Also, Ballywee is sometimes called Ballyvoy. And the townland is split across two parishes. Both of which makes it a little more confusing.
I have that couple on my tree because I’m interested in a few families in the area, including the Brysons. Please tell us more about what you know already about this family. What is the connection between James Bryson (b. 1825) and James Bryson, father of Margaret?
I have a James Bryson born c1826 who married Agnes Bryson, and a James Bryson born c1827 who was son of Robert Bryson (surgeon) and Eleanor Gawn.
Gilby
Threekids,Hi Lorna,
Yes, I’d still be interested in seeing a copy of John Bryson’s (1836?) will. Or any other wills from this family which don’t survive in the PRONI catalogue.
I hope you got to Kilbride graveyard and that it lived up to your expectations. I visited on a frosty morning about 8 weeks before your last message.
Thanks for the information on James Bryson and his line. I don’t remember all those names, but it is too late tonight for me to look them up, so I’ll need to come back to this another time!
Gilby
I did know that area was known as the Grange at one time. I didn’t know it was Brice’s Land. That makes sense as Brice is one of the Scottish derivatives of Bryson. There is a branch of Brysons who immigrated to America in the 1700s from County Antrim. I’m sure there’s some relationship there but no DNA.
This was the marriage I was thinking of:
Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.
If Cove Lodge was on the Ballyvoy farm, then that's Duncansland I think? So I was wondering if James Bryson (1826-1909) of Duncansland may have been a son of James Bryson of Cove Lodge.
Hi. Sorry I’m just noticing these messages. Lorna, the following is the note I had on my tree for Robert Bryson:
Robert Bryson, surgeon of Poyntzpass. Was probably related to the Rev. Alexander Bryson of Fourtowns near Poyntzpass. They both clearly had links to the Donegore area. I think that's probably where they originated.
Your message basically confirms all of that. More details below.
Belfast Newsletter, 22nd Sep 1818:
In Poyntzpass, on the 17th ult. by the Rev. Mr. Bryson, Surgeon Bryson, of Poyntzpass, to Susannah, eldest daughter of Mr. George Bennet of said place.
Belfast Newsletter, 17th Feb 1824:
On the 27th ult. at Donegore, by the Rev. Mr. Wallace, Mr. Robert Bryson, surgeon, of Pointzpass, to Eleanor, eldest daughter of the late Mr. James Gawn, of Donegore.
This was the marriage I was thinking of:
Belfast Newsletter, 31 Jul 1835
By the Rev. Alex. Bryson, Seceding Minister, Charles Bryson, Esq. Ballybracken, to Margaret, eldest daughter to James Bryson, Esq. Cove-lodge.
If Cove Lodge was on the Ballyvoy farm, then that's Duncansland I think? So I was wondering if James Bryson (1826-1909) of Duncansland may have been a son of James Bryson of Cove Lodge.
No, James Bryson (1826-1909) was the grandson of James Bryson of Covelodge. 1826 James Bryson was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick. He is also the direct line great+ grandfather of the current owner. He’s buried in Plot 164 with most of his descendants who’ve passed.
The marriage record you’re referencing is Covelodge James Bryson’s daughter Margaret married Charles Bryson in 1835.
Cove Lodge still exists and the brother of the current owner of Ballyvoy farm lives in the home.
...my eye was caught by the marriage in 1849 of Joyce Bryson of Ballybracken, aged 21, daughter of Robert.
arty 1 Name JAMES MILFORD
Party 2 Name JOYCE BRYSON
Date of Event 31 August 1849
Group Registration ID 3189748
SR District/Reg Area Antrim
Image
..2nd Ballyeaston Presbyterian Church
James Bryson d. 1909 was the son of Robert Bryson and Margaret Warwick and the grandson of James Bryson from Covelodge. The James Bryson d. 1832 had two children John d.1841 and Joice d. 1862. John had several children including John d. 1859 whose will I sent you.
James Bryson d. 1909 lived on the Ballyvoy property as he took the lease over from John d. 1841 after he died. James's descendents are the current owners and inherited the property which includes Covelodge, a home that was one and a half stories but now two stories, the original stone cottage and a stone cottage that only the foundation exists now.
That's the info I have from the current residents of the property. I haven't found any other records for children of James Bryson d. 1832 other than the will which lists Joice. :)
1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.
Robert Bryson b. 1830 and James b. 1833-34 were both the sons of John W. Bryson's eldest son James b. Abt 1797 d. 1835 and Martha Ann McConnell.
Copy and post the page with the image, that isn’t be too long
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1855/09484/5437271.pdf
Hi Gilby!
I have DNA matches with two of Robert's daughters who were baptized at 1st Donegore. His son James died without issue and left his estate to his brother William who had four daughters. Three are buried with Robert, William and their wives at Kilbride. Unfortunately the Bryson name in this branch died off in 1940 with William's death. I thought the whole branch in Ireland had died off until I matched DNA with the Fosters. The O'Haras live in Colorado USA.
James Bryson d. 1861 was 27 when he died and his father James d. 1835 was still alive and married to Martha Ann. John W was aware of his son's death in 1836 and left a bequest "to the children of my son James, deceased".
James Bryson d1861 is listed singularly on the ship manifest to Australia. I thought it was a different James until it popped up on the headstone.
Agnes Boyd was a Bryson? That branch is so confusing with all those Bryson/Bryson marriages. There certainly were other families. My John W went to Belfast for Margaret Wilson and to County Down for Mary McCune.
1909 James Bryson married Agnes Boyd (widow). This information is directly from his descendents who currently live on the Ballyvoy property.
The 1911 census record for Ellen Nevin shows 4 children born and 3 alive. The two children listed with Ellen and John Nevin were his children born after they married in 1901. So it looks like one of Ellen's two children Sarah and Robert Bryson born before 1901 was still alive in 1911. I can see one Sarah Bryson aged 14 listed as a visitor in Owensland in 1911 who would be a possibility.
The 1911 census record for Ellen Nevin shows 4 children born and 3 alive. The two children listed with Ellen and John Nevin were his children born after they married in 1901. So it looks like one of Ellen's two children Sarah and Robert Bryson born before 1901 was still alive in 1911. I can see one Sarah Bryson aged 14 listed as a visitor in Owensland in 1911 who would be a possibility.
Thanks. I’d miss-read “Nivin” as “Nixon” the other day for some reason. The child who had died by 1911 was John James Nevin (1903-1906).
They seem to have counted Ellen’s first two children (Sarah in 1896, Robert in 1898) as being born to the 1901 marriage, which suggests John James Nevin (senior) was their biological father.
I agree that it is probably Ellen’s daughter Sarah aged 14 in Owensland in 1911. It is interesting that she is still a Bryson though, which contradicts my previous point.
Anyway, if that is Ellen’s daughter in Owensland with the Andrew family, that could be significant for the Bryson connections. William Andrew’s wife Margaret (d. 1908) was a daughter of Robert Bryson of Ballyvoy. From the will of Robert’s brother John (1859), we know they had a brother James (in America at the time) who had a son called Robert.
I think Robert's Will names his son William Bryson of Ballymarlow, as one of his executors. Robert died 1897.Probate of the Will of Robert Bryson late of Ballymarlow County Antrim Farmer who died 7 April 1897 granted at Belfast to William Bryson of Ballymarlow and William Bell of Ballywoodock Farmers.
In between those are daughters Martha b 1866 and Ellen b 1871 @ Ballymarlow.
Hi Pezzy
I hope Threekids sees this soon as I believe the Ellen Bryson whose family you are interested in, is related to her.
If you note reply # 130 then we are talking about the family Robert Bryson and Sarah Caldwell of Ballymarlow.
John W. Bryson (c1764-1836)
---- James Bryson (c1800-c1835)
-------- Robert Bryson (c1830-1897) m. Sarah Caldwell
-------- Mary Bryson (c1838-1903) m. William S. Bell
If I have it right then Threekids has DNA matches in the families of daughters Annie Bryson b 1864 who married Hugh O'Hara and Agnes Bryson born 1873 who married John Foster.
In between those are daughters Martha b 1866 and Ellen b 1871 @ Ballymarlow. You will find Martha's 1886 marriage to William Gordon on either page 15 or 16 of this thread. It is Martha who registered the birth of Ellen's daughter Sarah.
I have not traced either family further from this point but Threekids may have more information on the families of her DNA matches.
Robert Bryson then of Ballyclaverty (and later father of Ellen and sisters) married Sarah Caldwell on 13 Sep 1860 at Parkgate Donegore.
I hope this helps
Linda
I think Robert's Will names his son William Bryson of Ballymarlow, as one of his executors. Robert died 1897.
Regarding Threekids post# 133 about this family there are a few things that have possibly altered since that post (at least in my mind)
Firstly I think Robert Bryson was the son of James Bryson and Ann McConnell of Ballyvoy (not Martha) and they married at 1st Donegore on 18 Jan 1829.
Ann Bryson, widow of Ballybracken, married again in 1850 to a Malcolm Barkely of Ballyclaverty. This is how I think Robert Bryson and his sister Mary came to be at Ballyclaverty when they married.
Ann Barkley died 1875 aged 71 at Ballywoodock and her death was registered by William Bell.
Secondly the death of Ellen Byrson listed by Threekids is not for the correct Ellen Bryson as she was alive when her children Sarah and Robert were born and again later when she married at Ballymena and later again in 1911.
Hi Pezzy,
I have the Margaret Andrew née Bryson as a 4th cousin 2x removed of Sarah Bryson (daughter of Ellen). That is a very distant connection for Sarah to be staying with the Andrew family in 1911 for family reasons. If Ann McConnell was a sister of Ellen McConnell, then the connection might have been something like 1st cousin 3x removed.
I have not worked out when Ellen Nevin née Bryson died. Her husband was certainly still alive and living in Bridge Street in Ballymena in 1918 (fined for possession of a revolver – Ballymena Weekly Telegraph, 23rd Nov 1918).
You mentioned you and your daughter both match a descendant of Annie O’Hara née Bryson. Is her match stronger than yours? If you’ve tested on FTDNA you may be able to work out from the Chromosome Browser whether the connection is likely to be on the same line (e.g. your connection might have nothing to do with the Brysons).
Has your husband done a Y-DNA test? That might help identify James’s father.
Who did Sarah Bryson eventually marry?
Gilby
1921 Census – Powick, Worcestershire
Henry Charles Watkins, head, 32 yrs 8 mo, widower, born Powick, Worcestershire, groundsman, working for the Humber Recreation Society.
Agnes Pruscella Watkins, dau, 3 yrs, mother dead, both St. George’s, Worcester.
Alice Sarah Watkins, mother, 61 yrs 3 mo, married, born Allensmore, Herefordshire, home duties.
1939 Register – 176 Siddeley Avenue, Coventry, Warwickshire
Henry Watkins, born 12 Oct 1889, groundsman.
Sarah Watkins, born 10 Apr 1897, unpaid domestic duties.
James Watkins, born 27 Apr 1918, aircraft wood machinist.
Agnes [P.] Jones [Watkins stoked out], born 5 Jun 1917, textile [worker].
Kenneth Watkins, born 7 Feb 1923, tool room.
Gordon Watkins, born 26 Apr 1924, at school.
Colin [Robert] Watkins, born 20 [?] Aug 1931, at school.
Robert Nevin, born 20 Sep 1898, store keeper.
Hi Pezzy
If your husband's line is only direct male line back to James, son of Sarah, i,e his father was a son of James, then yDNA could tell you who was the father of James. And yes your sons would get the same result if needed.
If your daughter inherited Bryson x DNA then in would only be from his mother. If your husbands mother is the Bryson descendant then a yDNA test from your husband or sons would not help answer who was James father.
Austosomal DNA however can answer that question and in that case you would be more likely to find answers if your husband tests as he should have more of that DNA than your children.
If my daughter inherits matches on her X chromosome which I don’t have the same matches to the other descendant …. Has she inherited them from her father? I did have two tests ancestry and my heritage and I know they can test slightly differently.
She matches on another chromosome too that I don’t. I seem to only match my daughter and the other descendant on chromosome 10 and more strongly on that chromosome than my daughter.
I thought maybe an odd coincidence but then there are so many shared matches.
Yes my husband testing would be really helpful.
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There’s a report in a newspaper in November 1918:
WM. ANDREW v. JAMES M'ALLISTER.
This action was brought by the plaintiff, who resides at Ballybamage, Co. Antrim against the detendant, wuo resides in the same locality, to recover damages for the seduction of plaintiff's adopted daughter and servant Sarah Bryson. The defendant did not appear, nor did he make any defence.
The jury found for the plaintiff, and assessed damages at £200.
Mr. Hanna,.
K.C. and Mr. M'Corry (in-
structed by Mr. James Clarke, Ballymena, appeared for the plaintiff.
Would this possibly be Sarah Bryson?
She would not of already given birth to James by this date. Not sure how long it took to report etc??
............................
This is probably the relevant McAllister family:
https://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Ballyclare_Rural/Ballyhamage/109112/
Their son James would have been a couple of years older than Sarah Bryson.
Oldest son was William (apparently born c 1861) and he was the main beneficiary in Mary's Will written 1896, which named 2 farms belonging to her deceased husband William Bell, one at Ballyclaverty and the other at Ballywoodick. My relative, Andrew Gawn of Halftown was one executor and her son William was the other.Memorial of transfer of farms to William Number 211