 
Margaret  "         "       m 26 Cotton Dressing Frame Tenter
Mary         "         "           13
Martha Fenerty   "      m  22 Farm Labourer
Bridget     "          "     s   17 Cotton Dressing Frame Tenter
Patrick      "          "          10 Cotton Scavenger
Ellen   Corless      "          10 Cotton Dressing Frame Tenter
Julia          "          "     s    18        "         "         "          "
Matthew Loftus    "     s   16  Cotton Spinner
Bridget Crorren (or Craven) 19 Cotton Cop Winder
all lodgers born Galway

Barbara


Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 11 October 08 00:40 BST (UK)
Ooooooppppssss That will teach me to just dive in LOL..

Sorry.....

Jane  :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Ecneps on Saturday 11 October 08 00:44 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

That's ok, though not sure what you're sorry about! I didn't realise you'd been looking for the family, so probably I dived in not you  ;D
The more the merrier

Barbara
 :)
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 11 October 08 00:56 BST (UK)
Hi Barbara

It was another post from Digital1 that I helping with last night which involved a Julia Corless(she married a John Mullin)

Here it is..I spent ages looking to see if they were in England for the 1851 but couldnt see anything.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,333194.msg2130633.html#msg2130633

Jane
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Ecneps on Saturday 11 October 08 01:09 BST (UK)
Well as the younger sister Ellen was 10 on the 1861 census and born Galway I would imagine the family were still there for the 1851...
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: digital1 on Saturday 11 October 08 01:16 BST (UK)
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I feel so stupid missing the obvious - too much time staring at printouts and end up seeing nothing.

...except for maybe one thing, which is why I started looking at the Flaherty family.  Julia and Ellen (age 10) are lodgers with no mother in sight, and I can't find her.  I wondered about Julia's name - not that common an Irish name (Julia) - and their apparently motherless state.  However, it makes sense if Julia Flaherty is in fact Aunt Julia. She's about the right age.  Which makes her unmarried name Julia Corless (or have I missed something else obvious here?).  If that's right, it makes it a whole lot easier to identify the family in Galway.  They're not identified as nieces, though.
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Ecneps on Saturday 11 October 08 02:03 BST (UK)
It might be worth posting a request on the Irish board to see if anyone can help with the Corless family pre-1861 in Galway, otherwise it's just guesswork I'm afraid.  Unfortunately sometimes census just list people as Lodgers when they are actually related, but you can't be certain of the relationship without some link by certificates etc

I see Julia was married by the 1871 census, haven't looked for Ellen, have you found her, if with the Flahertys maybe a relationship shown

Kind regards,
Barbara
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: digital1 on Saturday 11 October 08 11:58 BST (UK)
Yes indeed, only guesswork - what I need is Julia's missing mother, or at least her name for sure.  A Catherine pops up later (roughly the right age) but again no indication of any relationship.  There's no mention of a mother on Julia's marriage cert, or that of the groom.  An Ellen Corless in Leigh married in 1866, just before Julia - it would make her about 15.  I don't have this cert yet. I'll try the Galway board again but I fear a dead end here for both John and Julia.  Thanks for all your help - I hadn't realised this census section was here until last night.  I usually just go straight to two or three specific boards (or I'd spend all night reading posts instead of researching :))
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: Sisterjane on Saturday 11 October 08 12:41 BST (UK)
Hi Digital



I take it you are talking about Julia Corless here..

You say "a Catherine pops up later..roughly the right age"

The right age for who ?

We have no Idea what Julias mother was called so how would we begin to know her age..

Marriage licenses do not have mothers name on them.

The only way you will find here mothers name is by buying Julias birth cert..or finding the parish she was born in and searching the church for either birth or christening.

Its pointless trying to guess a the mothers age..its easy to think that say Julia was born in 1848 so maybe her mother was 21..but maybe Julia had older siblings who stayed in Ireland..you just never know...

Jane  :) :)
Title: Re: Missing on census night?
Post by: digital1 on Saturday 11 October 08 13:05 BST (UK)
Absolutely.  Too many unknowns.  No mother for Julia, no idea where in Galway she came from, no idea of previous or even other existing siblings - I'm reduced to guessing to see if following a wild card produces any information.  Thanks for trying to help, though.  It's the usual Irish history "black hole" I'm afraid.