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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Treetotal on Friday 10 October 08 15:50 BST (UK)
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I have been passed this one by a neighbour who would like to know what the picture type is and a rough date...I would appreciate any help or comments please :D
Thanks ~ Carol
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Hi Carol ;)
It reminds me of one of those photos that you put into a viewer to get 3D effect
Judy ;)
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Hi Judy
It does doesn't it...I think they were called Magic Lantern slides but not sure...this was found in a bureau that was a family piece and inherited by my neighbour....it lay undiscovered for years :o
I think it is two images.
Carol
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I tried to get the image a bit sharper for you
eeeeeps I didnt intend to post it THAT big ,and when I tried to make it smaller lol it posted both images the same size.
I am SUCH a noob, :'(
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Thanks Tabbitha that's very helpful and kind of you to take the trouble :-*...I have put it on in it's raw state for photo type identification.
Carol
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I think it is 2 different images.
If I cut the right hand section and overlay it in the left I can line up the static parts of the image exactly (ie the foreground does not move relative to the background as you get with a stereo image)
I can't demonstrate that here.
These are some slight difference in the people however.
Rog
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Possibly taken as two seperate photos to gve the stereo effect with a slight change of position of the 'sitters' between the two shots.
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Thanks for your input Rog and Lookinforold...I can see what you mean now that Tabbitha has lightened it....can anyone else see yhe photographer reflected in the window :o :o :o
Carol
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Stereograph?
Yes, I can see the photographer reflected in the window! Or maybe Marley's ghost...a very mid-Victorian looking group with top hat and all :D When was this kind of photo invented? Because there's not too much that's dateable in the clothing I think...I'll have another look later...
Cheers,
China
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Hi China...I'm Glad someone else can see it...I thought at first it was someone peering through the window ;D ;D ;D
I don't think my neighbours know much about this family except that they owned a village Post Office.
Carol
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Thanks for your input Rog and Lookinforold...I can see what you mean now that Tabbitha has lightened it....can anyone else see yhe photographer reflected in the window :o :o :o
Carol
Ooooooooooooooooooooooh Ive discovered a ghost LOL.
Cany anyone make the image smaller and repost,as the detail is so much better when it not so big as I posted *cough*
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It looks like "The Ghost" is holding a lantern but when I look at the back of the glass some of the black paint has come off the back...so it is damage to the image ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Well at first I thought it was the camera but then he would be holding the flash over his head, wouldn't he...so maybe it really is someone looking out the window... :P
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Wonder if it isn't for a sterioptican? Found some pictures of the plates on ebay (see link below) and each picture in a set seems slightly different.
www.rootschat.com/links/04hr
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Oh no! The old fool with his crayons has been at it again!!!!
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That's really good Aghadowey....thanks for that 8)
Enjaybee....Well done...not do much of a fool.. your input is very gratefully received.... ;) you get a gold star ;D ;D ;D
I really appreciate all interest shown in this...you learn soo much on here :-*
I wish it was mine :-\
Thanks again to everyone for your input :-*
Carol
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Well...there seem to be any number of spelling variations on this one ;D
Stereopticon is not 3-dimensional
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereopticon
Stereograph or stereogram is 3-D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereograph
Stereopticons were invented in 1850, on glass naturally because that's what was available then. So yours could date back to then.
Cheers,
China
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Oh no! The old fool with his crayons has been at it again!!!!
Wow great job :o
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Looking over this one again...see the distance between the arms of the two men...it's different in each photo. Also the distance between the woman's head and the arm of the man closest to her...it's different. Definitely 2 different photos, and I think too much of a diff just to account for it being a stereo photo...just my opinion...
Cheers,
China
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Carol, is the back of the glass painted black? It looks fairly dark...
If it's painted black then I doubt whether it's anything projectable, more likely to be viewed through a stereoscope...but I've not seen any stereoscopic photos on glass before. It's a bit of a mystery!
I think rather than being taken at the same time through different lenses, the photos were taken separately through the same lens, with the camera moved slightly to take the second pic from a different angle. If I cross my eyes I can see the picture in 3D :)
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I did some minor tweaking in case anyone else wants to try the "crosseyed" technique :o ;D
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Has the face in the window disappeared in the 2nd photo? :o
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I have a stereoscope, dated 1860. The pictures are both the same size and you cant see the difference.The camera was mounted on a sliding bar, one picture taken then moved to the side and the second picture taken.
However mine are mounted on card. I don't feel this is a stereo picture, we can imagine with the new magic of photography no space on the plate must be wasted thus the extra part picture.
For those who missed the point (old fool with crayons) my, picture repair and colouring was described as "a child with crayons" by a very prominent site in the U.S.A. It still hurts. Not such an old fool after all.
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Has the face in the window disappeared in the 2nd photo? :o
Yep! ;D
Maybe one of the people outside told them to nick off before the second pic was taken ;D
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For those who missed the point (old fool with crayons) my, picture repair and colouring was described as "a child with crayons" by a very prominent site in the U.S.A. It still hurts. Not such an old fool after all.
Pfft. What would they know! ALL fools, old and young, with or without crayons, are welcome and appreciated here on the Rootschat Photo Restoration Board! :D :D :D
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One of those enterprising type who can aford a camera, and wants to see how the working class lives, comes around the district, (you still get um only they go to other parts of the world now.)
All the family come out to have their photy took, except Grandma, who can't get any further than to the window, where she can look out. To me it seems as though they are grouped knowing that she is there.
By the time the enterprising type has decided he will take the second photo, Grandma has had to sit down and Grandpa has changed his possition.
Mike, I think the other site deserves a smack with my rolled up newspaper, which I keep for swatting spiders in the Bar of the BBC Family Trees Messageboard. :(
Well, you know me, I couldn't miss this one out. This is our ag labs, folks, our working class, not our champagne glass.
We owe it to them.
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Has the face in the window disappeared in the 2nd photo? :o
Yep! ;D
Maybe one of the people outside told them to nick off before the second pic was taken ;D
:-\ REFRACTION
The camera was probably almost at right angles to the window giving a mirror effect thus allowing us to see the reflection of the photographer and was then moved slightly to the right, hence the face disappearing as the angle was different.
The space between the corner of the open gate and the edge of the door is less in the second picture than the first so the camera must be closer to it.
The man with the cap has turned his head to follow the camera even though the photographer probably told them not to move as in the first picture he seems to be looking slightly to the right of the camera.
I've been wondering if it's possible to cover half a glass plate negative and expose just half the plate at a time and perhaps this was someone's experiment at trying to take a stereo photo?
Just a thought... ::)
best wishes, Tony
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The photographer has certainly moved by the rh photo, as not only has the shed door angle changed, but you can see the old gate (or whatever it is) in the rh picture and it's only on the edge of the lh one.
I like Paula's grandma hypothesis, though. ;) it doesn't necessarily rule that one out.
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They have certainly left a space for her, Igor.
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Hi Folks,
My other half thinks that this is and old paper negative which goes in a big camera which winds it on.
That paper in the camera is impregnated with a light sensitive surface. The picture is taken like a cine film where it is rolled along inside the camera.
This explains why the face in the window has dissapeared and the men on the right have moved slightly from the picture on the left. note the very slight difference in the face angles.
This is he thinks a carbon print. Light sensitive paper was an early invention with bichromate [which preceded bromide and dry plates, used instead of silver,] it was developed with a weak solution of ammonia and water. Thus the picture was produced!
I know nothing about these things! But 'he is the expert' he did this sort of thing as an apprentice!
Rabbit B ???
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It's definitely on glass, though, Rabbit...not a carbon print :-\
My guess is that, as Tony suggested, it's a glass negative that was exposed one half at a time (which would have been possible with a dry plate - so after 1880-ish) and was intended to be used as a negative in order to print up a stereo positive on paper...someone decided they'd try to make it look like an Ambrotype and painted it black on the back, but the effect is not quite right, because Ambrotypes were under-exposed negatives using collodion emulsion, and this is a fully-exposed negative using a gelatin emulsion. So it looks a bit dull and not very contrasty.
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What ever it is, it's a smashing picture.
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Looking over this one again...see the distance between the arms of the two men...it's different in each photo. Also the distance between the woman's head and the arm of the man closest to her...it's different. Definitely 2 different photos, and I think too much of a diff just to account for it being a stereo photo...just my opinion...
Cheers,
China
Hi China,
OH agrees with you entirely about the two pictures, sometimes they were joined together so that one could be 'touched up' [printing term] with the original in sight. OH has done it so often you see.
He is adamant that that is is a paper neg, because that also accounts for it being dark like that!
Sorry Prue, I am just doing the writing! he is sticking to his guns on this one. Please don't shoot the scribe! I know nooooothing! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Me, I agree with PaulaToo, it is a nice picture! 8) 8)
Rabbit B ;D
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Hi Guys...Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I havehad Family staying over for the week-end.
Wow what interesting points of view and how knowledgeable you all are on photographic techniques.
Prue...Thanks for the tweaked version..it's so much easier to see...it is on glass measuring six and a half by four and a quarter inches and the back is painted black!...The damaged areas is where the paint has worn away.
Paula...thanks too for your lovely restore...I'ts much appreciated :-*
Emjaybee....If you enjoy what you do and people appreciate your efforts...that's all that matters....you can only get better ;)....Your work can always get better....the person who made that remark...will always be rude >:(
Thank you all for your time, your imput and your interest :-* :-* :-*
Carol
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I think that the person in the window is someone inside, NOT a reflection. The head is the same size as those in the pictures. If it were a reflection of the photographer, as the image has to travel twice the distance, being a picture of a relection, it would be a lot smaller. That's my thoughts anyway. I think it was a 'onlooker' and moved away after they thought the picture had been finished after the first shot, or had looked out as the second shot was taken.
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Having looked carefully at the copies of the picture one can say:
a) the picture is on glass
b) it is stereoscopic but the one glass plate shows two images taken a short while apart in time because of slight movements in the foreground figures and the disappearance of the face at the window
c) the glass has black paint at the back
d) the figures are dressed in clothes that date the image possibly to the middle to late 1850s and certainly not much later than 1860.
The picture is therefore almost certainly an ambrotype, and an unusual one, since although ambrotypes are very common stereoscopic ambrotypes are quite rare. But quite how this particular image was produced is a little puzzle since the two differing images, presumably negatives if this is indeed a true ambrotype, are on the same glass plate. This suggests that after exposing half the plate a single lens was slid across the front of the camera for the second exposure of the other half of the plate. I do not know.
Abergynolwyn
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As an afterthought anybody interested in a strange and exceedingly creepy real-life puzzle about the taking of a Victorian stereoscopic picture in which mysterious faces appear at a window in one image but are absent in the next should buy the paperback version of Kate Summerscale's brilliant book "The Suspicions of Mr Whicher." (Bloomsbury Books)
Abergynolwyn
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Hi Abergynolwyn...Thanks for your input....that makes very interesing reading...It's much appreciated :D
Carol
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As an afterthought anybody interested in a strange and exceedingly creepy real-life puzzle about the taking of a Victorian stereoscopic picture in which mysterious faces appear at a window in one image but are absent in the next should buy the paperback version of Kate Summerscale's brilliant book "The Suspicions of Mr Whicher." (Bloomsbury Books)
Abergynolwyn
How odd. I had an e-mail from a book shop today, Buy 1; get 1 free and that very book is shown!
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I just started enhancing the original images, and has anyone else noticed the face in the window on the left picture, and no face on the right?
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I noticed and had my own theory, message 25, Mort
Terrific photos aren't they