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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Gene-ee-us on Thursday 02 October 08 01:17 BST (UK)
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Does anybody know where I might find the marriage record of John MacKay and Flora McLean, who seem to have been married somewhere in Inverness County, Cape Breton, around 1830? Both born in Scotland (probably Isle of Rum) and seem to have come to Canada as children. Flora's father was Hector McLean, and her brother was known as John the Banker.
The first I find of them is in the 1861 census, but they had sons at home who were around thirty, so they must have been married quite a while by 1861. I know lots about them after 1861, but not before. Any information appreciated.
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Hello
You could try searching some of these vital statistics sites for Cape Breton Island.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nscpbret/cbbmdndx.html
Linda
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This looks interesting
History of Inverness County, Nova Scotia / J.L. MacDougall. 1922
http://www.electricscotland.com/canada/inverness/index.htm
Many marriages are mentioned in the District Sketches. If you know the area they resided in the better.
Linda
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Thanks Linda. They lived at Chimney corner. I've looked in McDougall's book: All he says is that he doesn't know anything about the family. Their kids included Donald, Hector (our g-grandfather), William, Mary, & Flora. May also have been Ann, but not sure of her. Nova Scotia marriage & birth registers don't seem to go that far back. I'll give Ancestry another try. Maybe they've added something since I was there last.
Myrna
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Hello Myrna
Your most welcome.
Found someone referencing from a book titled Place names and places of Nova Scotia:
Arriving in Cape Breton Island in 1811, Hector MacKay applied for land
at Chimney Corner in July of that year. A warrant of survey was issued
for him in 1815 when John MacKay applied for adjacent land.
... The first Presbyterian minister who gave continuous time to
preaching at Broad Cove made visits to Chimney Corner, Whale Cove,
Margaree Harbour, right down to Lake Ainslie. This was Rev. Aeneas
McLean, from 1831 to 1832.
CHIMNEY CORNER, Inverness County - p. 127
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NS-CAPE-BRETON/2001-08/0998585308
Wonder if Rev. Aeneas might be a relation to Flora. You might want to buy or borrow this book. Details for the book:
TITLE: Place-names and places of Nova Scotia
PUBLISHER: Belleville, Ont. : Mika Pub. Co., 1982.
DESCRIPTION: vi, 751 p. : fold. maps ; 24 cm.
NOTES: Photoreprint of the Halifax, 1967 ed., issued as v. 3 of Nova Scotia series.
NUMBERS: ISBN: 0919302904
http://amicus.collectionscanada.ca/aaweb-bin/aamain/basic_search?sessionKey=1223079232009_216_106_110_9&l=0
Land Petitions: Nova Scotia petitions 1769-1799 ~ Cape Breton Island petitions 1787-1843
1811
McKay, Hector
Petition to Nepean: Petitioner has recently arrived from Scotland. He asks a lot between Broad Cove and Margaree, known as Chimney Corner. Warrant issued.
Cape Breton no.: 728
NSARM microfilm: 15790
http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/databases/land/Results.asp?Search=margaree&SearchList1=all&Start=31
1825
McKay, John
Petition to Wallace: Petitioner is a native of Scotland, age 26, single. He asks a grant of loot 46, at Chimney Corner, Broad Cove. The lot, which adjoins his fathers's land, was laid off for him six years before. Note: There is no proof of statement. Petitioner's father has 400 acres. Note: approved for 100 acres.
Cape Breton no.: 3061
NSARM microfilm: 15799
http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/databases/land/Results.asp?Search=petit&SearchList1=all&Start=646
Linda
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This is interesting, there is someone referencing Flora Maclean, of Whale Cove, daughter of Hector who originated from Isle of Rum marrying Alexander MacIntosh
http://www.littlemac2.com/MacLean.html
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Hello
Appears Flora MacLean married Alexander MacIntosh.
See: THE MacLEANS OF WHALE COVE
http://www.electricscotland.com/canada/inverness/chapter27.htm
The daughter Flora married Alexander McIntosh, lived at Rear Chimney Corner, had a family of four, all of whom are dead, except Kenneth, who lives at Chimney Corner
Are you sure of the John MaKay connection you mention. From the other www.littlemac2.com site Flora and Alexander were alive in 1881. Interestingly, John MacKay's father's name being Hector.
Linda
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Linda,
Thanks for all that. I will have to look at the place names book. I think I remember seeing it on-line someplace. Flora is a pretty common name among the McLeans (and the McKays for that matter). The one who was married to Alexander McIntosh was the first cousin of the one who was married to John McKay. The father of Alex's wife was Alexander McLean; his brother Hector was the father of John McKay's wife.
I am fairly certain of our John and Flora McKay. McDougall doesn't mention Flora in his list of the children of Hector McLean & Mary McIntosh, but he does mention John "The Banker" as being their son, and his parents are otherwise well documented. I have a copy of a letter from John "the Banker" McLean, to his nephew in Australia, which lists John's sister Flora McKay and her children. The children in Flora's brother's letter exactly match the children in the family of my husband's great-great-grandparents, which makes it fairly clear whose daughter she was.
From what I can make out, there were two groups of McKays at Chimney corner. They were related to each other through their McLean wives: it's less clear how or if they were connected through the McKays. There is some doubt as to whether John McKay, aged 17 in 1818, was Hector's son or his nephew; it's also unclear whether the boy in the 1818 census was the same boy who was married to Flora McLean. I was hoping to find a marriage register of some sort, on the off chance that it might possibly have the name of at least John's father. I guess I'll keep looking.
Myrna
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Your welcome Myrna. Those further details will help us for identifying your Flora.
It is possible that Hector & John may not be father & son, but I believe they most likely are. Being that the names for Hector & John on the 1818 census both in Broad Cove and names listed one after the other would appear these two would reside beside each other, ennumerator going house to house in order of visitation. The land petitions mentioning a father son relationship with lots beside each other in Chimney Corner, Broad Cove looks to confirm this. Age off for John may be 1 and up to 2 years off dependant on when enumeration, birth and land petition dates fall. Considering the unreliability of ages on census makes the father & son relationship a good possibity. There are no McKays/MacKays found in the NS 1811 District census, so looks to be that Hector was the first settler in Chimney Corner making his first petition in 1811.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nscpbret/1811cen1.html
Land Petitions: Nova Scotia petitions 1769-1799 ~ Cape Breton Island petitions 1787-1843
1811
McKay, Hector
Petition to Nepean: Petitioner has recently arrived from Scotland. He asks a lot between Broad Cove and Margaree, known as Chimney Corner. Warrant issued.
Cape Breton no.: 728
NSARM microfilm: 15790
http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/databases/land/Results.asp?Search=margaree&SearchList1=all&Start=31
1825
McKay, John
Petition to Wallace: Petitioner is a native of Scotland, age 26, single. He asks a grant of loot 46, at Chimney Corner, Broad Cove. The lot, which adjoins his fathers's land, was laid off for him six years before. Note: There is no proof of statement. Petitioner's father has 400 acres. Note: approved for 100 acres.
Cape Breton no.: 3061
NSARM microfilm: 15799
Also of note, I searched with Chimney Corner for John McKay/MacKay. There was this one. You may want to see what further details are on the petitions at the Archives to identify if this one could be the same John MacKay's early petition or another John MacKay. He mentioned an earlier petition; however, date seems to be 9-10 years. Could it be that the earlier one was under MacKay as below and was not matched with MacKay or does it take that long to get approval, one asks, so an 1815 petition date would get approval abt 1819 for a 6 year later date. Hopefully the quoted documents contain more information and can substantiate it. However, we do know his son acquired the next lot and in 1818 census there are no other MacKays in Chimney Corner, besides a Hector & John so it must be his son who has the 1815 petition and lot beside Hector.
1815
MacKay, John
Petition to Swayne: Petitioner was born in Scotland. He asks a lot at Broad Cove adjoining that occupied by Hector McKay. Note: recommended
Cape Breton no.: 1222
NSARM microfilm: 15792
1817
MacKay, Hector
Petition to Ainslie: Petitioner emigrated from Scotland seven years before. He is married and has two children. He asks a lot between Margaree and Broad Cove. Note: recommended.
Cape Breton no.: 1718
NSARM microfilm: 15794
1820
McKay, Hector
Petition to Stewart: Petitioner and Donald McKay passed council for lots 47 & 48 at Broad Cove. Donald has since died, and petitioner asks a grant of the two lots. Report of Crawley to Crowdy: Lots 47 & 48 at the eastern extremity of Broad Cove, near Chimney Corner, 416 acres. Plan.
Cape Breton no.: 2448
NSARM microfilm: 15797
Linda
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Linda,
Wow! Thanks a lot for all that stuff. I will have to see how what I already know fits with what you have found. Based on ones I have seen for other places, I doubt the actual documents have much more information than you have quoted, but I will try to get my hands on them to make sure. It could take a really long time to have land petitions granted. One of my McLeans from the east coast of Cape Breton (Kennington Cove) applied for a grant in 1841, just before he got married. It wasn't actually approved until 1852 -- the first one for that district!
I agree that being next door to each other might indicate that John was closely related to Hector, but I'm not convinced that if he was only 17 he wouldn't still be living at home if he was the son.
My reason for thinking that John was Hector's nephew is that John and Flora called their first known son Donald, which, in the Scots naming tradition, would indicate that John's father was called Donald. In the same tradition, the second son would be called after his mother's father. John and Flora's second son was Hector, and we know Flora's father to have been called Hector. If John's father was called that, I would expect the first son to have been Hector, and the second boy to be called John, after his own father.
I had a look at an on-line transcript, which also shows a William McLean living beside John and Hector. I think this was probably the William McLean who was married to Hector's daughter. (We aren't sure what her name was but think it might have been Flora or Mary. McDougall calls her Miss McKay.) William McLean and "Miss McKay," not having any children of their own, are said to have been the source of the 900 acres farmed by John McKay and Flora McLean.
I guess the next step is to try to sort out the land records, in case there was more than one John McKay.
Myrna
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Hello Myrna
Your very welcome.
Hopefully from the grants you can identify more details on the petitioners, lot concessions/numbers - and identify whose who. Hopefully they remained on their lots and can be matched up with lot information on the 1851 census.
I have Scots also and in two cases of mine they did not follow the naming convention, throws you a loop it does.
Linda
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Hi Linda,
Do you know where I can access the 1851 census for Cape Breton? I was under the impression that those counties no longer exist. The only ones I have found were for the mainland Nova Scotia counties.
Myrna
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Hi Myrna
Sorry seems no 1851 for your area. The 1861 or possibly earlier ones
http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/databases/polltax/series23.asp
Did you know there are some cemetery transcriptions for McLeans in Whale Cove on this website:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nscpbret/cem83.html
Linda
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Hi Linda,
I haven't had much time to spend on my "dead people" the last few days: the ones that are still breathing have been taking up all my time.
Thanks for the tip about the cemetery list. I hadn't seen the web site, but I have been to the Whale Cove cemetery. Some of the McLeans there are directly connected to my husband's family, but I have yet to work out how or if the others are related. Some of the McKays there are also his, but the same "how/if/maybe" applies to them. ;D
Myrna
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good going, Linda...
this is is the only land record for William McLean.. n 1827
Petition to Kempt: Petitioner asks 400 acres at Chimney Corner, between Broad Cove and Marguerite; this in lieu of a like quantity surveyed for him at Lake Ainslie. Warrant issued.
also who was the Donald McKay who previously owned part of land with Hector...son? (ie: the other child mentioned ) or brother?
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I think Donald was Hector's brother or cousin. One of the land records that Linda quoted earlier has Hector reporting that Donald was deceased, leaving no children. If he was a son he might have been too young to have kids, but I haven't found any other records to substantiate this.
Myrna
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John was born circa 1799 Scotland, so a brother would have been well within child-rearing years. in 1820.../ but i'm I'm just trying to make you think, ;D
here's one for you...however reliable....
The FHS has a Pedigree Resource File submission that says this man, Donald McLean, born 1815 Scotland...is a brother to your Flora, as parents listed as Hector McLean & Mary McIntosh...
says immigrated in 1827...
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=26080&highlight=20
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Looking at the 1881 Do you know who the Margaret McKay belongs to who is living beside Your John & Flory & son William...May be a clue to more information
1881 image
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/e/e325/e008115150.pdf
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This is good JJ and thank you.
Myrna, this 1881 census is schedule 1 only. You would need to match the household number (227 in this case) with the same number in schedule 2. Schedule 2 would of had the house details, concession, lot, etc. Sadly it no longer exists for 1881. You will need to locate him in an earlier census or later 1891 if he is still alive and on the same property then use both schedules. Being able to identify your John MacKay's concession/lot will allow you hopefully to match it up with one of those 1815 and 1825 petitions.
Sub-sub-series consists of census returns for the 1881 Canadian census: For the year 1881, only a microfilm copy of the first schedule - nominal return of the living - is available.
In 1871 nine schedules were compiled - personal census; agricultural census; nominal return of the living; nominal return of deaths within the last twelve months; public institutions; real estate; vehicles and implements; cultivated land, field products and plants and fruits; livestock, animal products, homemade fabrics and furs; industrial establishments; products of the forest; shipping and fisheries; and mineral products. All nine schedules are available on microfilm. The returns are from Nova Scotia (Volumes 1182-1248, Microfilm Reels C-10395, C-10540 to C-10570). You would need to know which reel your place is on. There is a finding aid; however, it is not online.
Might be easier to find on the 1838 census. Chimney Corner - INVERNESS COUNTY NS - M-5220 .
Just ask at your public library for an interlibrary loan.
Linda
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There is a surname index to the 1871 census in print. It should help you identify the microfilm, I believe.
TITLE(S): Surname index to the 1871 census of Canada, Nova Scotia, Halifax County (excluding Halifax city)
PUBLISHER: Bridgewater, N.S. : Bridgewater Business & Information Services, c1995.
DESCRIPTION: v, 56 p. ; 28 cm.
NUMBERS: Canadiana: 960265325
ISBN: 1896381049
Linda
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Thanks for that J.J. My apologies for being so slow. I have been rather distracted lately, but I did manage to have a look at the census references you posted. I haven't been able to work out who Margaret was, but there was a Margaret McKay who was the owner of the second next farm to the north of John and Flora's. She was quite likely a relative, but I don't know which one.
I knew that Flora had at least a couple of brothers, but she died before 1901 and it didn't occur to me to check if any of the brothers were still living :P If they didn't get to Cape Breton until 1827, and she had kids born in 1829/30, it seriously narrows the possible range of marriage dates.
The William living next door to John and Flora was their son William. The men in this family who married did so quite late in life. The Hector who was married to "Fibe" was around 50 when his first kid was born. Lucky for me! It's a lot easier to identify their parents when they still live at home.
Myrna
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Linda,
Thanks for the note about the 1871 census schedules. I had another look at some notes I made from it several years ago. No new clues there, but I did find out where they were. I went and looked at the land records and the land grant map on the Nova Scotia government site www.gov.ns.ca/NATR/library/histmaps.htm
I think there must have been two different men named John McKay. The one in the 1817 land petition seems to have been a contemporary of Hector. On the land grant map, he has John McKay Sr, John McKay Jr. and Peter McKay. The line I'm looking for has no other men named Peter, so I think they must be two different lines, though it's probable that John Sr. was related to Hector.
The one in the 1825 petition was, most likely, Hector's son. I think he must be the one who was married to Flora McLean. Do you think it would be worthwhile to look up the farm in the land titles office? Would that give me the names of the people who have owned it over the years since it was granted?
Myrna
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Hello Myrna
They should give the owner; however, I haven't used that source for mine yet.
I was thinking if you got the concession and lot information from the 1825 land grant and could match it up with Part 2 of a census that includes your John & Flora would work. Part 2 of the census includes the property information. You use the Part one dwelling # and find the matching dwelling on part 2.
Linda
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Hi Linda,
I guess I will have to get hold of one of the census films again. Some time ago, on a trip to Ottawa, I wrote down all the information I could find from the 1871 census. When I looked at my old notes again today, I find that I don't have the lot and concession written down. I seem to recall that the location was not entered on the schedule, but I'll have to get the film again to be sure.
Thanks a lot for helping me look at this tribe again in a new light. I was almost ready to give up on them for a while, but I think I am ready to take them on again after all ;D
Myrna
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Hello, I can help you with the Hector Maclean you are talking about this is my great, great, great, great grandfather. I have the family history and tree from Isle of Rum and Coll Scotland for the Macleans. I have the Maclean family tree to 1400's Isle of Coll. Hector's father was Charles Maclean on Isle of Rum. Charles father was John Maclean whose Father was Charles Maclean from Coll Scotland. John Maclean had Allen and Charles. I am from Charles side. Hector had a wife Mary Mactonish from 1795-1891. Hector came to Canada in 1829 in 1830 his brother Alex came to Canada. if you need more information since I hold one of the largest data bases on all the Macleans and I have a rare book about the linage and history you can write to me.
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Wow! Thanks for this! I haven't worked on this line for a while, so it was a lovely surprise.
I think I have finally worked out which John MacKay married John the Banker MacLean's sister Flora (almost certainly Hector's son), but I would be delighted to know more about Flora's family. And there were almost certainly (still mostly only circumstantial evidence) two different lines of John MacKay/McKay's living next door to each other. The one right next to Hector was probably his son, with his hundred acres. On the other side of Hector was William McLean, son of Roderick McLean and Ann McIsaac. I believe he was married to Hector's daughter, but I'm not sure of her name - possibly Mary or Margaret. So, this is what I have about the McLeans:
1. William (m. Miss MacKay) was the son of Roderick, who was the son of Murdoch MacLean and Marion McQuarry. Murdoch's father was said to be the son of John Gobha McLean, born at Kilmory. Unfortunately, I don't know anything more than names for their wives.
2. Flora McLean and her brother John the Banker were the children of Hector McLean and Mary McIntosh, which is what I know of them. I believe Flora was the youngest of the family, born around 1800, possibly on Rum. I think there were 7 children altogether in the family.
3. In another line in the same area, I have Annie Jane McLean, b 1897, who was the daughter of Donald Hector (Dan) McLean and Christie Flora MacKay. Dan's parents were Norman McLean (son of Donald Ban McLean & Annie MacDonald) and Ann MacKay (daughter of James McKay and Catherine McLean); Christie's parents were John MacKay (son of Allan & Catherine?) & Catherine McMillan (daughter of Malcolm McMillan and Mary McLean).
I would be delighted to have anything you care to share about any of the Broad Cove/Chimney Corner/Lake Ainslie McLeans, but these are three of the lines I'm most interested in.
Myrna
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Hi Myrna;
Enclosed is a short piece on Hector in Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia and Macleans back to the 1500's. Also, my grandmother was a McQuarry. Yes, John the banker Maclean is Hector's son. See attachment. Maclean is my grandfather's mothers side. Also, the Macleans are related to the same Macleans in the movie, "A River Runs Through It!" I am also a Davidson and Maclean as the Rev. Maclean stayed in Pembina, Manitoba in 1889 where we had farms we purchased in the 1880's. Ok it looks like for some reason the Maclean tree from Coll is not working out as an attachment.
Andrew Kelly
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Thanks Andrew. I will have to study this and see where it takes me. I know that the Rev. Norman McLean went on to Australia, and/or New Zealand after Cape Breton. It is my understanding that NZ was his original destination, so I'm not quite sure how they ended up in Cape Breton. Some of the hardier souls apparently accompanied him on his further journey, but a lot of them had done enough travelling and elected to stay in Cape Breton.
Myrna
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Hi;
Wrong Maclean. This Maclean was from Pictou, Nova Scotia. Lauglin. Maclean son of Allen nephew to my great 10x grandfather Charles great grandson. Went to theology school in Nova Scotia then Manitoba then California then Montana. "A River Runs Through It" Bradd Pitt played the Rev son Paul Maclean my cousin. Craig Schaffer played Norman and Tom Skirett played Rev. Maclean.
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Hi;
Wrong Maclean. This Maclean was from Pictou, Nova Scotia. Lauglin. Maclean son of Allen nephew to my great 10x grandfather Charles great grandson. Went to theology school in Nova Scotia then Manitoba then California then Montana. "A River Runs Through It" Bradd Pitt played the Rev son Paul Maclean my cousin. Craig Schaffer played Norman and Tom Skirett played Rev. Maclean.
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Thanks for the correction. Told you it was hard to keep them straight! It was the Rev. Norman McLean who brought some of the 1830-ish McLeans from Rum to Cape Breton, though.
I have never seen that movie, but I might have to now.
Myrna
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Hi;
Wrong Maclean this one was born and raised in Pictou, Nova Scotia marries my other cousin Clara Davidson from Pembinan Manitoba.
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Hi Andrew,
I appreciate all your help and all the information, but I think we seem to have got off track here. I am interested in the McLeans, but I was actually looking for John McKay and his family in this thread. I mainly included his wife Flora McLean so we could tell which John McKay I was looking for.
I am still trying to find the marriage record of John McKay and Flora McLean, hoping it might by some miracle contain the name of John's father. I know they were married around 1825-30, and I have the names of their children (most of them were still living at home in 1871!), but I have been unable to go back any further than John and Flora with any certainty. They were undoubtedly from Rum, and the 1764 (I think) census from there has only one McKay family with a Hector of the right age to be the one in the 1818 Cape Breton census. However, I have been unable to prove a connection between Flora McLean's John and any of his predecessors.
Thanks again for the help with the McLeans.
Myrna
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Hi;
Yes, Flora is from Rum as far as I know Hector came with all his children. I am from Donald Maclean. One of many Hector's sons. Beyond who she married or certificates. Good luck found this just an FYI
Hector MacLean
Born [date unknown] in Isle of Rum, Invernessshire, Scotland
Son of Charles MacLean and Flora MacLean
Brother of Alexander MacLean andAllan MacLean
Husband of Mary (MacIntosh) MacLean — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Father of Donald MacLean, Kenneth MacLean, John MacLean andCharles MacLean
Died before July 3, 1855 in Margaree, Inverness County, Nova Scotia
Profile manager: George MacLean
The first MacLean to settle at Whale Cove was Hector, who was born in the Isle of Rum, Scotland. He was married in Scotland to Mary McIntosh and had a family of seven, all of whom came here with their parents, except one daughter who went to Australia. Hector (the father) purchased 347 acres of land at Whale Cove which he divided among his three sons, John, Donald and Kenneth. He bought another adjacent lot for his fourth son Charles.
Will
Hector's will was signed November 6 1834 but only probated July 3 1855.
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Did either of the John McKay's mentioned here have a son named Peter McKay that later moved to NFLD? I am stuck trying to trace back past Peter McKay born in Chimney Cove, Cape Breton in 1829 married to Catherine MacIsaac.
Any help is appreciated!!
Thanks.
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There were two Peter MacKay's I know of that were associated with this family, but I don't think either of them went to Newfoundland. John, father of Peter at #1, below, was born about 1790 in Rum, and appears to have been the son of another Peter, b abt 1757, also in Rum, son of Donald MacKay and Janet/Gunnet MacKinnon.
1. Peter, son of John & Flora/Ann MacKay b 1820 in Rum, Scotland d 1890 Chimney Corner, Cape Breton had a wife called Margaret and sons called Edward, John (b 1848 Margaree Harbour), and Neil (b 1853 in Cape Mabou).
2. Peter b 1885, son of John b 1848, above, and Mary MacKay, daughter of Donald & Isabella MacKay.
The other John, son of Hector, who was in the 1818 census, doesn't appear to have had any sons or grandsons or great-grandsons called Peter.
Sorry I can't help more.