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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: jetilley on Sunday 30 January 05 18:38 GMT (UK)
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can anybody help please
robert kelly born about 1833 ireland m ann broadly, had a son robert kelly born 1851 ireland who married jane reynolds born 1852 tollcross scotland , they married in 1873,
children
patrick 1873
sarah ann 1874
ellen 1876
ann 1877
robert 1979
catherine 1881 died 1896
hugh 1884
john 1886
william 1888
joseph 1889
rose 1891 died 1894
francis 1893
grace 1994
can anyone help with info on the above mainly where in ireland robert was born.
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Hi ! Know this was posted a long time ago - but your Jane Reynolds was my great grandfather's sister! He was Joseph the youngest Reynolds, (born1868) who married Ellen McDermott in Omoa/Cleland, Lanarkshire. This was in Shotts parish, though not actually Shotts village.
Sorry - don't know anything about Roberts origins in Ireland! - but know tracing there is a minefield, I spent a week in the Dublin records and found just about nothing specific! - I enjoyed the chat mind! That was just last month!
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Jane,
I too have Reynolds family from Shotts Parish. Great Great Grandfather.
1881 Census as follows.
John Reynolds head aged 46.
Mary A. Reynolds (Mullen) aged 45.
Thomas aged 21.
John aged 16.
Lizzie aged 13.
Jane aged 11.
Patrick aged 9 -- My Grandfather have photo.
George aged 7
Joseph aged 5
James aged 3 -- I have a baby photo of him
Any of these connect with you.?
James.
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Hello James!
My Reynolds family were first seen in Scotland, on the 1951 census in Shettleston, as a young couple (?24 If i remember correctly) - with a 1 year old son William - as far as I am aware - the eldest. In the usual way they had a bunch of kids, 'til Joseph was born in 1868, about the 8th from memory. They were still in Eastmuir Shetleston in 1871, But by 1881, the parents and younger brothers and sisters ( as well as som of the married elder ones) were in and around Omoa square Clelland.
Your John, if 46 in 1881, would appear to be too old to be a sibling of my great grand father, Joseph Reynolds. But perhaps he could be a younger brother of their father, Patrick Reynolds!
I have always wondered why they might have come to Shotts area, after more than 20 years in Shettleston - perhaps part of the reason was because he already had family there!
Do you know your John's parents details (from his death cert.)? Do you know where about in Ireland ( I assume he came from Ireland!) he came from??
Jane
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Jane,
I live in this area today and know the history of the place, our Irish ancestors came to Scotland for work, settling first in Greenock and Glasgow where they landed. There was a lot of Coal and Ironstone mining in the East end of Glasgow, Shettleston area and they lived in the cheap Tenements in the Gallowgate which connects to Shettleston. From there they followed the work to Lanarkshire Coal fields in Shotts Parish, Whiterigg and Longriggend, and the Stirlingshire Coal fields in Limerigg, Slamannan, Westfield and Avonbridge. Coal Mines had a limited life, apart from the Coal seam running out, if they hit a serious fault underground then that was the end of operations, so they would move on to the next Coal Mine.
There is quite a lot of history online for Omoah which was a busy place back then with a lot of employment in the Coal Mines and Iron Works and Railways.
My Great Grandfather John Reynolds worked in all these industries, his father was James Reynolds and his mother was Mary Kelly. To the best of my knowledge this family came from County Tyrone, Clonfichle Parish. I visited my relatives there in the 1950s when my mother (Jane Reynolds) took me to Ireland to visit her Aunts and Cousins. I went back 2 years ago and the families are still there in Armagh, Dungannon, Benburb and Lurgan. Over there the families are Donnelly, McCrystal, McCusker, Curran.
James.
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Hi James, I'm guessing that these are 2 separate families! Jane Reynolds (born 52), eldest sister of my great grandfather Joseph ( born 68) was the daughter of Patrick & Ellen (Connelly) Reynolds, and the parents were born in the 'Glens of Antrim' villages of Carnlough & Cushendall - Patrick in 23, Ellen in 27. I even have dates of birth for them, from a distant family member - though I don't know if this is by word of mouth thru' the generations, or if he found church baptismal records to confirm the dates! All I know is that when I searched the likely parish records in Dublin - I could not find any corroborating evidence!
Course I could not find records for any (well hardly any) of my irish ancestors ( that is all my ancestors!) - they all left Ireland too early, mainly by the very early 50's, if not before! Most parish records start in about 1850, some a bit earlier, but few as early as the 20's & 30's when many of my ancestors would have been born in Ireland!
Interesting to see you have Curran ancestors - I do too - one of the ones I have no evidence for where they came from! I have a Thomas Curran who married Mary Jane Lam(m)ont in Wishaw in 1872. I have not been able to find him definitively, even on the census of the previous year!
Nice to speak to you any way - I would be interested in where you found info on Omoa - as many of my mum's relatives were there for 2-3 generations, and I guess in a way, though I never lived there myself, I feel that is the nearest place to 'home' for me!
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Jane,
Read this while I dig out more intersting stuff, I topok some photos down there some time ago for another forumite.
James.
1797-1866: Omoa Iron Works is erected on Cleland estate by Colonel William Dalrymple on returning to civilian life. Colonel Dalrymple’s uncle, Hew, left him the Fordal estate in Mid-Lothian, and Cleland estate in Bothwell and Shotts parishes.
At first there was only one furnace at Omoa, employing about 40 miners, 40 smelters and other workmen, and 12 horses. The furnace consumed nine tons of calcined ironstone per day, with casts every eighteen hours, yielding about two tons of pig-iron each cast.
Omoa claimed to be the second oldest iron works in Scotland (to Wilsontown). Originally prospering enough to create the new community of Omoa Town, the Omoa Works suffered a downturn through several changes in ownership and a slump in trade following the outbreak of Civil War in America in 1861. Omoa Works would change proprietors several times, the last being to Robert Stewart, Esq., of Murdoston. Shortly after the death of Robert Stewart in 1866 (see later), operations ceased, with the furnaces eventually becoming ruins.
The procurement of ironstone for the Iron Works was reported as follows:
An interesting circumstance connected with the early history of Omoa, and perhaps applicable to other iron-works at the same period, was the scarcity of ironstone and how it was procured. Any balls found in a stream, or cropping-out by its margin, were carefully collected, and in the case of Omoa, ironstone was collected in streams or otherwise by farmers and others in the neighbourhood, and taken to the ironworks and sold - many a ton went from Shotts parish in this way. The transaction was never called in question, but if practised at the present day, would be called thieving.
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Jane,
A lot of useful links here on Rootschat.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=irg2khrg1ve10djuouruta2li3&topic=216619.0
James.
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Hi Jane,
Thomas Curran and Mary Jane Lamont were my g.g.grandparents. I've been trying, with very little knowledge of the best approach to take, to find out where he came from in Ireland. I've only seen the Scottish wedding certificate and census entries thereafter.
I have a few clues from relatives. My gran believed that "he was from Ireland - right at the top of Ireland"and a great aunt thinks that he was from Antrim and lived on the coast.
I believe that two of his daughters married McConnachies in Lanarkshire and my gran thought that Thomas Curran knew Michael McConnachie (their father) in Ireland before they both moved to Lanarkshire and ended up living in Omoa Square, Cleland. The McConnachie's seem to have moved to Lanarkshire from the Lurgan area.
I hope this might be of some help.
Steve
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Hi Steve!
They are my great great grand parents too! Their daughter Catherine married Henry Duffy in Omoa Square/Cleland, and they are my Great grand parents! Their son Joseph (born 1895) is my beloved granda!
How are you related to Thomas and Mary Jane Lamont ? I have found many fellow researchers related to my dad's side of the family, and equally I have found people on my maternal grand mother's side, the Reynolds and McDermotts, who are burrowing away, researching our common pasts. But you are the first person I have come across researching on my mum's fathers side of the family!
Although I have found out little - well nothing really! - about Thomas Curran, I have managed to find out a lot about Mary Jane's ancestors if you are interested??
The only thing I have been able to trace about Thomas and Mary Jane, before the marriage, is a possible entry on the census in West Calder, at 18 Baker Street, with a wife mary, and a 5 month old daughter catherine. The names are all right, but Thomas is given as english!
Could this be them, they could have been living together before they married at the Wishaw church (St Ignatius - my local!) in February 1872. Interestingly Mary Jane is not on the census with her parents 1n 1871 either, so it would fit in, but really it is just an idea!?
Any way - Ive just remembered that I have a birth cert for Catherine in December 1873! But then again, she could have been named after a previously deceased sibling of the same name! I guess we will never know!
It was Ellen & Mary Jane Curran ( daughters) who married the McConnachie brothers ( Michael & Arthur) - what you say sounds very possible, about knowing the McConnachies from ireland - a good direction to be investigating in!
Hope to hear from you again
Jane
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Hi Jane
IGI shows the mother of the baby Catherine that you have found as a possible on the 1871 census as Mary GRAY:
CATHERINE CURIN Birth: 16 OCT 1870 West Calder
Parents: THOMAS CURIN and MARY GRAY
Another daughter, Mary Jane born to this couple on 01 JUN 1872 in West Calder. Your Catherine, daughter of Thomas and Mary (Lamont) born on 25 DEC 1872 Shotts, Lanark.
Monica :)
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Hi Jane
Thanks for the offer of information about the Lamonts, I'd be very grateful and haven't started looking on that side yet.
I'm related to the Currans/Lamonts on my mum's side. My grandparents (her parents) were first cousins - Ellen (Ella) being the daughter of Edward Curran, and Edward (Eddie) being the son of Ellen Curran and Arthur McConnachie; as you probably know, Edward and Ellen were children of Thomas and Mary Jane.
Tracing the McConnachie's has been very easy but not so the Currans in Ireland, so I was about to switch to the Lamonts..
I started looking into the Curran roots because my mum has a picture of Thomas Curran (or at least we think it's him). I'll post a photo of it if you're interested?
Thanks again
Steve
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Yes I would be very interested!
Although I have traced my family back pretty much as far as you can go - bearing in mind that they all came over from Ireland, and that records for the catholic masses were just about non existent, I have very few pictures back past my grandparents.
If you make one more post here, that is a third post, I will be able to send you aprivate messages and my email address to ease communication.
Hope to hear from you soon!
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1 RC baptism showing on SP
BORN -20/02/1876 BAP[T. - 24/03/1876 CURRAN ROSE ANN - THOMAS CURRAN/MARY LAMOND AT HAMILTON, ST MARY'S
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Hi Jane
I'm sure that we have photos of Catherine's siblings Ellen and Edward Curran in their later years. I'll dig them out next time I visit my mum and send you a copy of them and the picture of Thomas.
Steve
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Hi
I am reading with interest your posts about Omoa in Clelland which is the next village to where I live and my gr grandparents lived there they lived in the square which my Mum was just talking about tonight she used to vist her grandfather grandpa Dowler as she always calls him my gran Rose Dowler was born not far from the square .
Also my gr gr grandmother on my Dads side was Catherine Curran born 1852 in Donegal .
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High, Chesapek, I have relatives on my mum's side going back to the 1851 census, living at Omoa square (Duffy), and most other branched were in Omoa by the 1880's. I too live close to Omoa square, in Wishaw - though in my childhood I lived in the south of England, and even worse, I was born in Shotts!! I wonder if your Catherine Curran could be a sister of my Thomas Curran. Do you have her parents names ? I do have Thomas' parental details from his death cert. My maternal great grand parents were, on the male side, Duffy and Curran, for neither of which do I know where they originated, and on the maternal side, McDermott and Reynolds. The McDermotts were from Lismacarol in Derry, and the Reynolds were from Carnlough and Cushendall on the Antrim coast.
I assume there will be Duffys, Currans, McDermotts and Reynolds in what is now known as Cleland, who are not so distant relatives of mine!
Jane
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Hi Jane
I don't know anymore about Catherine other than shw married Francis Newlands and they had 15 children I do have lots of info on the children which have links with America which I think half the population at that time had .
I do have a picture of her and I would love to find out more about her was Thomas born in Donegal ?
I noticed another name you are looking for which is Burke my gr gr grandfather Francis mothers maiden name was De Burgh but in some documents she is referred to as Burke they came from Carlton in Glasgow .There could be links somewhere along this tree .
It was my Gran on my mums side that was born in Auckinlee in Celland
and then lived in Omoa Sq she was Rosie Dowler does that name ring a bell? her Mum came from Longford in Ireland .Also did you know anyone in Shotts with the name McKeown .
I could be here all night I have been doing this for a while now and get so engrossed .
Mulvey was a name my mum remembered from the square
Ree
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Hi Jane
I have found out the names of Catherine Currans parents they were Patrick Curran and Jane Campbell could the be the parents of Thomas
Ree
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Hi Ree
I think that Thomas' parents were Thomas Curran and Jane Curran (nee Fox)
Thanks
Steve
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Hi Ree
Yes I agree with Steve - Thomas' parents were Thomas Curran & Jane Fox - this being from Thomas' death certificate!
Shame - not the same family it would seem.
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Hi Jane/Steve
Possibly not brother and sister but do you know where Thomas lived they maybe related my gr gr grandmother Catherine Curran came from Donegal but lived in Uddingston but had extended family in Hamilton and Blantyre
Ree
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Hi Ree
I'm a bit late with this, but I know McKeowns from Shotts. All one family (mine!). I'm intruiged as to why you're asking and have information from way back.
Regards
K
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Hi i am researching my great Grandad John Kelly who married Mary Ann Hughes in calderwood in 1916 and lived in Shotts. They had Annie, John (my Grandad) Rosie, Margaret and Edward. Mary Ann died in the 20s. John lived until 1968. Have researched as much as i can but cannot establish where John was born, whether it be Ireland or New York.
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Hi there :)
What were John's details on his marriage registration in 1919? His age, full parents' names, father's occupation etc. Anything that could held identify him with his family.
Monica
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Not too long until 1921 census is released
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That is true...keep on forgetting it is now due in some months ::)
Monica
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Hi i am researching my great Grandad John Kelly who married Mary Ann Hughes in calderwood in 1916 and lived in Shotts. They had Annie, John (my Grandad) Rosie, Margaret and Edward. Mary Ann died in the 20s. John lived until 1968. Have researched as much as i can but cannot establish where John was born, whether it be Ireland or New York.
Marriage on SP
KELLY
JOHN
&
HUGHES
MARY ANN
1916
626/B 22
Calderhead
Death of Mary Ann
KELLY
MARY ANN
38
1934
626/B 8
Calderhead
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Thanks for that. I have no information when John Kelly arrived in Scotland. I know the Hughes came over in 1880 from co. Monaghan and they had Maggie, Thomas, Owen and Mary Ann.
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Who were recorded as John Kelly's parents on his marriage record and what age was he?
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John Kellys parents were John kelly and Rose Mohan. He was married in 1916 in calderwood and his mother was deceased by then. His age was put down as 28. His fathers occupation was Shoemaker which is a puzzle as on his death certificate it was Police officer. We do not think His parents were in Scotland at the time, they were in Ireland or New York.
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Were family members witnesses at the wedding?
What was John's address in 1916?
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There were no family witnesses at the wedding. Johns address at that time was 92 Hamilton street, Shotts. Thanks for this.
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Can't see that address on 1915/1920 V.R.s
What address was their first child born at?
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Sancti,
The Marriage extract for St Patricks Shotts has this information.
24 August 1916, priest Robert Paterson
John Kelly, parents James Kelly and Rose Mohan
Mary Ann Hughes, parents Francis Hughes and Anne Daly,witnesses were James Sullivan and Ellen Smith
and in the margin of the record it states Kellys Bap;could not be got.
Cheers
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Thanks Lud
I think Hamilton Street was a row of houses on Torbothie Road
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Thank you. I have a copy of marriage certificate and i can't see a James as the father, it says John and John of death certificate. Where did you see this? TIA
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Hello,
this information for St Patricks Shotts was gleaned from the FindMyPast website ,and was written in Latin by the parish scribe, here is a transcription of the male names Joannem Kelly 24 August 1916, Father Joannis Kelly,
mother Rosae Mohan,spouse Mariam Anam Hughes,father Francisci Hughes,mother Annae Daly,
Latin can be a bit confusing ???
Good Luck
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Hello,
this information for St Patricks Shotts was gleaned from the FindMyPast website ,and was written in Latin by the parish scribe, here is a transcription of the male names Joannem Kelly 24 August 1916, Father Joannis Kelly,
mother Rosae Mohan,spouse Mariam Anam Hughes,father Francisci Hughes,mother Annae Daly,
Latin can be a bit confusing ???
Good Luck
I agree, it certainly was for me at high school 50 years ago ;D
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Latin can be a bit confusing ???
Yes and no :) It's all extremely logical once you know the rather arcane basic rules.
In the nominative, the given names are Latinised
John -> Joannes
Francis -> Franciscus
Mary -> Maria
Rose/a -> Rosa
Ann(e)/a -> Anna
When you plug them into a Latin sentence you have to alter the endings to conform to the rules of Latin grammar.
In the case of the couple being married, the names go into the accusative
So Joannes -> Joannem
Maria -> Mariam
Anna -> Annam
The parents' names go into the genitive
Joannes -> Joannis
Rosa -> Rosae
Franciscus -> Francisci
Anna -> Annae
I'm very glad that I studied Latin at school (even longer ago than sancti!) because it has been incredibly useful all my life in science, genealogy and foreign languages.
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Ecce Romani ;D
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Wow, thank you so much!! They stopped Latin classes in 3rd year at my school.
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I am very, very, late arriving at this thread.
I am keen to link up with 'Janettepain' and 'edinburgh86' as I am distantly related to both.
Mary Jane Lamont was my GreatGrandfather's Sister. His name was John Lamont (1840-1905) and he lived in or near Ballycastle, in North Antrim. He is buried in Culfeightrin Church, near Ballycastle.
My records indicate that John was born in the Mull of Kintyre while his sisters, Catherine b.1842, Mary Jane b.1847 and Rose Ann b.1847 (?) were born in Airdrie. Another sister, Margaret b.1849 (died 1855), as well as brothers, Daniel b.1852, Francis b.1857 and Bernard b. 1855 were born in Shotts. Some or all died in Omoa Square.
If anyone has anything to add or correct, please let me know. I think that some of these dates may not be accurate, but have yet to check them on the extensive (and impressive) Scottish resources online.
I will be returning to my study of my Scottish roots shortly; I am currently entangled in another breach of the family.
I would be interested in hearing from anyone with links to Shotts in the years 1840 - 1905.
many thanks.
John
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Only one birth for a Francis Lamont c1857
LAMONT
FRANCIS
Mother's name
FLOYD
Male
1858
611 / 126
RICCARTON, Ayrshire
No births for a Bernard Lamont 1855
No deaths for a Margaret 1855
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There is this possible death for Margaret in 1855:
MARGARET LAMMOND
Age 6
Mother's maiden name DARRACH
1855
Rf 655 / 97
Shotts
Monica
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Good find Monica
RC baptisms
LAMOND
CATHRINE
DANIEL LAMOND / CATHRINE DARAGH
FEMALE
3/4/1842
17/4/1842
AIRDRIE, ST MARGARET'S
LAMOND
ROSANNE
DANIEL LAMOND / CATHARINE DARROCH
FEMALE
11/5/1846
11/5/1846
AIRDRIE, ST MARGARET'S
LAMOND
MARY JANE
DANIEL LAMOND / CATHARINE DARROCH
FEMALE
11/5/1846
11/5/1846
AIRDRIE, ST MARGARET'S
LAMOND
FRANCIS
DANIEL LAMOND / CATHERINE DUNACH
MALE
14/6/1857
HAMILTON, ST MARY'S
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Statutory birth
LAMOND
FRANCIS
Mother's name
DARROCH
Male
1857
655 / 142
SHOTTS
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There's a RC marriage of Bernard Lamont to Catherine McColl in 1876 in Holytown.
The 1861 census lists in Omoa Square Daniel Lammond, 48, coal miner, born Ireland with wife Catherine, 45 and son John, 21, both born Southend, Argyll; Catherine, 19 and Mary Jane, 14, both born in Airdrie; Daniel, 9, Bernard, 6, and Francis, 3, all born Shotts.
As the census was taken on 7 April 1861, Bernard would have had his 6th birthday between 8 April 1860 and 7 April 1861, so he is more likely to have been born in 1854 than in 1855.
You can view the originals of all these documents at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for a small fee.
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Francis's life looks to have got complicated as an adult.
He was admitted into an asylum ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartwood_Hospital ) early Dec 1897 and discharged the following year. His sister Mary Curran is mentioned in his Poor Law notes. Also from these notes, it states "he appears to be of drunken habits". Source is the North Lanarkshire, Scotland, Poor Law Applications and Registers, 1849-1917
He is living with her in 1901. Working as a coal miner and unmarried.
He died the following year.
Monica
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Airdrie & Coatbridge Advertiser October 1897
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Hamilton Herald October 1890
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LAMOND
BERNARD
Son of
DAN LAMOND / CATHERINE DAROCH
MALE
Born 24/4/1854
Bapt. 7/5/1854
At
HAMILTON, ST MARY'S
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The marriage shows on CoS records
LAMOND
DAN
and
CATHERINE DARROCH
24/08/1839
532
20 / 164
SOUTHEND
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Hello John (JLamont),
It’s been some time since I was last on this site and have re-registered as I was previously using a work email address.
I guess that you may have been in contact with Jane?
I’ve not managed to find out where my Curran ancestors lived before moving to Cleland / Shotts in Lanarkshire. As relatives have said that it was on the Antrim coast, I’m wondering whether your mention of Ballycastle may be a clue?
Best
Steve