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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 13:22 BST (UK)

Title: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 13:22 BST (UK)
An entry in the 1871 census is shown in the typed summary sheet as Catherine Dingess. When you look at the handwritten entry the name is illegible to me and someone has clearly just had a stab to come up with the name Dingess

Dingess (or whatever her real name is) is residing at 36 Elsted Street in St Saviours, Southwark having been born in Beccles, Suffolk. Is there any way of solving this problem other than by just trying to decipher the name?

Would appreciate any thoughts or comments please?
Thanks Loafer2
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Tati on Friday 03 October 08 13:26 BST (UK)
Hi Loafer2,

At first sight it looks like Burgess to me. We could try and find her on earlier or later censuses ...

 :)

PS I see Emily Bradford was from Beccles as well ... woder if Catherine was a sister? Do you know Emily's maiden name?
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 13:38 BST (UK)
Hi Tati,

Thanks for the response. I thought it could be Burgess not convinced and had no luck on census searches under that name. It is Emily Bradford's maiden name that I am really trying to trace because I am guessing they are sisters as you noticed they were both born in Beccles.

I wondered if there were records to check other than the census. Probably need to go to the Southwark archives to find out.   
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 03 October 08 13:53 BST (UK)
Going the long way around - if you found the marriage of James and Emily, you would get Emily's maiden name and you might then (if it wasn't too common!) be able to find Catherine's marriage to a Mr Dingess/Burgess etc.

On FreeBMD, two
 possible marriages are noted:
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Although that does rely on making lots of assumptions!!
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 03 October 08 13:55 BST (UK)
Sorry, just reread your post, and the info I just gave you is exactly what you don't need.

Apologies - I have permanent baby brain coupled with sleep deprivation!
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 14:02 BST (UK)
Spidermonkey - your reply could be very helpful yet. I have been trying for years to trace the marriage of James and Emily, I think the Bristol one is unlikely but Mile End is a possibility.

Didn't know you could get the maiden name as you have done for the marriage without calling for the certificate!
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 03 October 08 14:08 BST (UK)
Me again, and am confusing myself going round in circles.  If it is any help at all, your James Bradford is on the 1861 census in Bermondsey (where his daughter Emily was born) living with his wife Anna.

Full details:
Little George St, Bermondsey
James Bradford  25 M Leather dresser bn Devon Exeter
Anna Bradford  21 M Straw hat maker bn Bucks Aylsbury

Class: RG9; Piece: 322; Folio: 172; Page: 39;
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Tati on Friday 03 October 08 14:08 BST (UK)
I searched 1861 for the family - couldn't find a match as Bradford but there's a little Emily Winch at Bermondsey, age 1 month. Parents Edward Winch age 23 born Bermondsey and Emily age 20 born Beccles ...
RG9/322 115 36

Nice combination of finds, Spidermonkey  :D
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 14:11 BST (UK)
Wow thanks Tati that looks promising
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Tati on Friday 03 October 08 14:15 BST (UK)
Just wish I could find an Edward Winch/Emily Something or Emily Winch/James Bradford marriage!! 
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 14:16 BST (UK)
Spidermonkey good stuff this. Got the marriage of James Bradford to Ann Evans as you say they are living together on the 1861 census. However by 1871 James Bradford is living with Emily Bradford and with a 10 year old daughter of the same name, there is no marriage on BMD for James and Emily.

Tati's find looks very promising I must investigate. Thanks very much  
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 03 October 08 14:21 BST (UK)
Would it help if I gave you a list of all the Emily's born in Beccles as shown on the 1851 census? 
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 14:24 BST (UK)
Yes please if it's not too much trouble
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 03 October 08 14:30 BST (UK)
No problem at all

Data is
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Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 14:34 BST (UK)
Thanks this is really helpful, I feel I maybe getting nearer to solving this. 
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Friday 03 October 08 17:09 BST (UK)
Been doing some more research on this. I feel that the two Emilys shown on the 1861 census as living with Edward Winch are the same 2 shown on the 1871 census as living with James Bradford but I can't substantiate any of it! All the dates seem right for the 1861 census record and with the mother being born in Beccles it seems unlikely to be a coincidence.

There is no record I can find on BMD of a marriage between an Edward Winch and Emily. There is a birth record for Emily born 1861 which I could send for but not sure that this will help prove the link mentioned above. Maybe I'm on the wrong track? Any other thoughts?       
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Tati on Friday 03 October 08 17:23 BST (UK)
There is no record I can find on BMD of a marriage between an Edward Winch and Emily. There is a birth record for Emily born 1861 which I could send for but not sure that this will help prove the link mentioned above. Maybe I'm on the wrong track? Any other thoughts?       

I think that if they were mine, I'd order little Emily's birth cert. Whether Emily sr was legally married to Edward or just pretending, it should reveal her maiden name.

 :)
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: clarity37 on Friday 03 October 08 21:44 BST (UK)
Hi Loafer2
Sorry this is not a proper reply to the message you sent me regarding my Prime ancestors, but I have no reply function in my personal messages! I haven;t found any connection in the Wenhaston area, all my Primes have come from Creeting and Needhan Market.
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Sunday 05 October 08 09:52 BST (UK)
Thanks and agreed, certificate duly ordered
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Sunday 05 October 08 09:54 BST (UK)
Hi Loafer2
Sorry this is not a proper reply to the message you sent me regarding my Prime ancestors, but I have no reply function in my personal messages! I haven;t found any connection in the Wenhaston area, all my Primes have come from Creeting and Needhan Market.

Hi Clarity37
No problem thanks for getting back to me
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Sunday 05 October 08 14:01 BST (UK)
I have found  a marriage on the BMD for Edward Charles Winch for Q4 1861 reference 1d 282 Newington. Is it possible to find the name of the wife from that information and if so how is it done? Can anyone help/explain please?
Thanks
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: mongoose2 on Sunday 05 October 08 21:11 BST (UK)
its either of these 2 so you would need to find them together on the next census or order the certificate

JEFFRIES  Matilda     
TAYLOR  Elizabeth

you already have the certificate number but if u arent sure how to order please ask

Bazza


Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Monday 06 October 08 08:19 BST (UK)
Thanks Mongoose help much appreciated.
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: osprey on Monday 06 October 08 10:28 BST (UK)
For future help - to find the possible spouses on FreeBmd, click on the page number, and there you are...
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Monday 06 October 08 19:28 BST (UK)
Thanks Osprey I've learnt something. I've previously done all my BMD searching using Ancestry and wasn't aware it was possible to identify the other person in the marriage. Most helpful.
Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: loafer2 on Monday 13 October 08 11:29 BST (UK)
The birth certificate for Emily Winch born 1861 arrived on Saturday it gives the mothers maiden name as Meacham. I have searched bmd for a marriage between an Emily Meacham and an Edward Winch with no success.

Emily Meacham is easily traceable on the 1841 and 1851 census living in Beccles in Suffolk. How do I establish for certain however that the Emily Meacham shown on the 1841 and 1851 census living with her parents Sophia and Charles is the same person that had a daughter christened Emily Winch with Edward Winch and the same Emily shown in the 1871 census shown as Emily Bradford and living with James Bradford?

I did some further research on this and have found a possible marriage on freebmd between James Bradford and an Emily Sparrow in 1871 in Epsom. I was hopeful of this in that if you look at the census return for Edward Winch in 1841 admittedly when he was only 4, the Winch family were living with the Sparrow family. I am sending for the marriage certificate.

It's difficult to tell at the moment if I am making any progress at all. You have helped me a lot thus far and any further thoughts or comments would be gratefully received.
Mark 

Title: Re: 1871 census Catherine Dingess
Post by: Tati on Monday 13 October 08 12:34 BST (UK)
How do I establish for certain however that the Emily Meacham shown on the 1841 and 1851 census living with her parents Sophia and Charles is the same person that had a daughter christened Emily Winch with Edward Winch and the same Emily shown in the 1871 census shown as Emily Bradford and living with James Bradford?
Well, the birth cert establishes that she's Emily Winch's mother. As to her being also Emily Bradford - I'm not sure you'll be able to PROVE it but I reckon the probability is very high - They do seem to be the only Emily born 1860 Wandsworth / mother Emily born Beccles couple ...