RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: HawkesFH on Wednesday 08 October 08 12:17 BST (UK)
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Having researched the Lee side of the family for 20 years i am still not at the point where i can confirm that Dinah / Dianna Lee, daughter od Zachariah Lee, was the granddaughter of a Boswell. Diana married Robert George hatton at hammersmith July 19th 1866, she was just about 16 when they married.
Dianna was born in hayes, Middlesex and her parents, Zachariah and Charlotte.had other children :
Britannia, Rosetta, Ambrose and Robert.
I have accumulated quite alot of details, but i am still not sure of a Boswell connection.
Anyone else found this family connects with the Boswells?
TY
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I dont really know of a Boswell connection with this family. I do know there was 2 Zacky Lees knocking about at the same time and both married to a Charlotte. Fighting Zacky is your one whos on the 1861 census - Brittania married a Gregory. The other married Charlotte Hammond who had previously been married to Riley Boss. That Zacky was transported.
Credit to **
Moderator Comment: References to a living person removed at that person's request.
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Thanks for that.
I first read of a possible connection about 15 - 16 years ago in an article in Family Tree Magazine about the funeral of Rani (?) Boswell, Davy and zacky Lee were mentioned in the article, i've mislaid the article but i have always thought a link would appear somewhere!
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Hi again
On the death certificate of Zachariah Lee, 1875, he is 72 and the informant in Joseph Boswell of High Street, Slough, Nephew.
On the 1881 census a possible Joseph is living with Wife sarah in St Paul's Middlesex, and when this joseph is found on the 1861 census he is living with his father Levi Boswell, a tinker living in a tent in middlesex, and in the next tent (household) is zachariah boswell, who aooears to be brother to Josephs father Levi.
I wonder if these two brothers are the children of Urani and Levo Boswell?
If we have connected the right James Boswell to Zachariah's death registration then there is a definate connection, assuming qw have the right zachariah's death of course.
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Levi Boswell married Urania Lee.
B.cir 1847 Wanstead Ex d.1924 Farnborough
Urania was b.cir 1851 d/o Abraham Lee and died 1933 Farnborough.
Levis father was Zachariah Boswell c.1827 Pebworth Glos who married Justinia Deighton b.cir 1824 Rainham Ex
Zachariah Boswells brother was Daniel Levi Boswell who married Mary Ann Lee, d/o Charles Lee & Union Chilcott.
Both Zachariah and Daniel Levi Boswell were sons of Clark.
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I have found info on the zacky lee who was transported:
Zachariah Lee
Norfolk Chronicle and Norwich Gazette, August 8th 1835. (extract)
Zachariah Lee, 25, Charles Boss 25, Robert Boss 17 and Major Lee 19 were all indicted of stealing two horses, the property of Thomas Warman of Carbrooke, and a further indictment of stealing two other horses. Found guilty, the prisoners were sentenced to be transported for life.
Zachariah Lee was pardoned/granted Ticket of Leave 1842-5.
He died in 1847 in New South Wales.
I have also found that adraham lee was the father of the original fighting zacky lee who had the children Job and Urani, pretty certain we have the right zachariah dying in 1875 now, and that his nephew was the joseph boswell son of Levi and mary ann nee lee, now we need to fit the Buckley and coleman clans in!
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Eeeks you ask a lot hahahaha Ill see what I can find out.
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Ok - Job Lee married Morselina Buckley d/o Frank.
Abraham Lee his father married a Mary Smith, known as Pol.
Cant find anything on the Colemans....
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as above Dinah Lee is my great grandmother, daughter of Zacharia Lee, (not sure of charlotte Dinah's mother maiden name)
Dinah in the 1861 census is living with her auntie and uncle (colemans?)
by the next census she is married to Robert George Hatton, and the 1841 or 1851 census cant find any of the Lee 's, the 1871 cenus there is another Zacharia lee in the workhouse, but pretty sure that one married a Rosetta and then was living in the "tents" in the 1881 census, and died aged 89 in 1892,
so there are actually 3 Zacharia Lees, with the one who was transported,
Dinah Lee (hatton) died in 1912 2 (ish) years after her husband, they are all connected somehow, just havn't got the glue for the jigsaw yet :-\
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I have also found that adraham lee was the father of the original fighting zacky lee who had the children Job and Urani, pretty certain we have the right zachariah dying in 1875 now, and that his nephew was the joseph boswell son of Levi and mary ann nee lee, now we need to fit the Buckley and coleman clans in!
just seen your topics and wanted to add that henrietta was the daughter of levi boswell and mary ann lee. henrietta married a santalina buckley...... (sant being the son of joiner, whos father was ''the joe buckley'' ''a noble breed of gypsy's''. (so stated in the journel) . that joins them buckleys up !!!! ;D
just to add that henrietta & santalina apparently had over 20 children :o
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as prev stated: Moselina Buckley m. Frank Lee. YES indeed,
Daniel levi Boswell who married Mary Ann LEE had Agnes married Frank Buckley and Henrietta married Santalena (Sam) Buckley.
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hello ann65
think we have coresponded before (excuse spelling).
yes thats what i have also, 2 sisters marrying 2 brothers.
wonder how many children for sant & henrietta we could find through this site. it would be great to see how many turn up, apparently 26 is folklore but who knows?
amanda
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Daniel Levi & Mary Ann had:
Louisa c.1862 Hunton Kent
Rosanna c.1858 Gt Billing, Nthants
as well as Henrietta and Agnes whos baptisms I have not managed to find.
Santalena and Henrietta had:
Pearson b.cir 1863 Petherer Stf
Adeline b.cir 1865 Petherer Stf
Patrick b.cir 1867 Petherer Stf
Emily b.cir 1869 Petherer Stf
Arthur Hyter (female) b.cir 1870 Plaistow Ex
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To summarize this jumble:
1) "Fighting" Zacky Lee (1803-1889) settled in East London with Rosetta. He had many famous descendants although he was not as good a fighter as his brother William.
2) A second Zachariah Lee (1807-1847) preferred to thump the violin instead but was transported for horse stealing. His spouse, Charlotte Hammond [Hn.C4], had a liaison with Riley Boswell who had only one relevant surname alias (Boss) and several forename aliases. You can find out more from the JGLS although it is wrong in many ways especially in calling Clara the sister of Riley.
3) The third Zachariah Lee (bc1811) appears in 1861MDX-0769/91/2 and he was not all that famous. It is pure coincidence that his wife was called 'Charlotte' and came from the same county (Kent) as that attributed to Charlotte Hammond.
Moderator Comment: References to a living person removed at that person's request.
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dreadful problems when it comes to the correct name of daniel levy boswell. some believe he is the son of abel boswell rather than of clark boswell, others believe them 2 to be the same person and i have been asked before if allen and abel are one in the same.
does any-one know for sure? ???
and if the authors of the books have searched records,( i think we know which books im refering to) how can there be a mistake with having two different opinions? would'nt they eventually both find out the same answer if they are both asking the same questions to the same records/authorities/researchers....... ::)
i have seen so many variants for these boswells, that i dont know what to believe anymore and think i might just disown this side of my ancestors ;D
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just read this post, so if i am right the zachariah that was transported is major lee's brother?
and does anyone know the surname of rosetta (born abt 1801)who married zachariah lee (born about 1798)father of job lee (Abt1821) who married maria gascoyne (abt 1822)
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Moderator Comment: References to a living person removed at that person's request.
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Hi HawkesFH
When Britannia married Thomas Gregory in Leavesden, near Watford, Herts, in 1859, she used the surname Draper rather than Lee. On her marriage cert, her father's name is given as Shipton Draper, hawker.
This suggests that Britannia was a step-daughter of Zachariah, being a daughter to his wife Charlotte presumably by Shipton Draper in a former relationship.
Curiously, one of the witnesses to the marriage was a Rosetta Lee.
I appreciate that Britannia had a half-sister of that name but she would only have been about 11 years old when Britannia married: possibly too young to be a witness? But as Boswell37 tells us, "Fighting Zacky Lee" had a wife called Rosetta. Another coincidence? Or is there some sort of familial connection between the East London Zachariah and the West London one?
Best wishes
Sharon
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as mentioned earlier in this thread, there were 3 Zachariah Lee's
the one who was "transported" (he married Charlotte Hammond) ,
then Zachariah Lee born about 1798
died 1889 (Age 91) -- Leytonstone Workhouse, pretty sure he married Rosetta Lee?
she was born c1799 died c1875
then the 3rd born c1804 died 1875 he also married a Charlotte, and one of their daughters was Rosetta
and also Britannia (Lee/draper?) other children were Dinah, Ambrose and Robert
and before anyone says lol the books do not unravel the mystery
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Perhaps it would be worthwhile if HawkesFH could restate what the current query is and then some of his/her own irrelevant remarks could be discarded.
He/she has not been cautious about repeating folklore that has since been shown to be no more than unsubstantiated hearsay.
And yet, information relating to Joseph BOSWELL, which might suggest a possible solution, has been glossed over and left to others to follow up.
Some contributors have abandoned themselves to expressions of despair while using the postings to develop their own interests. lol lol lol lllol
Dawn
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>:(
I agree that not enough information was placed on the table at the start but also think people are trying their best to unravel the confusion.
My suggestion would be to fill out the details of Zacky 3 (for want of a better description).
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not sure the original poster has done anything but post info they have found, ie from official records and certificates and their OWN research, instead of relying on research and books that others have looked at/written, someone asked did they know of a boswell connection, and the op stated a Joseph Boswell was the informant and nephew on a death certificate, so not sure how that is hearsay?
MY reading of it they were then asking if the info is true on that certificate then who is his father etc,
of course people are going to post in relation to their own interests, people wthout an interest are not going to be reading this or bother to go further,
if we are going to cut people off at the legs for not having the full information before posting, then there won't be a lot of posts on here :(
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Well do you want to get to the bottom of it or just talk? There are plenty of heavyweights tuning into this debate with more than enough intelligence and experience to solve any genealogical problem.
In reply #3, HawkesFH mentioned a Joseph Boswell at St Paul's Middlesex but he is actually found at London St Luke so we were sent the wrong way from the start. In the same reply he/she wondered if the two brothers, Zachariah and Levi Boswell, were children of Urania and Levi. What sort of checks were made for that suggestion to arise? Levi (husband of Urania) was son of Zachariah which I know having been shown the baptism details by TL.
At the very start HawkesFH did not explicitly ask if Zachariah Boswell was the son of a Boswell (we all have two grandparents). He/she asked if Diana was the granddaughter of a Boswell. So, anybody who tries to grasp what the inquiry is all about is faced with quite a few challenges and is bound to blunder around a bit (to use a worn out expression).
I agree that Joseph Boswell of 1881 St Luke could well be the same as in 1861 Middlesex. (Joseph also appears in 1871 with his wife Sarah at Kensington.) If, in 1875, Joseph Boswell was the nephew of Zachariah Lee it would normally suggest that Zachariah Lee's sister married a Boswell.
Joseph was the son of Levi Boswell and Mary Ann Lee therefore Zachariah Lee was the brother of Mary Ann Lee whose unconvincing baptism (again thanks to TL) suggests that their father was Charles Lee.
So HawkesFH wants to know if Zachariah Lee's mother was a BOSWELL and the answer is 'don't know' since Mary Ann's baptism does not give her mother's maiden surname. But whether or not she was a Boswell is not connected to Joseph Boswell being the nephew of Zachariah Lee. The solution revolves around Charles Lee.
Unfortunately there were two contemporaneous Charles Lee and it is not certain which was which although I understand the wife of one of them was not a Boswell. Over to you .....
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Assuming that a Joseph Boswell is named as nephew of Zachariah Lee at his death in June Quarter 1875, Registered Eton, the 1881 census does show a Joseph Boswell living at St Luke with his wife, Sarah, and four children. Three of the children, including the eldest, Rosina aged 12, have births registered at Holborn and therefore Joseph and Sarah were more or less settled there as early as September Quarter 1869.
However, Joseph Boswell, son of Levi and Mary Ann, was still living with or near his family in 1871. He may have been entered twice [0041/72/32 and 0091/22/38]. There is no child called Rosina with him as there should be if he was the same as the one at St Luke in 1881 so that particular Joseph is not connected.
But this does not mean that Levi and Mary Ann's son, Joseph, was not the witness at Zachariah Lee's death. In fact there is supporting evidence for this and much more.
Both Zachariah and Mary Ann Lee gave a place in Bucks as their birthplace and when Mary Ann married in 1869 her father, Charles - tinker, had the same profession as Zachariah in 1861 (tinman & brazier). The given birthplace for Mary Ann is either Cowley (MDX) or Drayton (BKM). Her given ages are 42/61MDX, 48/71LON, 59/81MDX and 73/91LON which means she was born about 1811-1823.
Supplied by TL is this reference which fits the facts. Mary Ann's first child was born in 1839 and she could easily have been aged 6 or over in 1829 since the parents named in the baptism are the same ones whose two [other?] daughters were baptised as adults.
MDX Cowley St Lawrence bp17/5/1829 Martha d/o Charles/Anne LEE Gipsy of Cowley
BUT the folklore gives such a Martha Lee as wife of John or Jonathan SMITH [1881HAM-1256/66/22] whose age in 1881 (45) makes her less likely than Mary Ann to be the person named in the above baptism. The ages of Martha Smith's children in 1881 do not support an older Martha although there is some further contradictory evidence.
The promising news (from TL) is that several of the features of Zachariah Lee's family are consistent with those found in the family of Charles and Ann Lee such as the marriage of their daughter, Diana, to John Gregory (father of the Thomas who married Britannia Draper in December Quarter 1859, Registered Watford). Diana married John 2 November 1846 at Eversley Hants where the family were based. The occupation of the father of Diana, Charles Lee, was given as knife grinder which is consistent.
This family of Charles and Ann Lee are well known although no evidence seen, so far, that there was a Zachariah among them.
As is always the case, this particular line of research has reached the point where armchair genealogists need not apply. The next step is the 'multiple theory' stage where only those with an encyclopedic knowledge of the subject feel comfortable. You have to accept being presented with several possible solutions and be prepared to repeat your work looking for more clues to accommodate all the apparent contradictions.
Moderator Comment: References to a living person removed at that person's request.
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After 20 years of Family History research, 5 of them spent tutoring the subject at a CRO, I have finally discovered armchair genealogy thanks to a subscription to ancestry.co.uk. amazing how 'easy' it is.
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as prev stated: Moselina Buckley m. Frank Lee. YES indeed,
Daniel levi Boswell who married Mary Ann LEE had Agnes married Frank Buckley and Henrietta married Santalena (Sam) Buckley.
I've been going through this thread till my eyes have crossed and have a few queries for those in the know....
I have a Morselina Buckley d/o Frank Buckley through a marriage to Elvira Williams BUT I have Morselina marrying Job Lee, not Frank Lee in 1894, West Ham. Did she marry twice or is my information incorrect?
Second query is re Zachariah Lee. Boswell37 clarified these 3 people with that name...
1) "Fighting" Zacky Lee (1803-1889) settled in East London with Rosetta. He had many famous descendants although he was not as good a fighter as his brother William.
2) A second Zachariah Lee (1807-1847) preferred to thump the violin instead but was transported for horse stealing. His spouse, Charlotte Hammond [Hn.C4], had a liaison with Riley Boswell who had only one relevant surname alias (Boss) and several forename aliases. You can find out more from the JGLS although it is wrong in many ways especially in calling Clara the sister of Riley.
3) The third Zachariah Lee (bc1811) appears in 1861MDX-0769/91/2 and he was not all that famous. It is pure coincidence that his wife was called 'Charlotte' and came from the same county (Kent) as that attributed to Charlotte Hammond.
So.... who is the Zachariah Lee that died in 1875 then and had a daughter called Diana? Yes, I get (I think) that he was brother to Mary Ann Lee and therefore son on a Charles Lee but I don't know who Charles Lee is/was so I'm still in the dark. I also don't know the parentage of Options 2 and 3 above so I'm still wondering whether they tie in to the same Lee family of Option 1.
I've seen a claim of two other Zachariahs that apparently come down from Elisha & Hannah so that's either two more out there or one or two of them are the same person. I've seen no documentation of this claim though so have no idea how true it is. One was apparently a brother to David Lee and was born mid 18thC, and a grandson of his was named Zachariah as well.
And maybe this is just confusing matters and needs to be elsewhere, but .... I have Joiner Buckley's wife down as Seni Smith but I've seen it claimed elsewhere that she was also wife to his brother, Samuel Buckley.
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Hi there,
I am looking for some help please as I am a descendent from Famebridge Lee who was married to a William Fryer!
Her parents were Samuel Lee and Parthanea Boswell.
Could anybody help me with any info on this family please, as seem to be at a dead end!
Thank you.
Wednesday 28th July 2010